Mega Thread Brett Ratten

[blue gunslinger]

Re: Time to go Ratts

As much as I love Mick and everything he has done for us, his biggest "failure"- for lack of a better word was that he never had a PLAN B.

His Plan A was very good and predictable in that everyone knew it inside and out and it was drilled into the playing group to maintain that discipline.

When Plan A was not working, there was no possibility of changing it up because the playing group knew nothing else other than to maintain the discipline and stick to the structures. It was very rigid but I guess Mick also had the personnel who had the mental capacity to not waver from Plan A even when things looked bad or going downhill.

Obviously everyone knows that his Plan A revolves around strict usage of the boundary only with little to zero usage of the centre corridor simply because of his belief that "the boundary line is your friend"- rightly or wrongly.

I'm not certain a team like Carlton would have the discipline to adhere to such a rigid and disciplined structure. You guys have alot of skilled, pacy types who enjoy the freedom of space, rather than being stuck and confined to one area of the ground where space is limited and contested footy is premium, with a strong focus on stoppages.

Would be interesting to see if he would go around again at another club if another club came calling.

you know how a coach would fix that-clean out those who don't follow instructions or don't have the skills mentally or physically to adapt

 

[The Coach]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

I see the argument that nobody would hire Ratten if he wasn't at Carlton. This is a pretty accurate statement, I admit. However it is lacking in perspective.

Let's look at the coaches.

Buckley - would any other club go after him right now if he wasn't at the Pies? Doubtful as the jury is still out over whether he is improving or diminishing what Mick built.

B Scott - wouldn't get a job anywhere else once North boots him.

Hird - maybe, has good assistants around him right now though.

C Scott - yes.

Clarkson - doubtful.

Hardwick - a few weeks ago ... no, now maybe he has shown he is building something. Early days.

McCartney - still unproven, doubt he would be snapped up if he leaves the Dogs.

Longmire - probably yes.

Neeld - no.

Watters - not sure, unproven.

Sanderson - yes.

Primus - no.

Worsfold - has been to the top to the bottom and heading up again. Unsure if he would be snapped up by another club if he found himself out of a job. Things change quickly.

Lyon - last year, in demand. This year, he's at his last club.

McKenna - no.

Sheedy - no.

Voss - no.

Most coaches wouldn't be snapped up if they were out of a job. Very few coaches who don't win premierships do get snapped up for another shot at it. Some like Eade or Wallace get a longer amount of time because they take charge of sides not rated and they achieve some decent finishing places but they are an exception to the rule.

You are wrong about Clarkson and pretty creative with some. Buckley and Worsfold dont have much to worry about. There are only 3 definite NO's - Voss (becoming a spin Dr like Ratts), Brett Scott and Sheeds (due to Age as much as anything)
Neeld and Primus are in the same boat as Ratts - could have long term futures with a stellar second half year. (With his contract Lyon already has one - and you write him off prematurely)
You may say most are writing Ratts off prematurely but he is not in Roos class. If you could get a Porsche would you keep your Mazda?

 

[Big Red is back]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

You are wrong about Clarkson and pretty creative with some. Buckley and Worsfold dont have much to worry about. There are only 3 definite NO's - Voss (becoming a spin Dr like Ratts), Brett Scott and Sheeds (due to Age as much as anything)
Neeld and Primus are in the same boat as Ratts - could have long term futures with a stellar second half year. (With his contract Lyon already has one - and you write him off prematurely)
You may say most are writing Ratts off prematurely but he is not in Roos class. If you could get a Porsche would you keep your Mazda?

Pies secured bucks as assistant to stop him coaching north.

Clarkson would have no problem getting another gig.

 

[The Coach]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

I guess we need to go out and get someone like Neeld who was taught by Malthouse, yet has still been labelled by the media and BF experts as the wrong choice. Shame he didn't outcoach Essendon's trillion dollar coaching panel on the smell of an oily rag.

Ross Lyon was supposed to be a huge loss for the Saints. They'd be pretty damn happy with Watters doing more for less money.

Criticising coaching appointments is as easy as criticising recruiters.

You mean Watters and Laidley

It is easy to criticisize coaches - you perform or you are replaced. Give a builder the materials and he doesn't finish your house - you get another one

We will have to see how Essendon bounce back - we have been bouncing like a football with no bladder

 

[Stamos]

Interesting discussion between Gerard Whately and Stan Alves on The Sunday Inquisition.
They said we rely on talent to win games. Our talent is great, and when they're on we can beat anyone. But when the talent is missing, either through injury or having an off day, we don't have the structure to cover for them.

I've been a supporter of Ratts, but I find it hard to disagree with the above. And that seems a pretty damning indictment.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Interesting discussion between Gerard Whately and Stan Alves on The Sunday Inquisition.
They said we rely on talent to win games. Our talent is great, and when they're on we can beat anyone. But when the talent is missing, either through injury or having an off day, we don't have the structure to cover for them.

I've been a supporter of Ratts, but I find it hard to disagree with the above. And that seems a pretty damning indictment.

so in a similar idea if Buddy did not play yesterday another player would have kicked that bag full regardless?

 

[Big Red is back]

so in a similar idea if Buddy did not play yesterday another player would have kicked that bag full regradless?

Hawks were decimated with injuries last year and lost prelim by a kick, they did this due to game plan and structure.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

You are wrong about Clarkson and pretty creative with some. Buckley and Worsfold dont have much to worry about. There are only 3 definite NO's - Voss (becoming a spin Dr like Ratts), Brett Scott and Sheeds (due to Age as much as anything)
Neeld and Primus are in the same boat as Ratts - could have long term futures with a stellar second half year. (With his contract Lyon already has one - and you write him off prematurely)
You may say most are writing Ratts off prematurely but he is not in Roos class. If you could get a Porsche would you keep your Mazda?

With due respect Five, I reckon you may have taken the plot and hurled it into thick underbrush here.

Firstly, I didn't say anything about writing Ratts off prematurely. I even conceded he would not be snapped up by another club.

The contention is that most of those coaches would not be snapped up by another club if their employment was to end today. I stand by that.

Clarkson has been in the gun since winning the flag in 2008 and is thought to have underperformed with his list. The Hawks have still underwhelmed despite being flag favourites this year and Clarkson has copped a bit from his own supporters. I am not sure that clubs are lining up to poach him at the minute.

Buckley and Worsfold don't have anything to worry about at their clubs right now, but the question is whether other clubs would hire them as senior coaches as we talk. Buckley is a rookie coach and the Pies are not exactly heading the ladder and playing at their optimum. Worsfold is doing well now but was all but gone 18 months ago in the minds of some.

Would any other club hire Neeld, Primus or Lyon were they available today?

It was a specific question I was addressing, not a personal rating of those coaches.

 

[Stamos]

so in a similar idea if Buddy did not play yesterday another player would have kicked that bag full regardless?

I don't think Hawthorn is the best example, given that I would argue they similarly rely on talent, but take out Buddy's 13 goals and the Hawks still win by 5 goals. North are rubbish.

West Coast and Collingwood are the teams to compare to. They both have lots of injuries, but are able to well cover them.

 

[DJMacca]

so in a similar idea if Buddy did not play yesterday another player would have kicked that bag full regardless?

Nope, but at least they wouldn't have lost by 10 goals. And at least they put in an effort.

 

[mike ockerts]

I don't think Hawthorn is the best example, given that I would argue they similarly rely on talent, but take out Buddy's 13 goals and the Hawks still win by 5 goals. North are rubbish.

West Coast and Collingwood are the teams to compare to. They both have lots of injuries, but are able to well cover them.[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^
F***in THIS

 

[The Coach]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

With due respect Five, I reckon you may have taken the plot and hurled it into thick underbrush here.

Firstly, I didn't say anything about writing Ratts off prematurely. I even conceded he would not be snapped up by another club.

The contention is that most of those coaches would not be snapped up by another club if their employment was to end today. I stand by that.

Clarkson has been in the gun since winning the flag in 2008 and is thought to have underperformed with his list. The Hawks have still underwhelmed despite being flag favourites this year and Clarkson has copped a bit from his own supporters. I am not sure that clubs are lining up to poach him at the minute.

Buckley and Worsfold don't have anything to worry about at their clubs right now, but the question is whether other clubs would hire them as senior coaches as we talk. Buckley is a rookie coach and the Pies are not exactly heading the ladder and playing at their optimum. Worsfold is doing well now but was all but gone 18 months ago in the minds of some.

Would any other club hire Neeld, Primus or Lyon were they available today?

It was a specific question I was addressing, not a personal rating of those coaches.

I did not say "you did say" I said "you may say" - I have to admit to anticipating a reply of "how can you say I am writing Lyon off prematurely and yet you are not writing Ratts off prematurely"

I say, I say

I admit to me 'being a little creative' in my post in terms of Neeld and Primus

As far as hiring today - there are couple of clubs who would happily swap for Clarkson, Buckley and Worsfold right now, if you could wave your magic wand

 

[Big Red is back]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

I did not say "you did say" I said "you may say" - I have to admit to anticipating a reply of "how can you say I am writing Lyon off prematurely and yet you are not writing Ratts off prematurely"

I say, I say

I admit to me 'being a little creative' in my post in terms of Neeld and Primus

As far as hiring today - there are couple of clubs who would happily swap for Clarkson, Buckley and Worsfold right now, if you could wave your magic wand

Where can I get that wand, funny enough Pratt had one just hope we can find it.

 

[thylacine60]

Try the same dark place the rest of your efforts come from.

 

[Big Red is back]

Try the same dark place the rest of your efforts come from.

Clearly you have a lower expectation of the team than I.

It's all relative I guess.

Top 4 or bust let's see how this unfolds.

 

[mediumsizered]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

You goto Judd and yet you sidestep 3 I have directly mentioned, see what I mean about accountability. Judd has been great, now open your eyes and be honest as to the rest.

Warnock I am confident will repay us in spades. His ruckwork at the end of last season was a taste of what to expect from him & I have no doubt he will be a major asset to us for a number of years.

I can fully understand why the club went after McLean. It was to provide a strong bodied midfielder to do the grunt work that Judd was doing when he first arrived at the club. Unfortunately things haven't panned out as the club had hoped with McLean, but at least his efforts on the training track & in the VFL have set a good example for the youngsters on our list.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

As far as hiring today - there are couple of clubs who would happily swap for Clarkson, Buckley and Worsfold right now, if you could wave your magic wand

Given a choice of what they have and those coaches, I agree.

Some might take Clarkson on the basis of the 08 flag as runs on the board, same for Worsfold. I see absolutely no reason why a club would want Buckley right now as he is a rookie coach, who has endured some criticism and it is all ahead of him. He didn't exactly go out and explore the world to get his coaching credentials either.

In all honesty, I would take Worsfold because he has been up the mountain, fallen and climbed up again, because he is tough and most of all, because I think he was a fantastic assistant coach for us and wish he had have stayed on.

 

[Piesnchess]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

To all you Blueboys wanting Malthouse as your next coach, I would think again if I were you. It took him ten years with his boring boundary line gameplan to finally get us a flag, and he stuffed up bigtime in the GF last year by playing unfit players on the day. HIs tactics on that day were shocking actually, Cats too good, but he didnt help the cause. Id leave him be in his golden years, as a grandad, and look to a younger bloke if I were you. Someone like Alan Richardson might be the go.?

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

In all honesty, I would take Worsfold because he has been up the mountain, fallen and climbed up again, because he is tough and most of all, because I think he was a fantastic assistant coach for us and wish he had have stayed on.

He's proven himself to be the best coach in the league, for mine. His record as a coach speaks for itself. He handles himself extremely well in the media and has the respect of the footy world.

Mark 'Bomber' Thompson also deserves some plaudits. There were some doubts over how much of Geelong's success could be attributed with him but I don't think it's a coincidence that Essendon's resurgance has coincided with him returning to the club.

 

[Big Red is back]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

To all you Blueboys wanting Malthouse as your next coach, I would think again if I were you. It took him ten years with his boring boundary line gameplan to finally get us a flag, and he stuffed up bigtime in the GF last year by playing unfit players on the day. HIs tactics on that day were shocking actually, Cats too good, but he didnt help the cause. Id leave him be in his golden years, as a grandad, and look to a younger bloke if I were you. Someone like Alan Richardson might be the go.?

Malt house got you from bottom and into five gfs in a decade and you were defeated by two of the greatest sides in living memory. Whilst leaving the club primed for several more chances.

 

[gardiner stand]

all this talk about who when why what is boring.the fact is the one weve was is and never will be up to it.pagan was appointed by john elliot without any due diligence(hes always been good at squandering other peoples money)and ratten was appointed without any credentials what so ever.hed done 1 or 2 years as a mid coach at melb and coached a suburban side after that.these unprofessional decisions are the primary reason we are now in this position of a mini rebuild already.with these poor leaders comes poor planning i.e. pagans topping up of 12 or so recycled hacks with the exception of scotland instead of going for youth.then ratten ignores history and does it again.the 80s are long gone its time to get some thinkers in the club.sticks ratten its time to let the professionals come in and clean up this mess

 

[blue gunslinger]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

He's proven himself to be the best coach in the league, for mine. His record as a coach speaks for itself. He handles himself extremely well in the media and has the respect of the footy world.

Mark 'Bomber' Thompson also deserves some plaudits. There were some doubts over how much of Geelong's success could be attributed with him but I don't think it's a coincidence that Essendon's resurgance has coincided with him returning to the club.

Sheedy did alright and is getting reults with Giants

 

[Duiganator]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

Ratten made big promises at the start of the season and hasn't delivered, writing is on the wall whenever this happens. However my biggest issue with Ratten is that he does not seem to be able to get a consistent effort out of our players each week.

I believe the only thing that will save Ratten now is the lack of a better option. We should all say a quiet prayer tonight and hope Jeannie Pratt writes a huge cheque with Paul Roos name on it.

 

[Big Red is back]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

Ratten made big promises at the start of the season and hasn't delivered, writing is on the wall whenever this happens. However my biggest issue with Ratten is that he does not seem to be able to get a consistent effort out of our players each week.

I believe the only thing that will save Ratten now is the lack of a better option. We should all say a quiet prayer tonight and hope Jeannie Pratt writes a huge cheque with Paul Roos name on it.

Fingers crossed

 

[blues4flag]

Re: Respect for brett ratten

Sheedy did alright and is getting reults with Giants

He did but I'm not sure he isn't a crazy old loon.