Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[medusala]

UK's EFRA has called on the government to act urgently to protect UK's agriculture and specially the subsidies considering vast majority to UK's export and import is connected to the EU. Apparently according to brexiters dropping tariff to zero aussie style is the solution. LOL.

Yep it killed Oz ag. Oh hang on dont we have the most efficient farmers in the world? Oh yeah

And what happened to the UK car industry when subsidies were ended there? Oh yeah

Humour. Three arrows, none got near target

Hope you have a big quiver Brother.

 

[Total Power]

Hopeless argument. Just have seasonal worker visas. Simple solution

Why is there a blatanly obvious answer to all the piffle put about re EU apologists?

So unskilled labour is indeed necessary then? well that's a telling admission from your initial stance that unskilled labours are not required at all?? Good start meds my man

ALP disagrees with you, will Brexiters ever get any stats to support their hopeless argument?

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2018/01/26/Skills-crisis-highlighted-by-latest-research

The majority (70%) of food and beverage manufacturing companies are struggling or in crisis with regard to the supply of low and unskilled workers, a survey by the Association of Labour Providers (ALP) has revealed.




Argue against that! facts are not on your side i'm afraid

Also here:

https://www.farminguk.com/News/Gove...ur-supply-to-avoid-looming-crisis-_48515.html

The NPA said that the Government must look beyond seasonal agriculture workers schemes as the solution to any shortfall in EU workers.

"Whilst many businesses in the pig supply chain such as abattoirs, hauliers and processors do require seasonal labour, the vast majority of NPA members require permanent labour," the document states.

"Pig production is continuous, not seasonal, and good stockmanship requires an individual’s ongoing interaction with a pig herd and their intuition over the animals they are caring for.

"Because the majority of roles tend to be permanent, it means that individuals working on pig farms have to think seriously about their employment future, and opportunities for their family, as opposed to seasonal labour which provides greater flexibility.

"In the NPA’s survey, 90% of businesses who had migrant workers reported that they were employed on a permanent basis."





Come on meds provide me an argument that cannot be destroyed without blinking

 

[Total Power]

Yep it killed Oz ag. Oh hang on dont we have the most efficient farmers in the world? Oh yeah

And what happened to the UK car industry when subsidies were ended there? Oh yeah

Humour. Three arrows, none got near target

Hope you have a big quiver Brother.

Economics is not cut and paste mate, this is as naive as arguing Nordic model has worked in sweden hence it will work in US too. Australia with its natural resources, UK do not produce anything obviously unique (Burberry trenchcoats? Stilton?), which limits any hypothetical leverage with economies big enough to be worth the negotiating effort.Removing tariffs is not the solution , i pasted half a dozen studies here which agree with me. Australia can feed their own people UK cant, UK imports 80 percent of their food from the EU. and half of their exports go to EU.Australia is a part of several FTA and trading blocs and UK can remove all the tariffs that won't stop the Chinese or Indians to slap tariffs on UK exports making UK exports expensive.

Worst of all, UK domestic economy is geared towards the one thing other major economies are very reluctant to open up to free trade without massive concessions (cf India wanting blanket immigration rights in return): services.


You have to reciprocate the tariffs EU impose (if at all), considering more than half of UK exports go to EU.


You need to read outside of what express tells you mate

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Quoting Ian dunt? Have we fallen that low? Yep sure the planes will stop flying because Spain really wants to lose all those Brit tourists.

Remoaners getting more desperate by the day.

You are such a dickhead. When 31 December 2020 comes you'll no doubt insist the predictable economic and social decline of the UK wasn't inevitable or self-inflincted. Brexit wasn't the problem! Brexit was fine! Execution and those big baddies in Brussels assholing us wot done it! We aren't Singapore enough!! Me and the Rees-Mogg nutjobs are not culpable!!! That ******* bitch (you'll say bitch) May had no idea!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You are such a dickhead. When 31 December 2020 comes you'll no doubt insist the predictable economic and social decline of the UK wasn't inevitable or self-inflincted. Brexit wasn't the problem! Brexit was fine! Execution and those big baddies in Brussels assholing us wot done it! We aren't Singapore enough!! Me and the Rees-Mogg nutjobs are not culpable!!! That ******* bitch (you'll say bitch) May had no idea!

Need more blaming muslim migration

 

[Total Power]

laughable by them. A fall in migration will need more resources. Yes ok. Its like the Guardian stupidly arguing Brexit means higher food prices.

You really make me laugh. The issue will be that no-one will be able to afford 'British' food and yet much cheaper food from all over the world (including the EU) will be sold in UK supermarkets without restriction. What do you think people are going to buy? I recently lived in Switzerland for a couple of months and at my local branch of Migro (one of two big Swiss grocers) I noted that you could buy Swiss lamb, Irish lamb, Welsh Lamb and New Zealand Lamb. The Welsh lamb was by far the most expensive and the NZ lamb was half the price of all the others. It was a no brainer about what type to buy.

how do you explain a KG of carrots in the UK costs 3 times more than in Poland costs? How do you explain a kg of chicken breast costs 4 times more in the UK than in Spain? Surely everyone pays for CAP but it seems some wanna get more profit than others so it seems naive to blame CAP for corporate greed in the UK.

But but but but don't the noddies in your quitter faction want to sign trade deals all over the world? And won't these trade deals include cheap food (after all, Rees-Mogg has been applying the cheap food, clothing and footwear cream for months now)?

And won't cheap food exports decimate British farming?

Please also tell me who will be growing bananas, pineapples and oranges in the UK in future.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

how do you explain a KG of carrots in the UK costs 3 times more than in Poland costs?

Muslims raise the cost of produce in the UK because of the need to scan carrots for bombs

How do you explain a kg of chicken breast costs 4 times more in the UK than in Spain?

Muslims raise the cost of growing chickens in the UK because they have to be Halal

Please also tell me who will be growing bananas, pineapples and oranges in the UK in future.

good british white people. not being able to grow these fruits in the UK was just an excuse used by lazy muslims to force white people to buy them from muslim countries

 

[Total Power]

Farms cutting back and considering moving overseas because of brexit.

"Really if only someone had known. If only we had an expert who would have said something."

oh .. hang on that's right we did.

I can still hear those brexiteers who said removing cheap foreign labour would result in everyone suddenly being paid more.

I never thought I'd get tired of saying we told you so,

It would be funny if it didn't affect so many peoples lives.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nty-cut-jobs-agriculture-cap-eu-a8208671.html

 

[Total Power]

Muslims raise the cost of produce in the UK because of the need to scan carrots for bombs


Muslims raise the cost of growing chickens in the UK because they have to be Halal


good british white people. not being able to grow these fruits in the UK was just an excuse used by lazy muslims to force white people to buy them from muslim countries

There are millions of very fat jobless Brits in the UK that are living on social care. Why not cut their benefits and send them to work in those farms?
It would save lots of money to the social budget and would make those Brits more fit and less prone to burden the NHS.

And since they all voted Brexit, it would have the additional advantage of making them think twice before they vote next time! So it would even have benefits for the quality of your democracy.

Who would've thought Brexit would have so many virtues!
HAHAHA!

 

[Total Power]

Excellent, meds! remember we are fear mongering! Brextieers are so wise including the vacuum cleaner maker and Garage

https://nltimes.nl/2018/02/22/unilever-expected-pick-rotterdam-fleeing-uks-brexit

The British government is expecting that Unilever will pick Rotterdam for its head office after the United Kingdom leaves the European Union - the so called Brexit, the Financial Times reports based on information from government officials. Unilever refused to comment.

Unilever, a British-Dutch multinational, employs 169 thousand people world wide, including 7,500 in the U.K. and around 3 thousand in the Netherlands. The company currently has a shared headquarters in London and in Rotterdam. The entire head office employs 100 people - 60 in London and 40 in Rotterdam.


British Prime Minister Theresa May is taking into account that the Unilever head office will leave London, according to the newspaper. The final decision has not yet been made, but will be announced before the end of March, Unilever confirmed.

While Unilever previously stated that this decision has nothing to do with the Brexit - the company wants a simpler management structure wit a single head office - the government officials that spoke to the Financial Times are convinced that the Brexit is directly involved.

 

[Total Power]

Btw: U.K. exports missed target, coming in -0.2% for Q4, whilst imports rose by 1.5%. Oops. That manufacturing Renaissance, in the sunny uplands a weak pound creates, isn’t going too well eh?

 

[Total Power]

EU rules out UK's preferred approach to future trade deal

So predictable that you really have to wonder what they are smoking in the British government. Not just them, but all those reports in the media over the last week claiming that the EU would accept the cakeist nonsense. (Hello express and daily fail)

The EU27 have to move on quickly to formulating policies that mitigate damage rather than wait for collapse. The Netherlands and Ireland are already putting things in place to deal with customs but the EU needs to look at aid to get producers out of troubled markets and either into new market or new products. On the other hand UK is still waiting for the official report to be out after the leaks. Do they have a clue how customs is going to operate? or like Meds said above "its already there" , nothing else needs to be done.

 

[Total Power]

Even the (former) WTO head describes no deal as a cliff edge.

Yet STILL the Wrexiters seem ready to jump!

It's a cliff. Wake up! No-one voluntarily jumps over a cliff!!!

It does not matter.

Brixiteers simply will not listen.

They do NOT listen to 'experts', ever.

They prefer the constant repetition of their dogmas.

You cannot use facts or logic to debate with what is, essentially, a religious/magical mindset.

Extricating Britain from the EU will be “as difficult as removing an egg from an omelette”, and will almost certainly take far longer than the two-year transition period due to begin in March 2019, the former director-general of the World Trade Organisation has warned.

Giving evidence to the Brexit committee in Parliament, Pascal Lamy, who led the WTO between 2005 and 2013, said that he was “now free enough to say what I think”.

He went on: “Trade-wise Brexit was like removing an egg from an omelette. The UK is in the internal market part of the omelette, which was stirred for many, many years, and moving back from that is inevitably a very complex issue technically, leaving aside the politics.

“Getting this done is as difficult as getting an egg out of an omelette. Which is why I think it will take a long time.”

Asked what would happen if the clock on the two-year transition ran down and there was no final trade deal, Mr Lamy – who was also an EU trade commissioner between 1999 and 2004 – said that the UK would have to choose between a cliff-edge Brexit, in which tariffs would go up, and requesting an extension.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-trade-organisation-uk-leave-eu-a8230961.html

I wonder if daily fail or express is reporting this??

 

[donkeypunchd]

You’re all focused on the wrong issues. Trade is an issue obviously but this new talk from the British cabinet about re-imposing hard borders on Ireland is setting the UK on a collision course with the EU27 and most importantly with Ireland.

The hard border they talk about is uncontrollable without doing what was done previously - destroying bridges along the border, setting up customs and security checkpoints, never to mind the casual disregard for the adversity this will create for the Irish economy and society.

This is creating a promising environment for the dormant paramilitary organisations. One such group, the INLA (best known for blowing up a Tory MP in the Westminster parliament car park) put on a show of strength not seen since the days of the Troubles



It’s worth remembering that at the height of the Troubles each of the paramilitary groups had only a few hundred active volunteers at any one stage, a hard border will be a magnet for trouble.

The issue here isn’t trade (again showing the deep and abiding ignorance in Britain of what the border means to Irish people North and South as well as our miserable, bloody shared history) it’s the clear disregard for a small and friendly neighbouring country, purely for party political gains.

 

[Total Power]

If this weren't so serious I would be grabbing my popcorn to watch UK's bumbling fools in government try to spin their way out of this. Reality is they have no sensible suggestions. This is a major problem Mr Johnson, stop saying it isn't and be upfront: the UK is going to have a hard border within its own territory or we have a hard Brexit. Either way you have to go back to the people of this country because you have no mandate for either.

boris johnson has told us numerous times that solving the border issue while still leaving the customs union and the single market is not ‘beyond the wit of man’. Perhaps Boris should give that man a call and ask him to jot something down for the negotiations.

UK signed the Good Friday Agreement a UN registered treaty under International law , the days of British slurs against Ireland are long past as the fact that Ireland was illegally occupied no votes to leave the Empire with no Democracy for its people, England does still have a lot to learn. Britain to give lessons in Democracy to the EU and Ireland!! What a joke! Britain's history is that of a tyranny invading and subjugating other nations. Now it is the end. Enough! But Britain hasn't learnt its lesson yet! Brexit will definitely teach Britain a lesson in humility when it is utterly destroyed by its own arrogance and stupidity!

UK wants a hard border with the EU.

UK doesn't want a hard border between Ireland and NI.

Ireland in is in the EU.

NI is in UK.

Sooo...UK wants an open hard border between Ireland and NI.

UK has no idea how to square the circle, hasn't even been trying to square the circle.

EU's fall back position, in the event that the UK fails to find a solution, should surely be a hard border between UK and EU (and therefore between Ireland and NI). Unless NI (or Scotland, for that matter) find some way to stay in the EU without the rest of the UK. The EU can only exercise control over its own border (which doesn't currently include the border between NI and the rest of the UK)


Idiots!

 

[Total Power]

Garage on LBC Radio, agreeing with Boooooringsh Johnson: "This vexing issue of the Irish border was hardly mentioned before Britain’s historic June 2016 vote to leave the European Union."

There's a lot of relevant things that were hardly mentioned before the Brexit vote you flog. You lied to people and got their vote. Take it from me, those who voted for Brexit are stupid and, even now, can't produce any evidence as to why it would be better than being part of the EU.

The two main idiots of this brexit debacle are the disgusting nigel farage, who was seen groveling in trump tower after the elections, and the mop headed boris johnson, and they both ran with their tails between their legs once their brexit gambit turned into reality.

 

[Total Power]

im getting desperate to understand what brexiteers actually want. So far what I understood:

1- They don't want to be in the Single Market and Customs Union. But they don't want tariff and non-tariff barriers on goods and services.
2- They want to take back control of their borders. But they don't want a border with Ireland/EU.
3- They want to move to WTO rules. But WTO rules say that there must be a border between two different custom areas.
4- The EU is bulling the UK. But "they need us more than we need them".
5- The UK is leaving. But the EU is punishing the UK. How if the UK is virtually out?

Honestly, could any brexiteer be nice and clarify this for me?

France could always ship over non-EU migrants to Donegal, give them 50 Euros for the 50km trip to Londonderry, and a "welcome to Britain" immigration pack.

That would focus the minds of the DUP and Westminster pretty quickly.

 

[donkeypunchd]

Garage on LBC Radio, agreeing with Boooooringsh Johnson: "This vexing issue of the Irish border was hardly mentioned before Britain’s historic June 2016 vote to leave the European Union."

There's a lot of relevant things that were hardly mentioned before the Brexit vote you flog. You lied to people and got their vote. Take it from me, those who voted for Brexit are stupid and, even now, can't produce any evidence as to why it would be better than being part of the EU.

The two main idiots of this brexit debacle are the disgusting nigel farage, who was seen groveling in trump tower after the elections, and the mop headed boris johnson, and they both ran with their tails between their legs once their brexit gambit turned into reality.

This hypocrisy would be ridiculous if it weren’t for the fact Farage and his minions are trying to foment division within the Irish political system by attempting to set up a Eurosxeptic movement here - unusually for the Irish parliament all major parties have taken a collective stance on the border issue as a matter of national strategic interest, Farage’s attempt to sow division is purely aimed at undermining this collective response.

 

[The Speaker]

im getting desperate to understand what brexiteers actually want. So far what I understood:

1- They don't want to be in the Single Market and Customs Union. But they don't want tariff and non-tariff barriers on goods and services.
2- They want to take back control of their borders. But they don't want a border with Ireland/EU.
3- They want to move to WTO rules. But WTO rules say that there must be a border between two different custom areas.
4- The EU is bulling the UK. But "they need us more than we need them".
5- The UK is leaving. But the EU is punishing the UK. How if the UK is virtually out?

Honestly, could any brexiteer be nice and clarify this for me?

France could always ship over non-EU migrants to Donegal, give them 50 Euros for the 50km trip to Londonderry, and a "welcome to Britain" immigration pack.

That would focus the minds of the DUP and Westminster pretty quickly.

following this thread has become tiresome as it's basically just you complaining over and over and over and over, but peter hitchens summed up the problem on his blog recently, which may help you:

Either way, there seems to be a calculation here that the passions of June 2016 are weakening, that the strange coalition which achieved the majority for exit nearly two years ago either does not exist any more, or lacks coherence and force, and can be taken on . Which means that Mr Corbyn has finally been seduced by the promise of Downing Street, and has begun to dream of himself taking his seat among its pillars and portraits, while El Gato rips at the curtains and ousts Larry from his accustomed post. He presumably thinks that we will be out of the EU enough to calm the stirrings of his Bennite conscience, and to keep the ghost of the great Tony (no, not that Tony, the other Tony) from walking, wailing ‘Woe!’, through the halls of Number Ten at midnight.

He may be right about the anti-EU coalition. As far as I can identify it, it is in four parts. The first, including me, simply wanted self-government, the control of laws and Parliament, currency, army and frontiers. The paradoxical thing for me is those most British things I cared about, such as customary weights and measures, counties, common law, jury trial, the presumption of innocence and habeas corpus have died anyway, because hardly anyone cares about them, and leaving the EU won’t bring them back.

The second has the mad idea that if we leave the EU, and can negotiate our own trade deals, the world will be pounding at our doors to buy all the exciting goods we no longer make. The third, mostly composed of habitual Labour voters, was furious about mass immigration and wanted it stopped, but would never have voted Tory to achieve this and never will. The fourth (perhaps the biggest of all) is made up of people who (quite wrongly) believed that the original Common Market was purely an economic and trading arrangement, as it might be, a customs union and a single market, and just didn’t like the political bits.

None of these three groups much like each other, My lot, I can confidently say, would be very happy with Norway even if the Economist backed it. The free marketeers have very little mass support. The Labour voters, now that UKIP has shrivelled back into its shell like a salted mollusc, have nowhere else to go. And the ‘If only it had just remained as single market and a customs union’ lot can hardly be cross if we stay in either the customs union, the single market, or both.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co...use-there-so-seldom-seems-to-be-any-real.html

 

[Total Power]

following this thread has become tiresome as it's basically just you complaining over and over and over and over, but peter hitchens summed up the problem on his blog recently, which may help you:



http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co...use-there-so-seldom-seems-to-be-any-real.html

Complaining? what complaining? these problems are very real and sorry i am attempting to discuss the issues as i go on which you see as complaining? nevermind thenm put me under block and have your say in the thread.

 

[The Speaker]

Complaining? what complaining? these problems are very real and sorry i am attempting to discuss the issues as i go on which you see as complaining? nevermind thenm put me under block and have your say in the thread.

I was curious to see whether you were genuinely interested or purely asking for rhetorical reason. Given you took the bait and didn't say a word about the thing that actually answered your question, I can only assume it was rhetoric.

 

[Total Power]

This hypocrisy would be ridiculous if it weren’t for the fact Farage and his minions are trying to foment division within the Irish political system by attempting to set up a Eurosxeptic movement here - unusually for the Irish parliament all major parties have taken a collective stance on the border issue as a matter of national strategic interest, Farage’s attempt to sow division is purely aimed at undermining this collective response.

Trump slapping tariffs let right and centre on American imports in his 'America First' program. But America promised the best deal for UK. Why not send Johnson and Farage to do something useful for a change

 

[Total Power]

I was curious to see whether you were genuinely interested or purely asking for rhetorical reason. Given you took the bait and didn't say a word about the thing that actually answered your question, I can only assume it was rhetoric.

I have nothing but discussed the topic in hand in this thread. Glad you felt the need to "bait" someone in, well done. Carry on

 

[The Speaker]

I have nothing but discussed the topic in hand in this thread. Glad you felt the need to "bait" someone in, well done. Carry on

Did the quoted passage help you understand what 'Brexiteers' want or not, as you claimed you wanted to know?

 

[Total Power]

Did the quoted passage help you understand what 'Brexiteers' want or not, as you claimed you wanted to know?

It doesn't answer how can they talk about leaving the Customs union joining the WTO and talk about no borders with the EU/Ireland. These 2 things are in direct conflict with each other.