Opinion Brian Cook

[iameviljez]

Would have done better for our draft prospects, maybe not so our player poaching from other clubs though

Yeah but there's also the question of culture. I mean, despite all their drafting access, look at just what an effort it takes to get cellar dwellar clubs out of the arse end of the league.

StKilda managed it twice (once in the 90s, and once again under Grant Thomas), Richmond is doing it, Carlton still sucks and Melbourne has fought their culture for years and years.

If you are going to bottom out, you want to do a Hawthorn - have two seasons where you're near the bottom but not totally bereft, then ping straight back up.

 

[frggr]

Yeah but there's also the question of culture. I mean, despite all their drafting access, look at just what an effort it takes to get cellar dwellar clubs out of the arse end of the league.

StKilda managed it twice (once in the 90s, and once again under Grant Thomas), Richmond is doing it, Carlton still sucks and Melbourne has fought their culture for years and years.

If you are going to bottom out, you want to do a Hawthorn - have two seasons where you're near the bottom but not totally bereft, then ping straight back up.

Agreed. I was being (mostly) tongue in cheek

 

[thecatattack]

Would have done better for our draft prospects, maybe not so our player poaching from other clubs though

Not if we're wasting our top picks on Watts, Scully, Trengove etc

 

[Mahlepi]

Not if we're wasting our top picks on Watts, Scully, Trengove etc

no we wasted them on smedts, caddy, stanley, tenace

 

[frggr]

Not if we're wasting our top picks on Watts, Scully, Trengove etc

Reckon we could've made something of Wattsy.

And $cully would never have left us!

 

[Mahlepi]

i am not sure where anyone is arguing they would prefer to not be in the finals

but people who do not put their own hand in their pocket for a ticket should not be criticising people who work hard for not stumping up to a final after they have outlined their issues with friday night games

LET alone give KB and truck more amo, at the end of the day the money from the finals goes to the AFL and not geelong

 

[Fyre]

I was responding to the claim that it would have been better to have never made finals. (And, yeah, also saying it's a bit of a FWP - some perspective can come in handy). I agree that our finals performance have been a problem, but seriously, there's a bit of babies and bathwater here.

I can see both sides of the coin and I certainly hope you didn't think I was having a ping.

This period now feels like the 90's all over again. Good performances by a team with a few guns but a core average list and failing on the big stage. Even the term handbagger is getting wheeled out again. Would be bringing back some painful memories/feelings so I can understand the angst.

As to the core issue about people turning up to the game, it is all about cost these days. Going to the footy can be a bloody expensive day out. Zero wage inflation in the system but utilities and health insurance increase by 8% per annum. People have less to spend so something has to give. $92 for a ticket last week. Times 3. Adds up.

 

[Cool Cat]

This is not a crisis at all. Get a grip.

I have. You should have seen me on Friday night mate.

Perhaps we have a different definition of crisis, but we are not producing the results and a pattern has well and truly emerged. Something needs to happen to break this malaise, and the reports that Scott still has relationship issues with the playing group (six years into his tenure, mind you) does nothing to allay my misgivings.

I have no issue with cook btw, total gun.

 

[thecatattack]

no we wasted them on smedts, caddy, stanley, tenace

Smedts got us Tuohy so that was a great pick

 

[Cool Cat]

The lows of the club are what made our premiership run so special tbh.

44yrs, late 80s/90s close calls, our club teetering on the edge of being nothing, the disappointment of 2006 and the fact Bomber was almost sacked with players threatening to leave etc etc.

I think our huge success from 07-11 has put some absurdly high expectations on the club from our supporters.

The last 11yrs we have 10 finals performances and 9 top 4 finishes, record membership numbers, huge stadium redevelopments, profits and revenue in the green.

It's staggering what our club has become and absurd that our fans aren't happy with it.

That stuff is all great, winning those flags was a beautiful thing, but we haven't been competitive in our last five finals campaigns and number six is headed the same way. If that is good enough for you please enjoy it. Take me out the back and shoot me, but I just want to see a competitive performance

 

[JumpyHolden]

Smedts got us Tuohy so that was a great pick

So in reality Tuohy cost us 2 first rounders.

 

[iameviljez]

Agreed. I was being (mostly) tongue in cheek

Oh I know that you were! I was more referring to some of the conversation going on above you.

 

[Cool Cat]

A series of finishes from third through seventh, when we've been about the third to sixth best team, is nowhere near a crisis.

How many of those games were we favourite in? How many did we win? How many were we completely uncompetitive in?

Edit: when we finish second on the ladder I expect us to have a fair dinkum crack in the finals. Is that unreasonable?

 

[Cool Cat]

We are working to fix them.

We'll be trying to get like Ablett, Stringer, Smith and shit this off-season

We've strengthened our side previously with Danger, Tuohy, Henderson, Smith etc recently too

The club isn't just sitting there twiddling their thumbs.

Fair point, but the performances haven't changed. That's why I think we need to look at the coach now. I don't want to accept mediocrity, surely we are in this to win it?

 

[Cool Cat]

Smedts got us Tuohy so that was a great pick

No, it was a lucky save - but I am being pedantic ;-)

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I recall in his Open Mike interview, Cook claimed a problem with Geelong when he took the role that the club was too focused on individuals. People turned up to watch stars play, not the team. It is interesting, then, that after rectifying this under Bomber Thompson, the club has seemingly drifted back into a state of individualism the last few years with an over-emphasis on individual players who can serve as saviours for the club. It's all about Dangerfield and Selwood, and when you watch the team play, it's apparent that it's not a cohesive group effort but rather a number of players just trying to play their own game. Every year now, what excites Geelong fans is not the finals or the prospect of a premiership; it's which recruit Geelong will take from another club to finally fix all their problems. Will it be Ablett? Stringer? Smith?

Cook has been fantastic for the club, but I think he is representative of a lot of the staff at Geelong who have become complacent and soft. They no longer feel the need to push to be the best. Rather than asking questions of those who can effect change, they take shots at the supporters when they express concern that Geelong, despite finishing top 2 several times the last few years, has only once beaten a top 4 side in a final since 2011 (and that was because Smith missed a shot after the siren). A few people at the club who have allowed their reputation to inflate their ego to such a point that they see no means of improvement the club can pursue. Wells is the other one. Revered for so long, considered a near-faultless recruiter by many, a draft guru of sorts, but since the turn of the decade, his wacky left-of-field selections have been nothing short of abysmal. He gets a lot of slack because his recruiting in the late 90s/early 00s produced the group that yielded a flag, but you have to wonder how long that can last.

Cook is right, though, when he says that finals are hard to make. The contrasts people make between Geelong and clubs that finish outside the 8 are fair. But if finals are hard to make, if it's a rare, enviable position to be in, shouldn't we expect Geelong to be making more of it? Because we all know it won't last forever. Eventually it'll end, and when we look at this period, will we say the club made the most of its chances? Four top 4 finishes since 2011 for just two wins, no GF appearances, likely two straight-sets exits, and keep in mind that none of these finals have been played outside of Victoria.

 

[iameviljez]

This period now feels like the 90's all over again. Good performances by a team with a few guns but a core average list and failing on the big stage. Even the term handbagger is getting wheeled out again. Would be bringing back some painful memories/feelings so I can understand the angst.

I totally agree with this - it feels completely like the 90s. We've got the best player in the league plus a top-five midfielder, one of the better full-forwards in the game and an excellent swingman... but we do have our Schulz, Malakellis, Cameron-type equivalents (sorry, boys).

That said - our lack of list depth isn't entirely on us - some of it is us (trading good picks for Stanley, McIntosh, two picks for Smith and not getting enough in return for Vardy, as well as Motlop/Murdoch/Guthrie not quite realising potential) but a lot of it is poor luck (losing the best of Menzel, Vardy, Christensen) and some of it is just the effect of being up for so long and having no access to good picks.

 

[iameviljez]

How many of those games were we favourite in? How many did we win? How many were we completely uncompetitive in?

Edit: when we finish second on the ladder I expect us to have a fair dinkum crack in the finals. Is that unreasonable?

I agree with all of the above - the only finals where we have performed about where I expected were our two outings against Hawthorn in 2013/14 - but... crisis?

Found out, I think. Our ability to drag ourselves over the line against middle-rung teams - and play at Kardinia Park - is unparalleled, and serves us well in H&A.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Anyone think finals are a bit pricey?
I can understand last week, was a massive game with maaaive atmosphere.
But this week? The place is gonna be maybe half full & $100 for a family to sit up the very very top of the Southern Stand.
Still works out cheaper than going to KP (LOL) but a bit pricey for me this week as I gotta a lot bills coming up.
(not sure Cooky should be whinging about fans turning up. He charges like a Greek Rhinoceros during the H&A season.)

 

[The Casey Cat]

Really? Would you prefer to have been a Melbourne supporter all that time? Really?!?

Is that what I said exactly? I said it's about the same in my eyes. Not better to miss.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I agree with all of the above - the only finals where we have performed about where I expected were our two outings against Hawthorn in 2013/14 - but... crisis?

Found out, I think. Our ability to drag ourselves over the line against middle-rung teams - and play at Kardinia Park - is unparalleled, and serves us well in H&A.

Bit of a crisis I think. I don't think it that we just get found out, it's the repetitive nature of HOW we lose.
The coaches should be treating it as a crisis actually if we do it again.

 

[The Casey Cat]

No.

Making the Finals in any way is 100x better than not making them if you think otherwise you're a damn idiot.

Sure making finals is nice. Experienced players simultaneously going down like a bag of shit in them year after year is not. Yes, is at the point now where any finals we've made previously was about as useful as missing out altogether as this group refuses to confront their issues. Close competitive losses I can deal with. Looking flat, disinterested, disorganised and pathetic from the start? I'm fatigued of seeing that.

 

[SkittleCats]

Im reluctant to criticise Cook, he has been monumental for this Club. But i read that article this morning and nearly put my fist through my ****ing computer monitor.

How dare he publicly state the fans might be fatigued from finals. How dare he state, without any clear acknowledgment, that there might have been just a few extenuating circumstances that make it hard for Geelong people to attend a Friday night final. Circumstances that explain why it is without a doubt our worst time slot for games played in Melbourne. How naive is he, or how indoctrinated into the AFL's rhetoric is he, to slam the fans of his own club rather than acknowledge the AFL didnt give a **** about us when they put the game on a Friday night. How weak is he to turn on us but not say a bloody thing about the AFL constantly shafting us by refusing to give us a) 11 home games at KP and b) home finals at KP regardless of opponent. You dont have to expect the AFL will ever give us a home final at KP vs a big Melbourne club, but you can try, and you can try publicly, thats what the fans want to see, you fighting for us, not the AFL's interests. And how ignorant is he to think that the fans will turn out to watch us play in a final when the club over the last 6 years has made a habit of embarrassing those fans in those finals. I dont expect you to win, i expect you to try, and the club has fallen short of that with the stupid calls Scott has made. Where is the criticism from Cook in regards to Scotts selection balls up re: Menzel? And playing kids in a cut throat final while he leaves more mature players on the side lines.

I've lost a bit of respect for Cook after reading that article. I think we have been sold short the last few years with the clubs administration, we have too many people in the hierarchy who are too intimate with the AFL for my liking. Stephen Hocking, Cook, and Carter either have spent time there or clearly aspire to to be there. And i think it's having a demonstrably negative influence on the running and decision making of the club. Hopefully they prove me wrong and appoint a replacement for Hocking who is a blood-thirsty, one-eyed Geelong man who has been around the block a few times and doesnt give a shit about the AFL...but im not holding out much hope.

 

[GeneticCat]

Im reluctant to criticise Cook, he has been monumental for this Club. But i read that article this morning and nearly put my fist through my ******* computer monitor.

How dear he publicly state the fans might be fatigued from finals. How dare he state, without any clear acknowledgment, that there might have been just a few extenuating circumstances that make it hard for Geelong people to attend a Friday night final. Circumstances that explain why it is without a doubt our worst time slot for games played in Melbourne. How naive is he, or how indoctrinated into the AFL's rhetoric is he, to slam the fans of his own club rather than acknowledge the AFL didnt give a **** about us when they put the game on a Friday night. How weak is he to turn on us but not say a bloody thing about the AFL constantly shafting us by refusing to give us a) 11 home games at KP and b) home finals at KP regardless of opponent. You dont have to expect the AFL will ever give us a home final at KP vs a big Melbourne club, but you can try, and you can try publicly, thats what the fans want to see, you fighting for us, not the AFL's interests. And how ignorant is he to think that the fans will turn out to watch us play in a final when the club over the last 6 years has made a habit of embarrassing those fans in those finals. I dont expect you to win, i expect you to try, and the club has fallen short of that with the stupid calls Scott has made. Where is the criticism from Cook in regards to Scotts selection balls up re: Menzel? And playing kids in a cut throat final while he leaves more mature players on the side lines.

I've lost a bit of respect for Cook after reading that article. I think we have been sold short the last few years with the clubs administration, we have too many people in the hierarchy who are too intimate with the AFL for my liking. Stephen Hocking, Cook, and Carter either have spent time there or clearly aspire to to be there. And i think it's having a demonstrably negative influence on the running and decision making of the club. Hopefully they prove me wrong and appoint a replacement for Hocking who is a blood-thirsty, one-eyed Geelong man who has been around the block a few times and doesnt give a shit about the AFL...but im not holding out much hope.

If you believe the AFL is the "Anti-Cats" why would you think anything our people say privately or publicly would sway them in our favour one bit?!? Attacking the AFL is pointless and sending in a "bloodthirsty, one-eyed Geelong man" is asking to be the laughing stock of the comp! You fight the battles you can win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SkittleCats]

If you believe the AFL is the "Anti-Cats" why would you think anything our people say privately or publicly would sway them in our favour one bit?!? Attacking the AFL is pointless and sending in a "bloodthirsty, one-eyed Geelong man" is asking to be the laughing stock of the comp! You fight the battles you can win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except we arent winning any battles at the moment, either on or off the field.

The AFL isnt Anti-Cats, they're anti anything that makes them less money. And while i dont expect that the AFL will change it's policy regarding finals at the MCG, it wouldnt be hard for Cook to say "we want the game to be played at KP and thats what we are pushing for". It shows to the Geelong faithful that atleast the club is trying to do whats in the best interests of its supporters. Instead he publicly slams the clubs supporters for an entirely predictable situation last Friday night.