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Mega Thread Brett Ratten

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blues4flag said:
Unfortunately a fair chunk of that talent is sitting on the sidelines. While the blind anger and wrist slashing makes for an easy scapegoat, hopefully the footy club is looking at this more rationally.

Yes, the effort of the players is disappointing. But Carrazzo, Murphy, Waite, Laidler, Henderson and Kreuzer aren't easy players to replace. Especially when you factor in our depth players in Thornton and Duigan are also out injured, while Mitchell is just working himself into fitness.

Doesn't get any easier with Scotland set to miss weeks.
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Essendon and saints game we had excellent sides in.

Guys it's not these four weeks watch us play anytime over last four years and you can see we have no structure , for Christ sake watch gws they have better structure than us.

We finished 5th last year due to some great talent playing great football, but our lack of structure is obvious to anyone who has played alot of football.

Structure allows you to cover injuries much better.
 
blues4flag said:
Unfortunately a fair chunk of that talent is sitting on the sidelines. While the blind anger and wrist slashing makes for an easy scapegoat, hopefully the footy club is looking at this more rationally.

Yes, the effort of the players is disappointing. But Carrazzo, Murphy, Waite, Laidler, Henderson and Kreuzer aren't easy players to replace. Especially when you factor in our depth players in Thornton and Duigan are also out injured, while Mitchell is just working himself into fitness.

Doesn't get any easier with Scotland set to miss weeks.
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Thing is we were insipid before all the injuries
 
1981 said:
Thing is we were insipid before all the injuries
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Injuries started v Essendon. Week before we smashed the Pies with our run and pressure.

But hey, never the let the facts get in the way of a good whinge.
 
Big Red is back said:
Essendon and saints game we had excellent sides in.

Guys it's not these four weeks watch us play anytime over last four years and you can see we have no structure , for Christ sake watch gws they have better structure than us.

We finished 5th last year due to some great talent playing great football, but our lack of structure is obvious to anyone who has played alot of football.

Structure allows you to cover injuries much better.
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I agree with you to an extent and it's been a concern of mine for a while. It hurts to see WC's depth players step in and not miss a beat while ours seem to be unsure of what their role is. We do have a game plan of sorts and it involves our players running and spreading hard forward from stoppages. We were lightning across the field last year.

Unfortunately teams have found out how to negate our spread, turning games into a scrap. It's clear our focus during the preseason was on hard running and spread - our players are being out-bodied in congestion, and I'm not sure it's for a lack of effort.

It was well documented that Sanderson's goal was to turn the fit but physically weak Crows into hardened men and it's worked brilliantly for them.
 

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Go_Blues! said:
Be interesting to see where the players are on the progressive overload training regime right now. If they are in a peak training month, that would explain why it appears they lack effort. I assume they base this around the fixture and may have expected to be in a less demanding month.

I think we need to wait for seasons end to really understand how far we have come or gone backwards.
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I would doubt it for that would be stupid when you are struggling for numbers - you have to be flexible even with the best of plans
 
rampar said:
malthouse and matthews are retired and past it. Throw the cheque book at thompson. Look what he did at essendon.
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Just out of curiosity, you want to throw a truckload of cash at a coach that was almost sacked by the Cats but for the courage of their strong board to stay the course. They did get a good football dept manager in Balme to help him out, but they stuck with him despite his initial success evaporating and the Cats dropping out of the 8 in his 3 or 4 season, and waited with him until his 7th or 8th season for that ultimate success by which you now laud him.

So in short, you would get a coach that was afforded the kind of patience that you wont extend to Ratts despite Ratts having an almost identical trajectory as Thompson had at the Cats, and looks to be about to suffer a similar slump, maybe not as bad, we probably wont drop out of the 8, but we may go a step backwards before going forward again.

Is that how it works?

Because if Bomber was given the kind of patience Ratts gets from some of you, he would never have won a flag. Would have been sacked in 2005, 2 years before he eventually went on to win his first in his 7th or 8th year as senior coach.
 
Just going to voice my opinion on the whole Carlton coaching issue.. I honestly don't believe ratten is the problem at carlton. He hasn't been half as bad as some of you have made him sound. Last year you guys came extremely close to a prelim with the same list/game plan.

I honestly believe its the attitude among the players that is holding you guys back and ive experienced this first hand... I was out with my carlton supporting mate the next night after u guys gave us a pasting and I happened to run in to a few Carlton players who were out on the piss.

You wouldn't believe what was coming out of their mouths... they were telling us how they were certanties for the premiership.. how they were on the up and geelong/pies were done. How they were gonna smash Essendon by at least 80 points. Shit like that.. I know some of it may have been a bit of a troll but still. I think when u carry that attitude in to games u get done.. St kilda and port for example. You would've pencilled in those games last year as easy wins..

I think Carlton have fallen in to a trap of believing their own hype..

Just my 2c
 
My 2 cents. I have a lot of respect for Ratten. I've never called for his head or concluded him to be a poor coach up to this point. In many ways it is hard to judge his performance this year due to our numerous injuries. The fact that we played such an exciting three weeks before the rot set in, compounds the dilemma. Although I know injuries have had a huge influence on our last 4 to 5 weeks, it still doesn’t excuse being smashed by both Adelaide teams. I don’t care what people say, even with our current injury list we’re still under performing, particularly throughout the midfield. A midfield of Judd, Simpson, Robinson Walker, Gibbs, Ellard, Curnow, Mclean and Warnock should not be this poor. There is a culmination of factors at work contributing to our capitulation.



Poor preseason (too much run not enough weights training???)
injuries
game plan (particularly defensive),
Players out of form (Gibbs, Judd, Garlett, Betts, Curnow ……)
Entire coaching panel


To simply blame Ratten for our downfall this season is unfair, and not looking at the broader issues.



I still think we need to replace Ratten though, unless he can turn things around quickly. He’s had 6 years to develop the list (not hard considering our youth in 2008), 6 years to develop a coaching panel of his own design and 6 years to improve his own coaching abilities. I would fire him because of our disappointing 2010/11 period. I personally think 2010 was a disappointment considering where we were sitting early on in the season. We had a shocking mid season form slump that year for no apparent reason, culminating in a heartbreaking loss to Sydney in an elimination final. We had an even better chance to make top 4 last year but blew it (losses to west coast (etihad) and bulldogs) resulting in a trip to Perth to end another wasted season.



Generally bad luck and bad form has all but stripped his chance this year to finally prove himself as our man. Unfortunately for Ratten the runs aren’t on the board when he needs protection. If we had of done better last year when we had a great chance to play a prelim at the G, maybe there would be more support. Look at Adelaide (2012) and Geelong (2011). Anyone who claims a first year coach can’t take a team to the top is crazy. There’s no substitute for a fresh voice and a new team outlook. The big question still remains, who you replace him with.



At the end of the day there’s still at least 12 matches left. The team surrounding Ratten (players and coaches) can still save his job if they want him to stay bad enough. Life isn’t fair and that’s the way I feel about Ratten. He’ll probably end up being the scapegoat for our poor season, but that’s the responsibility every AFL coach has to accept.
My pick: Roos / Thompson / Worsfold (would be a football miracle).
 
skadoosh said:
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/4311/newsid/137778/default.aspx

Carlton President Stephen Kernahan has strongly refuted suggestions in the media that the Club has, at any time, spoken to Mick Malthouse about a role with the Carlton Football Club.

“We have never spoken to Mick about a role here at our club,” Kernahan said today.
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Yep, nice article. Slapped Eddie down in the process. We will find a solution to our problems. He knows it. And his confidence ought to slap a few here down with him. Time some of you faced reality, the club has a coach it has faith in, they just gave him a 2 year contract extension. We are still on more wins than losses, 2 wins off top, in the 8. We would need to lose every game and finish in the bottom 4 for there to even be second thoughts. Aint gonna happen. We will finish in the 8 and Ratts will see out his current contract. I am not as confident as I was earlier in the year, but I still have faith in the current team from the boot-studder up to the Pres and nearly everyone in between.

Go baggers.
 
Very well done by Sticks re: Eddie's comments IMHO. Gotta get in early before we have articles in the HUN all week fueling the speculation surrounding Malthouse.
 

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40yearBLUE said:
Yep, nice article. Slapped Eddie down in the process. We will find a solution to our problems. He knows it. And his confidence ought to slap a few here down with him. Time some of you faced reality, the club has a coach it has faith in, they just gave him a 2 year contract extension. We are still on more wins than losses, 2 wins off top, in the 8. We would need to lose every game and finish in the bottom 4 for there to even be second thoughts. Aint gonna happen. We will finish in the 8 and Ratts will see out his current contract. I am not as confident as I was earlier in the year, but I still have faith in the current team from the boot-studder up to the Pres and nearly everyone in between.

Go baggers.
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There is no doubt Ratten will survive until the end of the season, but the facts are he has five + years in the job now, we are still hovering around 5th-8th, we are going to face a major battle to finish in the 8, it is becoming questionable whether we have the capacity to move forward, as other teams have overtaken us.

We are kidding ourselves if we are satisfied as a club to finish in the bottom half of the 8, but rest assured the entire list & coaches will be reviewed at seasons end and what the fallout from that is anyone's guess at this time.

Good teams that are focussed and committed do not lose the way we have lost in recent times, you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
The bolded comments in your post are almost laughable.
 
40yearBLUE said:
Yep, nice article. Slapped Eddie down in the process. We will find a solution to our problems. He knows it. And his confidence ought to slap a few here down with him. Time some of you faced reality, the club has a coach it has faith in, they just gave him a 2 year contract extension. We are still on more wins than losses, 2 wins off top, in the 8. We would need to lose every game and finish in the bottom 4 for there to even be second thoughts. Aint gonna happen. We will finish in the 8 and Ratts will see out his current contract. I am not as confident as I was earlier in the year, but I still have faith in the current team from the boot-studder up to the Pres and nearly everyone in between.

Go baggers.
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I like your optimism, but I don't know where you're sourcing it from. We will find a solution to our problems. Solutions don't just happen, changes need to occur to implement solutions. Let's face reality. We're no closer to winning a premiership in 2012 than we were in 2009. That's fact.
Judd, Simpson, Carrazzo, Waite, Scotland, Thornton = time is running out.

I'm sure Eddie is not worried about Carlton finding a solution. He'd be laughing at us right now, and that pisses me off. I think our list is good enough to win a premiership, maybe not with so many injuries, but I think we still have a good 2 year window ahead. Carlton proved in 2011 we're a pretty good side, and now I think it's time to take a risk and throw the kitchen sink at a premiership. Think of it as a coach upgrade.
 
mac25 said:
There is no doubt Ratten will survive until the end of the season, but the facts are he has five + years in the job now, we are still hovering around 5th-8th, we are going to face a major battle to finish in the 8, it is becoming questionable whether we have the capacity to move forward, as other teams over overtaking us.

We are kidding ourselves if we are satisfied as a club to finish in the bottom half of the 8, but rest assured the entire list & coaches will be reviewed at seasons end and what the fallout from that is anyone's guess at this time.

Good teams that are focussed and committed do not lose the way we have lost in recent times, you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
The bolded comments in your post are almost laughable.
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Look dude, enough of the emotive crap. Do you think Geelong of the past half decade was a good team?

Here is a synopsis of their 2006 season, Thompsons 5th season IIANM.

Won 10 lost 11 finished 10th (no cigar for guessing Richmond finished 9th above them).

They lost 5 of their games by 10 goals or more, 2 of them by 100 points to the Pies and the Crows, and still they stuck with Bomber, and 2 years later he was holding up the cup. FFS, Ratts is in his 5th full season and we have not lost by 100 points nor have we even dropped out of the 8.

Why cant you people understand that form is not linear. There are ups and downs. Good administrations understand that there are a number of external influences, just be patient.

The Cats have shown us all the way. Pick a coach, back him in, back the players in and wait. Ratts record is as good as if not better than Bomber Thompsons at the same stage of their careers, if we wait it out, he will raise the cup for us.
 
multigrain said:
I like your optimism, but I don't know where you're sourcing it from. We will find a solution to our problems. Solutions don't just happen, changes need to occur to implement solutions. Let's face reality. We're no closer to winning a premiership in 2012 than we were in 2009. That's fact.
Judd, Simpson, Carrazzo, Waite, Scotland, Thornton = time is running out.

I'm sure Eddie is not worried about Carlton finding a solution. He'd be laughing at us right now, and that pisses me off. I think our list is good enough to win a premiership, maybe not with so many injuries, but I think we still have a good 2 year window ahead. Carlton proved in 2011 we're a pretty good side, and now I think it's time to take a risk and throw the kitchen sink at a premiership. Think of it as a coach upgrade.
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History dude. Study your history. If you want to know where to go, look where those you want to follow have been.
 
40yearBLUE said:
Look dude, enough of the emotive crap. Do you think Geelong of the past half decade was a good team?

Here is a synopsis of their 2006 season, Thompsons 5th season IIANM.

Won 10 lost 11 finished 10th (no cigar for guessing Richmond finished 9th above them).

They lost 5 of their games by 10 goals or more, 2 of them by 100 points to the Pies and the Crows, and still they stuck with Bomber, and 2 years later he was holding up the cup. FFS, Ratts is in his 4th full season.

Why cant you people understand that form is not linear. There are ups and downs. Good administrations understand that there are a number of external influences, just be patient.

The Cats have shown us all the way. Pick a coach, back him in, back the players in and wait. Ratts record is as good as if not better than Bomber Thompsons at the same stage of their careers, if we wait it out, he will raise the cup for us.
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We do not have the list Geelong had by some way, two of our most important players Waite & Judd are close to 30, Waite has major question marks on his body, leaving a major gap in a attack that is already one-dimensional in relying upon the output of the small forwards with opposition teams now closing their space down.

Judd has been a fantastic player, but he is not going to get better at this stage of his career, if you read my post, l said let's assess at the end of the season, the list and our coaching staff, as despite your optimism we will be battling to make the 8 and this is hardly acceptable.

You have given a example of Cats sticking with Thompson, well the Crows could have made the decision to stick with Craig and they would be still in the bottom 4.

And by the way your comments on Blues losing all remaining games would only then cause a doubt
on Ratten is still laughable.
 
40yearBLUE said:
Look dude, enough of the emotive crap. Do you think Geelong of the past half decade was a good team?

Here is a synopsis of their 2006 season, Thompsons 5th season IIANM.

Won 10 lost 11 finished 10th (no cigar for guessing Richmond finished 9th above them).

They lost 5 of their games by 10 goals or more, 2 of them by 100 points to the Pies and the Crows, and still they stuck with Bomber, and 2 years later he was holding up the cup. FFS, Ratts is in his 4th full season.

Why cant you people understand that form is not linear. There are ups and downs. Good administrations understand that there are a number of external influences, just be patient.

The Cats have shown us all the way. Pick a coach, back him in, back the players in and wait. Ratts record is as good as if not better than Bomber Thompsons at the same stage of their careers, if we wait it out, he will raise the cup for us.
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Ratten's in his 5th full season at he club, technically his 6th season considering he took over in 2007. I personally don't see the Bomber Thompson example as a valid point. It has nothing to do with Carlton or our current situation.

I get it now. Geelong held onto their coach after a poor season in 06 and then won a premiership in 07. Yay, that means all we have to is not sack Ratten and we'll win a premiership next year. Is that your point? I know Ratten hasn't done too much wrong the last few years but it doesn't mean we can't bring in someone better.

The main reason they didn't sack Thompson was because he at least took them within a couple of kicks of a Granny in 04.
 

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40yearBLUE said:
Yep, nice article. Slapped Eddie down in the process. We will find a solution to our problems. He knows it. And his confidence ought to slap a few here down with him. Time some of you faced reality, the club has a coach it has faith in, they just gave him a 2 year contract extension. We are still on more wins than losses, 2 wins off top, in the 8. We would need to lose every game and finish in the bottom 4 for there to even be second thoughts. Aint gonna happen. We will finish in the 8 and Ratts will see out his current contract. I am not as confident as I was earlier in the year, but I still have faith in the current team from the boot-studder up to the Pres and nearly everyone in between.

Go baggers.
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If we don't make top 4 this year then he has to go, end of story.
 
Madblue said:
If we don't make top 4 this year then he has to go, end of story.
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What rubbish. You think if you set a public goal and dont achieve it no matter what you have to lose your job?

No matter that a third of our best 22 is currently injured?

Get a grip.
 
40yearBLUE said:
What rubbish. You think if you set a public goal and dont achieve it no matter what you have to lose your job?

No matter that a third of our best 22 is currently injured?

Get a grip.
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Crap.

Our form vs bombers and saints was woeful when injury list wasn't to bad, pies have vastly worse injury list.
 
Does anyone share the view that the players played for the coach and the coach coached better when he was going to be out of contract (last year)? Feels like after rd 3 everyone just got comfortable and then injuries hit. now players have forgotten how to dig deep again? Maybe some media heat on ratts is just what the team needs, seemed to have worked last year.
 
Big Red is back said:
Crap.

Our form vs bombers and saints was woeful when injury list wasn't to bad, pies have vastly worse injury list.
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Coming from a Ratts basher from years back you hardly rate a response. And the Yazz comments you claim you overheard at the hospital put you lower than PooMonkey on the cred chart but nevertheless I will humour you.

Vs Essendon we had zero rotations available because we lost Carrots in the first 10 minutes, and Curnow and Yazz and Laidler were all hobbled. No team will win if they cannot rotate their players through the bench. No team. So this rubbish you are on about us having picked a good team for Essendon is disingenuous at best. An outright fabrication or delusion is a more apt description.

Against the Saints we had 2 of our best players out, Carrots and Laidler, and perhaps Waite should not have played, if I am not mistaken he didnt play the week before and hasnt played since. Nevertheless, we did field a fairly good team and lost by 4 goals, hardly a disgrace.

So at best you are 1 from 2. You should be sacked. Because the club is 6 from 10 (better than 1 from 2) and yet you want the coach sacked.
 
Lots of posts calling for Ratts' head, very few - if any - telling how a new coach will take us forward, how long will that take, & who that new coach will be.

Not saying that Ratts' should stay on beyond year's end if things don't get better, but sacking a coach with no replacement strategy is Dumb.
 
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