Mega Thread Brett Ratten

[The Toad]

I beleive that Fridays game may be the game that gets us back on track. As ODN said earlier, they played with a bit of self belief & confidence again. If we can add another 10% on top of that for Thursday, then there is no reason we can't come away with a win.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I have to say that this has been the single biggest disappointment for me this year. The talent is there and the final piece for the team to achieve was the mental resolve.

While the Bombers game was disappointing, by far the worst game this year for me was the Saints game.

Yeah fair call, the Essendon game was particularly disappointing for me as it highlighted that the mental fragility we had shown for the past 2 seasons, that is, losing games to lower teams, much lower teams in some cases had not been properly addressed. Port will be lucky to finish mid table, more likely 12-14 with only Demons, Lions, Suns and Giants in worse shape. Yet they thumped us by 10 goals. The Saints although currently in the 8 are not a top 8 team any more, and neither are the Bombers IMO, and they will be found out in coming weeks. Realistically we ought to have only lost 2 games so far this year, Pies and Cats. Yet we have lost 5 to some real rabble. Very disappointing for me. There is no disgrace in losing like we did to the Cats, 2 goals in a close fought game and even comp to the reigning premier is fair enough. And if we had of lost by 4 goals to the Pies but won against all the others I would be thinking so far so good.

But beating the Pies and losing to Port, come on. Something not right in the heads of some of the players there.

 

[Claypigeon]

I beleive that Fridays game may be the game that gets us back on track. As ODN said earlier, they played with a bit of self belief & confidence again. If we can add another 10% on top of that for Thursday, then there is no reason we can't come away with a win.

Not getting my expectations up just yet. .. Just taking the season one week at a time

 

[multigrain]

When looking at the age profile of our team at the start of 2008 (Rattens first full season) it's clear that the Carlton Football Club has and still is wasting a super exciting list.
Armfield – 21
Betts - 21

Carrazzo – 24
Gibbs – 19
Hampson – 20
Jamison – 21
Judd – 24
Kruezer – 18
Murphy – 20
Simpson – 23
Waite – 25
Walker – 22
All of these players are in our top 15 or so (some would exclude Armfield). Add 5 years onto each of these players and the alarm bells start ringing. Thats the problem in my opinion, our young and vibrant list of 5 years ago has nothing to show for 5 years of development. That young exciting list will be looking pretty old by years end. We've had some list improvement since then from the likes of Yarran, Robinson, Warnock and Henderson but besides that there's not much else. Sure Garlett and Laidler might deserve a mention but they're still in need of more development. I guess my argument centres around the fact that as much as anyone might argue there has been improvement, that improvement was a given considering the age profile of our list in 2008. Any decent coaching panel would have got them to finals. People might shoot me down, but that's a reality. Carlton supporters have the right to be extremely frustrated.

 

[40yearBLUE]

When looking at the age profile of our team at the start of 2008 (Rattens first full season) it's clear that the Carlton Football Club has and still is wasting a super exciting list.

All of these players are in our top 15 or so (some would exclude Armfield). Add 5 years onto each of these players and the alarm bells start ringing. Thats the problem in my opinion, our young and vibrant list of 5 years ago has nothing to show for 5 years of development. .

You need to get a clue. Seriously go do some research. Compare the average and median age of our list with that of other successful teams. For example Geelongs list is about, on average and median measure, about 3 years older than ours, maybe 4 or at least it was last year, this year they have been forced to add younger players as their older premiership core retired or will retire this year.

So go do the research instead of posting ultra emotive clap trap that is completely removed from reality. Maybe then you will start to understand that the ageing of our list is what had made and will make us more successful not the other way around.

 

[mediumsizered]

When looking at the age profile of our team at the start of 2008 (Rattens first full season) it's clear that the Carlton Football Club has and still is wasting a super exciting list.
Armfield – 21
Betts - 21

Carrazzo – 24
Gibbs – 19
Hampson – 20
Jamison – 21
Judd – 24
Kruezer – 18
Murphy – 20
Simpson – 23
Waite – 25
Walker – 22
All of these players are in our top 15 or so (some would exclude Armfield). Add 5 years onto each of these players and the alarm bells start ringing. Thats the problem in my opinion, our young and vibrant list of 5 years ago has nothing to show for 5 years of development. That young exciting list will be looking pretty old by years end. We've had some list improvement since then from the likes of Yarran, Robinson, Warnock and Henderson but besides that there's not much else. Sure Garlett and Laidler might deserve a mention but they're still in need of more development. I guess my argument centres around the fact that as much as anyone might argue there has been improvement, that improvement was a given considering the age profile of our list in 2008. Any decent coaching panel would have got them to finals. People might shoot me down, but that's a reality. Carlton supporters have the right to be extremely frustrated.

Just for argument's sake how many times has Ratts had all of these players on the field in the ensuing 4 years (not 5)? At various stages during this period Jamison, Kreuzer, Waite, Walker, Warnock (4 of the 5 being talls) have had long term injuries over part of the journey. Hard to get structures working properly when you have half your spine missing for lengthy periods & a couple of your rucks (it wasn't that long ago that Carlos was our 2nd ruck at times).

Of course you would expect the 22 year old Laidler & Garlett to need more development, particularly Laidler, who had only had 2 games of AFL experience prior to joining our club. We know how hard it is for players to develop in the VFL & the Geelong VFL team wasn't all that strong during Laidler's time at the Cattery.

 

[bluekidjoe]

You need to get a clue. Seriously go do some research. Compare the average and median age of our list with that of other successful teams. For example Geelongs list is about, on average and median measure, about 3 years older than ours, maybe 4 or at least it was last year, this year they have been forced to add younger players as their older premiership core retired or will retire this year.

So go do the research instead of posting ultra emotive clap trap that is completely removed from reality. Maybe then you will start to understand that the ageing of our list is what had made and will make us more successful not the other way around.

Unnecessary reply. I completely understand the contention, it isn't hard to see. We are indeed entitled to be frustrated (not saying we are) with the way some lists have turned around by comparison.

 

[multigrain]

You need to get a clue. Seriously go do some research. Compare the average and median age of our list with that of other successful teams. For example Geelongs list is about, on average and median measure, about 3 years older than ours, maybe 4 or at least it was last year, this year they have been forced to add younger players as their older premiership core retired or will retire this year.

So go do the research instead of posting ultra emotive clap trap that is completely removed from reality. Maybe then you will start to understand that the ageing of our list is what had made and will make us more successful not the other way around.

What did you read in my post that offended you so much. Take it easy. I understand what your saying. Lets wait three years till we have an average age list similar to Geelongs in 2011?

Geelongs 2011 Grand Final team would have been one of the oldest lists to win a Grand Final probably since Carlton of 95. Who cares anyway. I could look at any premiership team in recent history and identify how their average age list is similar to ours. Geelong didn't win three Grand Finals cause they had a mature list. They had a brilliant list which meant a lot of their older players such as Corey, Enright, Chappy, Scarlett, Ling and Ottens were/are playing good footy into their 30's.Not to mention the fact they won 3 grand finals over 5 years.

Your last paragraph backs up my point perfectly. The core of our list in 2008 was very young. The very gradual improvement we have seen since then is in my opinion a reflection of the maturing of this core group of players. I never said our list was too old in that original post. I am simply making the point that our list is primed to win at the moment. You're nuts if you believe that core group identified has more upside than downside.

Judd, Waite, Carrazzo, Simpson, Jamison. Sure I hope they hold their form for 3 to 4 more years but those guys are either in their prime now or in decline. No doubt about that.

Simply put. We should have done better in 2011 and should be doing better this year considering the stage our list is at.

 

[multigrain]

Unnecessary reply. I completely understand the contention, it isn't hard to see. We are indeed entitled to be frustrated (not saying we are) with the way some lists have turned around by comparison.

Cheers for the support.

 

[bourbons]

Really Rats? Mind games? West Coast might be a be flat after the bye? Not anymore I reckon, after you've put it out there. Would really prefer if he just played a straight bat, trotted out the cliches (in this case; no, they're a professional team, they'll be ready etc), gave them nothing so the sound byte isn't even picked up. Don't see what can be gained from this sort of stuff other than giving the opposition a spur.

His performance in press conferences is a real worry sometimes.

 

[Claypigeon]

Really Rats? Mind games? West Coast might be a be flat after the bye? Not anymore I reckon, after you've put it out there. Would really prefer if he just played a straight bat, trotted out the cliches (in this case; no, they're a professional team, they'll be ready etc), gave them nothing so the sound byte isn't even picked up. Don't see what can be gained from this sort of stuff other than giving the opposition a spur.

His performance in press conferences is a real worry sometimes.

I enjoy his honesty. .. It is refreshing. ..

 

[CarltonFan]

When looking at the age profile of our team at the start of 2008 (Rattens first full season) it's clear that the Carlton Football Club has and still is wasting a super exciting list.
Armfield – 21
Betts - 21

Carrazzo – 24
Gibbs – 19
Hampson – 20
Jamison – 21
Judd – 24
Kruezer – 18
Murphy – 20
Simpson – 23
Waite – 25
Walker – 22
All of these players are in our top 15 or so (some would exclude Armfield). Add 5 years onto each of these players and the alarm bells start ringing. Thats the problem in my opinion, our young and vibrant list of 5 years ago has nothing to show for 5 years of development. That young exciting list will be looking pretty old by years end. We've had some list improvement since then from the likes of Yarran, Robinson, Warnock and Henderson but besides that there's not much else. Sure Garlett and Laidler might deserve a mention but they're still in need of more development. I guess my argument centres around the fact that as much as anyone might argue there has been improvement, that improvement was a given considering the age profile of our list in 2008. Any decent coaching panel would have got them to finals. People might shoot me down, but that's a reality. Carlton supporters have the right to be extremely frustrated.

Hit the nail on the head. 5 years on and all we have to show for it is being the 2012 April Premiers.

Just for argument's sake how many times has Ratts had all of these players on the field in the ensuing 4 years (not 5)? At various stages during this period Jamison, Kreuzer, Waite, Walker, Warnock (4 of the 5 being talls) have had long term injuries over part of the journey. Hard to get structures working properly when you have half your spine missing for lengthy periods & a couple of your rucks (it wasn't that long ago that Carlos was our 2nd ruck at times).

Of course you would expect the 22 year old Laidler & Garlett to need more development, particularly Laidler, who had only had 2 games of AFL experience prior to joining our club. We know how hard it is for players to develop in the VFL & the Geelong VFL team wasn't all that strong during Laidler's time at the Cattery.

MSR the reality is all Premiers have injuries and to key players they all deal with it. It is up to the coach and the recruiting team to ensure we have players available to replace key players and not rely solely on Jarad Waite to play KPF

 

[Big Red is back]

I have to say that this has been the single biggest disappointment for me this year. The talent is there and the final piece for the team to achieve was the mental resolve.

While the Bombers game was disappointing, by far the worst game this year for me was the Saints game.

Agreed.

This along with 1989 are the worst two seasons in the clubs history since I can remember relative to the quality of the playing list. We all know what happened in 1989.

 

[audas]

You need to get a clue. Seriously go do some research. Compare the average and median age of our list with that of other successful teams. For example Geelongs list is about, on average and median measure, about 3 years older than ours, maybe 4 or at least it was last year, this year they have been forced to add younger players as their older premiership core retired or will retire this year.

So go do the research instead of posting ultra emotive clap trap that is completely removed from reality. Maybe then you will start to understand that the ageing of our list is what had made and will make us more successful not the other way around.

He clearly has done his research an his point is entirely valid.

Carlton have not done well at all, and are going backwards, relative to a lot of other clubs. Quite simply we should be further ahead than we are. Pretty obvious people. Every other club is experiencing similar issues really, from Bombers, Pies, and Cats (how many essential players have the cats lost only to keep on filling the spots ??)

Think its time people stopped attacking the messenger about the reality of the Blues and started accepting a few home truths.

I think Mitchel, McCarthy, Casboult and Rowe will propel us into a power house club, two of these guys need to turn it on next year, with the addition of another midfielder or two and we are set.

Think we can go forward, and get a flag, but its frustrating and painful to watch how slowly the development is taking, in all truth after this season it will be a 13 year rebuild. THAT IS SHIT ! And between drinks it is going to be 18 years.

I don't know how people are satisfied with that, I really don't. Its our third longest stretch in our entire history. Not good.

 

[Peete]

How many years did Geelong run with Thompson? How many more years woudl they have liked too?
How many years did Collingwood run with Malthouse? How many more years woudl they have if Eddie wasnt worried about being ousted as grand poobah?

Ratten hasn't had a list of 30 players able to win a premiership - c'mon already! do you really see "a Bower" as a premiership player - gimme a break ! Fair dinkum the most frustrating thing for me has been watching players liek Bower who are obviously not Top4 team quality - pretty much frustrate team play for the last 3 years....but what alternative?

I think perhaps that drafting new blood has also been significantly set back by teh GC and GWs draft over teh last two years - so every team in the competition will be aging faster than they would like.

Back to a more normal year now at end fo year -and recruiters and scouts and traders will have more elbow room to do their thing- lets see if we can add to depth and talent.

 

[rampar]

Reckon someone needs to bring one of those high chairs the tennis refs use to the ground so that ratts can see the other side of the oval.

 

[Salaryman]

Reckon someone needs to bring one of those high chairs the tennis refs use to the ground so that ratts can see the other side of the oval.

very costanza

 

[Aphrodite]

very costanza

Very HBF (high chair)

 

[thylacine60]

Curvature of the earth can be a genuine issue at Subi.

 

[Kramer1]

Curvature of the earth can be a genuine issue at Subi.

But still the 'flat track bully' claims will roll in when we win...the average football observer's understanding of the coriolis effect is rudimentary to say the least.

 

[The Coach]

Reckon someone needs to bring one of those high chairs the tennis refs use to the ground so that ratts can see the other side of the oval.

and would add ..... because if you are coaching from the boundary you are not calling the shots (when Roos did it, Longmire was match day tactician)

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Cheers for the support.

He compares us with the Cats of 2011, when our list is averaging that age Judd will be retired or on his last legs. He continuously compares us to the Cats for some reason. He even thinks that this year is our equivalent of the Geelong 2006 side and we'll clean house in the next few years and his great explanation for all this is history repeats itself lol.

We will be lucky to win a flag with the way some of the players in our team approach each game. Garlett has had poor attitude, Gibbs has been soft throughout his whole career I thought he'd toughen up once he got older and a bigger body but this has not been the case he continuously shirks contests and has minimal impact on games. He's never had to work hard for anything, he's gotten by, by coasting through relying only on his natural talent. Guys like Carrots and Ellard have worked really hard to get into the side and you can see when they play they are hard at it and win their own ball, Gibbs doesn't do this becuase he's been spoon fed the whole time he's been here. Simpson has gone MIA, last week he turned it around, let's see if that holds up tonight. Scotland is too old and clearly not having a year anywhere near as good as last year's, Hammer still struggles to mark the ball even after corrective laser eye surgery and unfortunately, the champ is getting old and we are forced to rely on him too much with Murphy out and it just looks to me like it's all getting to be too much weight for him to carry, he looks like he's playing with so much pressure that he's put on himself. Then there's Andrew Walker who had a break out year last year but is now starting to try and be the superstar again and not playing team football. I heard he's gonna be Thor's sidekick in Thor 2. 2014 Coming to a big screen near you, Andrew Walker Carlton superstar!

Until these players (apart from Judd) change their attitude we won't win a flag. They are all certainly talented enough we saw that last year and early on this year, but talent means nothing if you're not willing to put the hard yards in and/or have the right attitude.

 

[Big Red is back]

Selecting aj
Not subbing aj
Not sending Judd or someone to priddis

 

[gbatman]

Carlton need a massive massive clean out of it's off field staff. Look at things simply.

We can not see that Touhy, Yarran and Collins should be played on the ball more. We refuse to try players in positions that suit their game better, unless forced to by injury. We only found out Henderson was a good backman through injury, it was obvious he could play there. We moved Yarran to defence, I thought it was obvious that that was going to be a good move, no credit for making the obvious move. We can not see that giving Watson time up forward is a good thing. Our inability to identify where players can play is a concern and our refusal to play more players in other positions is a joke.

Our players strength is in the bottom 3 or 4 sides in the league. We have a mature list, this is a disgrace.

We play a pathetic brand of football. Our players don't spread at stoppages and we have no movement of players at stoppages, we kick long to small players in our forward line and ask them to do the impossible while ignoring the talls who are not strong enough any way and we go to the boundry in our forward line all the time. Shepherding and blocking does not exist.

Our player development is pathetic. None of our talls can take a mark. Kreuzer has not improved as a player in years and still has a ton of flaws in his marking technique, he should be playing a lot better.

Now tell me that we have great fittness staff and coaching. If Carlton is a proud club that wants to win a premiership and is actually serious about going for the best of the best we will clean out our football staff for the best avaliable, not just a bunch of duds.

In my opinion we should get Malthouse, get the best strength people to the club, scrap the overseas trip and just get our heads down and run and do the gym work and a bit of training in the summer, get a simple attacking game with strong core players, use Wayne Carey's services to mentor our tall players so that they begin to play tall and can take a few marks. Lets poach assistant coaches who have a history of success because we have poached a team of assistants with a history of failure which shows. We need to jump onto some recently retired Geelong people, we need to go all out to get Scarlett if he retires. Would love a guy like Ling as a midfield coach but he's got a good job in the media.

The only people who can not see that there's plenty wrong with Carlton are the one eyed blind ones who know a lot less about they game than they realise.

Carlton need to stand up and do something about this and make the tough decisions.

 

[Setanta The Irish]

Gibbs was ok.

Can someone tell me WHY WALKER IS PLAYING IN THE BACKLINE AND NOT OUT OF THE GOALSQUAR?!?!?!?!?!?

WHY?