Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[Total Power]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ed-into-meadows-post-brexit-says-michael-gove


This is hilarious! stop growing food, cause we will import from Non-EU countries

well don't worry substandard US exports are waiting for you. You get what you deserve.

 

[Todman]

Farage had a huge gaff about a 2nd referendum.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...e-second-EU-referendum-vote-UK-European-Union

 

[showdownhero]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...ree-trade-agreement-economists-for-free-trade

 

[medusala]

This is hilarious! stop growing food, cause we will import from Non-EU countries .

yep Gove being a knob (mind you set aside nonsense already occurs under CAP).

well don't worry substandard US exports are waiting for you. You get what you deserve.

Beef from oz, lamb from nz. UK already 2nd biggest producer of poultry in EU and the import gap can easily be filled.

Farage had a huge gaff about a 2nd referendum.

Yes very weird. Half think he is trolling. Corbyn doesnt want a 2nd referendum. UKIP just a complete rabble now without Farage. Doubt they will survive.

 

[medusala]

Even if i discount my studies, your scare mongering is ***** .Also what about non-cash contributions?

lol. Its reality. The vast majority of those coming from Eastern Europe work for wages near the min wage. There is no way they pay in more than they receive in services and benefits.

Traffic at numerous rail stations has increased by over 100% in the last 15 or so years. By your maths the cost of those upgrades, water upgrades increased demand for education, health etc dont cost anything. Of course they do.

“European immigrants endowed the UK labour market with human capital that would have cost £14 billion if it were produced through the British education system”.

You keep posting this sort of tosh. Most of that is skilled employees from western europe. Straw man.

As i said to you above you simply don't understand the work UK needs to put in and the costs involved. You think its all READY and the costs will be a few million only. You are detached from the real world.

NOONE is saying there are no potential costs involved. NOONE. Another straw man.

 

[medusala]

I'm currently reading Tim Shipman's brilliant All Out War, which is an excellent account of the vote and the lead up. Would recommend to anyone interested in this.

Its good until he loses the plot completely right at the very end.

 

[medusala]

It was always about migrants and they are taking our jobs.

In London home renovation costs went down over 30% due to the Poles. You think all the Brit manual labourers like roofers, tilers, plasterers, brickies etc all enjoyed such a massive pay cut?

Its amusing that ignorant clowns like Ratts will squeal how bad workchoices was but celebrate people taking massive income cuts due to immigration.

 

[Total Power]

lol. Its reality. The vast majority of those coming from Eastern Europe work for wages near the min wage. There is no way they pay in more than they receive in services and benefits.

Traffic at numerous rail stations has increased by over 100% in the last 15 or so years. By your maths the cost of those upgrades, water upgrades increased demand for education, health etc dont cost anything. Of course they do.

I showed you the maths already, including your figure of 9k, the contribution exceeds the cash AND non-cash expenses, that 9k figure came from you, not from me. What i am saying is that you cannot really quantify non-cash expenses AND contributions. If you actually count the non-cash expenses you will see the biggest drain on the system are native british themselves, not the migrants, so what do you suggest we do with them? If you are so hellbent to prove that migrants cost so much, show me the math behind your non cash expenses and how you do quantify non-cash contribution. For example, i am NON EU, i have a company in the UK, i employ 15 people there. What's my non-cash contribution to the economy? how do you compute the cost of the UK government training them or social costs if i didn't set my business up? hence, its a can of worms and it's not really 'science'.

But have you considered costs like that? i don't mind migrants making a positive cash contribution to the society, if you wish to get into non-cash argument, i suggest you do your research on the native british costs first, which is way higher per capita than Poles and NET NEGATIVE to the government than the poles too.


For example: Poles in the UK have opened 22,000 business' and are employing over 100,000 people. Have you considered the non-cash contributions there? how many natives do they employ and how do you calculate such costs? 96 percent of the poles in the UK are in gainful employment or in further education while making a positive cash contribution to the country while much less of an burden on noncash expenses than native british people. I am not saying it , research is. So when you take all these factors into consideration you failed to prove your point that EU migration is a bad thing for the UK

 

[Total Power]

In London home renovation costs went down over 30% due to the Poles. You think all the Brit manual labourers like roofers, tilers, plasterers, brickies etc all enjoyed such a massive pay cut?

Its amusing that ignorant clowns like Ratts will squeal how bad workchoices was but celebrate people taking massive income cuts due to immigration.

How nice of you to quote selectively. Considered this?

The report was released hours after recruitment firm Morgan McKinley published a survey showing job vacancies in London’s finance industry fell 52 percent in December, the most in three years. There was also a 37 percent decline in job openings year-on-year, underscoring the looming “Brexodus” from the City, the company said.

Morgan McKinley cited firms’ frustration at the lack of progress in carving out a Brexit divorce agreement and said that a lot of good news -- such as an increase in the number of skilled-worker visas being issued -- was being overlooked in the confusion. Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank AG and Bank of America Corp. are all said to be moving operations away from London in favor of cities such as Frankfurt and Paris in case of a no-deal departure.

OR


RICS has been concerned for some time about the impact of Brexit on construction, particularly as positions harden.

The RICS Construction and Infrastructure market survey continues to illustrate the ongoing skills shortage, and the ‘Preparing for Brexit’ report released this morning underlines the potential wider impact on productivity and investment.



But you continue to argue that these reports are false and there is no skilled shortage! what are your sources and where are you quoting these from? are you saying RICS have no idea? they also say this:


It is easy to see how London would be disproportionately affected in terms of construction and skills, and both for the capital and beyond it is an absolute necessity that construction workers and built environment professionals, such as quantity surveyors, are added to the UK occupation shortage list.




So they are all lying? ok then!

considered this then?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...rtage-tightens-around-uk-construction-sector/

Britain’s shortage of surveyors, bricklayers and other construction workers is holding back building work just at the time when the country needs more houses and infrastructure.

Almost two-thirds of surveyors said a lack of skilled workers is a key factor limiting building activity, according to the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors.

The skills shortage has now overtaken planning and regulation as the second biggest problem facing the industry, with 62pc reporting recruitment problems in the third quarter of the year.




Ofcourse the salaries will rise, its a demand/supply thing, but is productivity rising? come on Meds, you are better than this, i agree with you on a lot of things but increasing wage without a rise in productivity is actually asking for trouble.

 

[Total Power]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42682253

Scotland published their Brexit impact report, i wonder why do people in UK think life revolves around London only? Boris Johnson worried that the UK will become “just another Norway” - the country that consistently tops the rankings for quality of life, living standards and happiness.

You couldn't make it up. Not even in Shithole Britain.

So London and now Scotland have produced a report to examine the potential impact of Brexit. When will the department for Brexit produce one?

I'm looking forward to the Brexit loons such as Davis, Fox et al claiming that this assessment by the SNP, showing Brexit to be a disaster, is a load of rubbish and they can prove it by just showing their own Government assessments....

Oh wait...

 

[medusala]

Scotland published their Brexit impact report, i wonder why do people in UK think life revolves around London only?

The poisnonous dwarf is clueless. England is a far bigger market for Scotland than the UK but she wants to leave the former and stay in the EU

 

[Total Power]

The poisnonous dwarf is clueless. England is a far bigger market for Scotland than the UK but she wants to leave the former and stay in the EU

So Brexit has a different impact on Scotland than England. Why is she clueless? cause the report doesn't agree with your position?

 

[medusala]

How nice of you to quote selectively. Considered this?

The report was released hours after recruitment firm Morgan McKinley published a survey showing job vacancies in London’s finance industry fell 52 percent in December, the most in three years. .

There are other reasons for that apart from Brexit such as MIFID2 being implemented. That employed bundles of people. Bugger all jobs have left despite all the scares. Vacancies falling and job losses are hardly the same thing.

In any event the City is nowhere near as worried as the papers make out. They will book trades via a third party within the EU. How much of the Jersey funds management industry do you actually think works in Jersey?


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...r-not-rival-london-after-brexit-idUKKCN1051O5

 

[medusala]

It is easy to see how London would be disproportionately affected in terms of construction and skills, and both for the capital and beyond it is an absolute necessity that construction workers and built environment professionals, such as quantity surveyors, are added to the UK occupation shortage list.

Construction involves a huge number of different jobs. Some skilled, some not. its just special pleading from big business.

 

[medusala]

I showed you the maths already, including your figure of 9k, the contribution exceeds the cash AND non-cash expenses, that 9k figure came from you, not from me.

No you havent. To get to £9k in tax and NI you have to earn almost £40k. There is no way the av worker from Eastern Europe earns anywhere near that.

Not even close. So there is the free movement argument easily dismissed.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04033

 

[medusala]

Customs is a solvable problem just needs some capex. Of course the public service will stuff it up like they stuff up nearly everything but they will get there.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/833395/brexit-latest-dan-hannan-customs-union-twitter

The Tory MEP took to Twitter to go against some in his own party, including Chancellor Philip Hammond, who has spoken out against an independent trade policy.

Mr Hannan used the example of Singapore to show how a nation does not need to be a part of a customs union.

He described how the Asian powerhouse is able to provide customs clearance in just 10 seconds.

 

[Total Power]

Construction involves a huge number of different jobs. Some skilled, some not. its just special pleading from big business.

Yes but we are talking about construction workers (according to you low paying unskilled workers from Poland), bricklayers etc. There is a shortage of that now. I am not saying it, RCIS is.

 

[Total Power]

There are other reasons for that apart from Brexit such as MIFID2 being implemented. That employed bundles of people. Bugger all jobs have left despite all the scares. Vacancies falling and job losses are hardly the same thing.

In any event the City is nowhere near as worried as the papers make out. They will book trades via a third party within the EU. How much of the Jersey funds management industry do you actually think works in Jersey?


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...r-not-rival-london-after-brexit-idUKKCN1051O5

I am well aware of Jersey funds and i do not think it's a solution. Do you know how much economic output of industry GVA have fallen in the last 5 years? to say it's gonna be a saviour is a gross overstatement. Pretty much like the WTO'ers are saying WTO is the saviour, it's clearly not and it won't be.

The study also says this:

In the worst-case scenario in the Cambridge study, Prime Minister Theresa May would fail to secure a two-year transition to ease the passage for businesses, a situation that in London alone may create 87,000 fewer jobs and usher in 10 years of lower growth, Khan’s office said. Negotiations with the EU will resume in March, with the status of banks the new battleground of trade discussions.

 

[Total Power]

No you havent. To get to £9k in tax and NI you have to earn almost £40k. There is no way the av worker from Eastern Europe earns anywhere near that.

Not even close. So there is the free movement argument easily dismissed.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04033

So what is the non-cash cost of the Native British people compared to the Poles? how much is the government losing on that vs the Poles?

You will see that immigration from outside EU and native British people cost the government a lot more than Central and Eastern Europeans.

According to ONS data, immigrants from outside Europe cost UK 120 billion per year. The problem clearly are the native british and Non - EU people, cause i repeat you cannot quantify non-cash cost. I explained it to you why above. You cannot put a figure and say, this is the cost to the government, then my question is how do you account for non-cash contrubitions. You haven't answered this question, if i employ 100 people, what is my non-cash contribution to the 100 people that i am employing who might as be unemployed without me hiring them?

 

[Total Power]

Customs is a solvable problem just needs some capex. Of course the public service will stuff it up like they stuff up nearly everything but they will get there.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/833395/brexit-latest-dan-hannan-customs-union-twitter

The Tory MEP took to Twitter to go against some in his own party, including Chancellor Philip Hammond, who has spoken out against an independent trade policy.

Mr Hannan used the example of Singapore to show how a nation does not need to be a part of a customs union.

He described how the Asian powerhouse is able to provide customs clearance in just 10 seconds.

Dan Hannon??? i mean seriously???




If you believe there will be no change too customs at ports I suggest you speak to the british ports association who disagree. Singapore is a distinctly different case study, anyone who lived and worked in Singapore would know how different things work compared to the UK

The man changes colours more than you change your underwear.


So no one is talking about taking EU nations right away hey Dan? why did you vote for Leave then? so now after brexit he has reversed his position? clueless is an understatement. To quite express.co.uk, come on meds, you are better than this.

 

[medusala]

If you believe there will be no change too customs at ports I suggest you speak to the british ports association who disagree. Singapore is a distinctly different case study, anyone who lived and worked in Singapore would know how different things work compared to the UK

Yep, I lived in both HK and Singapore

Singapore is different due to so much transhipping but the point stands that technological advances have greatly diminished the issue

The Brits took seriously the EU dictate re security and started checking all EU passports at airports rather than waiving people through. Chaos. Twelve months later, large number of iris recognition machines in action and the problem was greatly diminished (and thats despite the home office employing the most useless, laziest bunch of no hopers to man the desks at Heathrow etc)

 

[medusala]

So what is the non-cash cost of the Native British people compared to the Poles? how much is the government losing on that vs the Poles?

You will see that immigration from outside EU and native British people cost the government a lot more than Central and Eastern Europeans.

Hopeless argument. So non skilled immigrants from Asia are even worse economically the UK should accept freedom of movement in the EU?

No. Utterly absurd. NO UNSKILLED MIGRATION. Simples. Treat everyone the same. No bigotry in favour of white people.

Ratts cant understand that but hey he's busy cleaning Wayne Swan's pool earning a $ so we should give him a small break.

 

[medusala]

According to ONS data, immigrants from outside Europe cost UK 120 billion per year.

LOL. Have I not said OVER and OVER that such non skilled immigration should end????

It's utter madness.

 

[Total Power]

Yep, I lived in both HK and Singapore

Singapore is different due to so much transhipping but the point stands that technological advances have greatly diminished the issue

The Brits took seriously the EU dictate re security and started checking all EU passports at airports rather than waiving people through. Chaos. Twelve months later, large number of iris recognition machines in action and the problem was greatly diminished (and thats despite the home office employing the most useless, laziest bunch of no hopers to man the desks at Heathrow etc)

So how multicultural you find Singapore? a third of the population are foreigners, they are not whinging about it, are they? Singapore is a very well run, hyper-modern mega-city with half the acreage of London. It was founded as a free port, and has managed to turn itself into the commercial, financial, legal, technological, and high-tech manufacturing hub of South East Asia. Maybe - just maybe - London could be Northern Europe's Singapore (minus the technological and manufacturing bits) if it became an independent city state. But to assume that the Singaporean model could be exported to a country covering the area of the UK is just plain nuts.

 

[medusala]

So how multicultural you find Singapore? a third of the population are foreigners, they are not whinging about it, are they? Singapore is a very well run, hyper-modern mega-city with half the acreage of London. It was founded as a free port, and has managed to turn itself into the commercial, financial, legal, technological, and high-tech manufacturing hub of South East Asia.

Another shining light of British imperialism of that there can be no doubt. As per Honkers.

Singapore has never really embraced expats, they are /were a necessary evil (or were when i was there). Much preferred HK.

Also as I am sure you are aware Singers was part of the Malaya federation until they weren't. Hardly a shining example of multiculturalism.

Bumiputra and all that.