Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[The Speaker]

Absolutely. I'm with Peter Hitchens' view that the referendum was a terrible idea and would lead to exactly the constitutional crisis they're having if Leave won.

Having said that, if there is to be a second referendum from here then it has to be between different Leave options.

hear hear

 

[The Warlord]

But that's what yesterdays vote has basically voided, the no deal.

Read somewhere that at least 10 (including 3 Labour pollies) who voted for the Letwin amendment have already stated they will vote for Johnson's deal. That already brings it into the majority. Of course there's those that abstained to take into account. Will be close but I think it will get over the line.

Now's the time to pounce and accept the deal, because in the long game Johnson gets stronger, not weaker.

Nah, the Johnson deal becomes no deal upon expiry of the transition period if no FTA agreed.

Not hard to imagine Johnson using its passage to boost an election then slow walking negotiation to run down the clock and get their much lasted after no deal Singapore on the Thames.

 

[Les Malone]

Biggest poll on Brexit since referendum.

• 26,000 adults surveyed by ComRes across the UK
• Results shows more than half (54%) of British public support the UK abiding by the referendum result and leaving the EU, regardless of the way they voted in the 2016 Referendum.
• More people’s preferred outcome is now for the UK to leave the European Union (50% v 42% remain).
• However, when the “don’t knows” (of those expressing an opinion) are excluded, over half say their preferred outcome is for the UK to leave the EU (54%) compared to less than half who say their preferred outcome is for the UK to remain in the EU (46%)
• But more people think a no deal is bad for the UK than good.
• Big Brexit divides across age groups and also Scotland, London and Northern Ireland out of kilter with the rest of the UK
• Poll commissioned for Live Brexit Referendum: Do We Want No Deal? (Channel 5, Wednesday 16 October at 9pm)

So actually despite some losers on here claiming that when the old white little English die off then the stats will change - it hasn't.

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[Tiger08]

Well, considering that option A was real and an actual choice and option B in 2016 was a heady mixture of magic beans and unicorn s**t, I think that yes, option A needs to get another go.

Well if the deal gets through we'll find out who was exaggerating on both sides of that 2016 debate. There was plenty of hysterical nonsense on the Remain side as well..

I just find it so hard to believe that despite all this, the Tories are still so far ahead in the polls. If Labour had a remotely electable leader; they could be in power and scheduling a referendum as we speak. I can't understand how Corbyn is still leader with so much at stake.

 

[JackOutback]

hear hear

I’m neither here nor there on a new referendum, but the idea that democracy means forcibly adhering to a referendum that in no way resembled the actual finished product is laughable. We’re allowed to change our minds on government every few years but apparently something as wholly significant as Brexit is only allowed one vote and not on the actual deal being presented.

 

[Les Malone]

I’m neither here nor there on a new referendum, but the idea that democracy means forcibly adhering to a referendum that in no way resembled the actual finished product is laughable. We’re allowed to change our minds on government every few years but apparently something as wholly significant as Brexit is only allowed one vote and not on the actual deal being presented.

Wrong, just wrong, your post is laughable.

Democracy means respecting the referendum result.

Implement it

And a few years down the track have another one if public opinion changes significantly.

 

[The Speaker]

I’m neither here nor there on a new referendum, but the idea that democracy means forcibly adhering to a referendum that in no way resembled the actual finished product is laughable. We’re allowed to change our minds on government every few years but apparently something as wholly significant as Brexit is only allowed one vote and not on the actual deal being presented.

2017 election was a second vote

 

[Les Malone]

2017 election was a second vote

Correct.

 

[Father Jack]

Well if the deal gets through we'll find out who was exaggerating on both sides of that 2016 debate. There was plenty of hysterical nonsense on the Remain side as well..

I just find it so hard to believe that despite all this, the Tories are still so far ahead in the polls. If Labour had a remotely electable leader; they could be in power and scheduling a referendum as we speak. I can't understand how Corbyn is still leader with so much at stake.

At least people knew what 'remain' meant. No one campaigned for a no deal Brexit.

 

[Les Malone]

At least people knew what 'remain' meant. No one campaigned for a no deal Brexit.

Rubbish, but it appears you wont stop.

It was leave or remain

Leave actually means leave.

It's not rocket science, so don't twist it to suit your twisted logic.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Having said that, if there is to be a second referendum from here then it has to be between different Leave options.

Except that you can't do that. It would require negotiating two separate deals with the EU and then having a vote on which one to adopt. You can't put an option to the people to vote on unless you know that will be accepted by the EU. The people of the UK don't get a vote on what the EU accepts or does not accept.

 

[ChappyUK]

Remain would win according to the polls. Yes, the polls I know.

It's worth recalling there's been two PMs and an election since that vote.

Things have changed greatly.

I doubt there is less desire from the population to Leave. However Remain wont put in the same halfed-arse campaigning as last time.

 

[ChappyUK]

Except that you can't do that. It would require negotiating two separate deals with the EU and then having a vote on which one to adopt. You can't put an option to the people to vote on unless you know that will be accepted by the EU. The people of the UK don't get a vote on what the EU accepts or does not accept.

Two options. Deal or no deal.

 

[JackOutback]

2017 election was a second vote

No it wasn’t. And it still wasn’t a vote on no deal, which leavers continued to insist wasn’t an option.

 

[FootyJunkie]

Not a good finish, Boris!

 

[Total Power]

Rubbish, but it appears you wont stop.

It was leave or remain

Leave actually means leave.

It's not rocket science, so don't twist it to suit your twisted logic.

EU membership got nothing to do with SM and CU. Norway/Switzerland, they are EU are they?

you are one confused puppy. Vast majority of the people support a deal with the EU. Stop fantasizing about meds' wet dream.

 

[MrKK]

At least people knew what 'remain' meant. No one campaigned for a no deal Brexit.

Remain is not a known, static option. EU has changed immeasurably in the 40 years since the British public were last given a vote on Europe and no sign that it wouldn't continue to change.

 

[The Warlord]

2017 election was a second vote

No, it was a general election.

 

[The Warlord]

I doubt there is less desire from the population to Leave. However Remain wont put in the same halfed-arse campaigning as last time.

Given the shambles Leave has become, it seems like lots of people have indeed changed their mind.

Also, lots of leave voters have died, and remainers come of voting age.

 

[The Warlord]

 

[Father Jack]

Rubbish, but it appears you wont stop.

It was leave or remain

Leave actually means leave.

It's not rocket science, so don't twist it to suit your twisted logic.

No one thought they were voting for crashing out without a deal.

 

[ChappyUK]

Given the shambles Leave has become, it seems like lots of people have indeed changed their mind.

Also, lots of leave voters have died, and remainers come of voting age.

In 3 years? The population demographics don't change that much.

 

[Gough]

Boris Johnson used to be a joke, posh w***er, part time member for Henley where you could put up a dog reading Das Kapital out loud and they'd vote for it as long as it was a Tory and editor of the Speccy. How he's ended up as PM is a mystery.

 

[Gough]

Mind you, it looks like he's living up to his capabilities.

 

[The Warlord]

In 3 years? The population demographics don't change that much.

Given the spread on old folks voting leave and the young voting remain, it really does. It is one of the key sources of tension in families in Britain - young people accusing their older relatives of voting away their future.

The analysis found that an extra 235,000 Remain voters join the electorate each year, as 395,000 reach voting age and 160,000 die.

At the same time, the number of Leave supporters falls by 260,000 a year. 320,000 die and just 60,000 reach voting age.

Leave voters dying and Remainers reaching voting age means majority will soon oppose Brexit, study finds

Demographic changes mean number of Remain supporters grows by 235,000 each year, while number of Leave backers falls by 260,000

www.independent.co.uk