Brian Lake thinks that Cyril is cream on the cake player, not the cake?

[HeHateMe]

we he plays well we play well is more accurate.

 

[HeHateMe]

I would have thought that directly creating a goal means either kicking it yourself, assisting someone else, or maybe creating a spillage in the forward 50, allowing a teammate to gather and kick a regulation goal. I would like to see his direct influence on these eight goals.

Yes and No, in todays footy a ball cen be won on the HBF and its a certain goal. Rioli won a few 1v3 contests up the ground and from that point we out number WC going fwd so it's pretty much uncontested ball. On a stat sheet it's 1 CP. to the team its worth quite a bit more. Influence does not always show on stat sheets. well that's my opinion.

 

[blue harvest]

Stop looking at stats people. Rioli's chase/tackle/pressure/tap/intercepts set up at least 21 of our 19 goals.

 

[ZingerB]

Mate, Tendulkar is the second best batsmen to ever play the game I thought that was common knowledge?

2 people in the same era have made over 12,000 runs at a better average, one can bowl, the other can keep. Sobers 8000 runs at 57.8, as elegant as Tendulkar and could bowl. Sobers career spanned over 20 years, Chanderpaul's was 21 years, so don't give me any of this they didn't do it for long enough crap that you would pull on the other 10-15 blokes who have a considerably better average than Tendulkar. Importantly, Chanderpaul spent half his career as a one man band at 3 instead of Tendulkar being protected by some of the best batsmen ever to play in Sehwag and Dravid. But yeah, I would expect a Rioli sycophant to say 'but but ... that coverdrive'.

 

[ZingerB]

Stop looking at stats people. Rioli's chase/tackle/pressure/tap/intercepts set up at least 21 of our 19 goals.

I'll remember to start a thread about why Brad Ebert is the greatest midfielder ever because of his two way running and tackling.

 

[ZingerB]

Its annoying that people are allowed to sink the boots into cyril when he is down but after a great game the supporters who didnt see him play start whinging.

Blah blah 15 touches and a goal.

No one who watch his game today would bother referencing stat sheets.
He wasnt best on ground or anything but he was back to his destructive best ball in hand and pressure. As a hawk fan i am stoked to see his mojo return.

Just let it go for a week!!!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You seem to think that the other small forwards are only as good as their stat sheets. Wingard brings the ball down in marking contests like a KPF, Eddie Betts pushes KPD that are 15+ kgs heavier like ragdolls. If you were interested, Wingard had the second most tackles on the ground last week with 10, but yeah Rioli's defensive pressure was much better and valuable then the extra 10 touches Wingard had because everyone has a Rioli Radar that makes their sphincter shrivel up and automatically give the ball to Hawthorn.

 

[HeHateMe]

You seem to think that the other small forwards are only as good as their stat sheets.

do i?
You could not be more off the mark.
No clue mate, ive only ever posted glowingly about wingard.

Im not going to comment on the rest of your post because it was built on false logic.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

So Brian Lakes right?

That sounds like a summary of what I would imagine a 'cream on the cake' player to be. I think people have misinterpreted what I presume Lake was getting at, that you can't win many games if your best player is getting fifteen disposals and one goal, no matter how much pressure he is putting on.

You can, however, win premierships if Rioli is playing he did yesterday, yet there are 4-5 other players that are contributing the 30+ disposals, or 3+ goals.



I would have thought that directly creating a goal means either kicking it yourself, assisting someone else, or maybe creating a spillage in the forward 50, allowing a teammate to gather and kick a regulation goal. I would like to see his direct influence on these eight goals.

I actually think in a lot of ways he is right. But I also think it's being harsh on him as well.

Rioli is a small forward, elite in his position of defensive small forward. He also rarely wastes a possession which makes his 15 worthwhile. The thing is, as a small forward, you are hugely reliant on the midfield ahead of you, no different to a tall forward.

I would think most people on here would think that Tom Hawkins, as an example, is an important player for Geelong. yet over his career he averages less posessions, less tackles and only marginally more goals a game than rioli (about 0.6 goals a game more).

Last year, they both averaged just over 2 goals a game, and around the same posessions (rioli about 1 possession more), Rioli 3.5 more tackles a game, whilst Hawkins marked slightly more (5.5 to 3.7). So their impact is largely the same, yet one is deemed an important player, the other cream on the cake.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I would think most people on here would think that Tom Hawkins, as an example, is an important player for Geelong. yet over his career he averages less posessions, less tackles and only marginally more goals a game than rioli (about 0.6 goals a game more).

Last year, they both averaged just over 2 goals a game, and around the same posessions (rioli about 1 possession more), Rioli 3.5 more tackles a game, whilst Hawkins marked slightly more (5.5 to 3.7). So their impact is largely the same, yet one is deemed an important player, the other cream on the cake.

That's a baffling comparison. Hawkins isn't the cream on the cake for Geelong, because he's been the Cats' only consistent forward target for about five years straight. He plays a role where he couldn't be part of the supporting cast (yet another reason why all the Dangerwood comments are so funny).

Whenever Hawkins has been fit over that period, Geelong has directed an incredible number of its forward 50 entries to him and pretty much just hoped for the best. Everything is directed through Hawkins (well, we live in hope that Aaron Black will succeed, where Podsiadly, Brown, Kersten, Walker, Vardy and probably Taylor have failed) and the fact that he is always right up at the top of the league for marks inside 50 and contested marks is reflective of that.

 

[Smooth Banana]

You seem to think that the other small forwards are only as good as their stat sheets. Wingard brings the ball down in marking contests like a KPF, Eddie Betts pushes KPD that are 15+ kgs heavier like ragdolls. If you were interested, Wingard had the second most tackles on the ground last week with 10, but yeah Rioli's defensive pressure was much better and valuable then the extra 10 touches Wingard had because everyone has a Rioli Radar that makes their sphincter shrivel up and automatically give the ball to Hawthorn.

Wingard? Don't even go there. Good player but not even close.

 

[Smooth Banana]

This is 11-20 best players voted by the actual players. Not media, not coaches. The players. I see only guns in that list. Love him or hate him, you will respect him

 

[Bardo State]

It's a shame that pretty much all debate about Rioli's standing would be resolved if people just watched him play. Not perfectly but you wouldn't have the "lol only 15 touches and a goal" vs "one of the best players in an extraordinarily good team" opinion chasm.

 

[Benji85]

Cyril does brilliant things, and has the ability to step up in big moments which is the mark of a superb player, but the level of fawning by the media is so far beyond the pale it's down right bizarre, which I think where 99% of people are coming from. I mean he had 7 disposals to half time on Sunday, with almost zero impact and commentary was all about how "The Cyril magic was back" ad nauseam.

That's Not Cyril's fault in anyway, the problem lies with football media and the Fox/Channel 7 commentary team who have come close to ruining footy for just about everyone outside Victoria (and probably plenty inside too). With it's total lack of accountability AFL related media, specifically that which hails from Victoria, is without a shadow of a doubt the least trustworthy, most incompetent and most biased in this country.

Conclusions
a) Cyril is good
b) media a s**t

 

[Burtman]

Definitely a great of the game. 4 time premiership player, 3 time all Australian, norm smith medalist. Should of easily won the rising star if they actually watched the games rather than looking at Rhys palmers junk stats. Not too many running around have a cv like that

 

[Rev08]

The reality is that he's been horrid for a month. One better game doesn't make it all square or negate all the justified criticism.

For years, Rioli's "match-winning specialness" has been loudly trumpeted. The litmus test is how he goes in a side that isn't one of the best of the era.

So 1 good game doesn't undo 4 bad ones but 4 bad ones undoes 150+ good ones?

Rated number 18 by the players. That speaks volumes for his ability - certainly a lot more than anyone on bigfooty.

 

[Young Gun #6]

Daniel Rioli > Cyril Rioli

 

[Sweet Jesus]

So 1 good game doesn't undo 4 bad ones but 4 bad ones undoes 150+ good ones?

It’s not a matter of “undoing”. It’s a matter of playing in a less successful team presenting a new litmus test.

If Rioli is indeed the ultra-special, clutch superstar he’s billed to be, he should be setting the standard in a Hawthorn side that's now in transition.

Rated number 18 by the players. That speaks volumes for his ability - certainly a lot more than anyone on bigfooty.

See above.

 

[Elite Master]

Decline from 1st to 3rd in the regular season with 17 wins 5 losses which was level with 1st and 2nd. He got the sort of silver service he has his entire career which has involved 7 out of 9 seasons making the finals, with the other seasons involving 9 and 12.5 wins. No other small forward has anything even comparable to that.

Are you a stat watcher or a football watcher. Hawthorn were lucky to win a lot of those close games, and their straight set exit in the finals reflected where they were at.

 

[ZingerB]

Are you a stat watcher or a football watcher. Hawthorn were lucky to win a lot of those close games, and their straight set exit in the finals reflected where they were at.

For at least 17 games they were ultra competitive and they were the 6th highest scoring team last year. That all amounts to plenty of scoring opportunities for Rioli, which he has had, unlike others, for his entire career. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[Sizzlesilk]

Cyril does brilliant things, and has the ability to step up in big moments which is the mark of a superb player, but the level of fawning by the media is so far beyond the pale it's down right bizarre, which I think where 99% of people are coming from. I mean he had 7 disposals to half time on Sunday, with almost zero impact and commentary was all about how "The Cyril magic was back" ad nauseam.

That's Not Cyril's fault in anyway, the problem lies with football media and the Fox/Channel 7 commentary team who have come close to ruining footy for just about everyone outside Victoria (and probably plenty inside too). With it's total lack of accountability AFL related media, specifically that which hails from Victoria, is without a shadow of a doubt the least trustworthy, most incompetent and most biased in this country.

Conclusions
a) Cyril is good
b) media a s**t

4 time premiership player
Norm Smith medallist
3 x AA...

Cyril isn't just "good"....he's a great of the game

 

[Sizzlesilk]

Are you a stat watcher or a football watcher. Hawthorn were lucky to win a lot of those close games, and their straight set exit in the finals reflected where they were at.

It was luck Rioli goaled from 55 v Sydney?
It was luck again Rioli got to the right spot v Adel to get the ball I50?
Yep sure.

 

[Elite Master]

It was luck Rioli goaled from 55 v Sydney?
It was luck again Rioli got to the right spot v Adel to get the ball I50?
Yep sure.

If anything I'm defending Rioli here, when I talk about luck I'm referring to the performance of the team as a collective, not so much Rioli as a individual.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Are you a stat watcher or a football watcher. Hawthorn were lucky to win a lot of those close games, and their straight set exit in the finals reflected where they were at.

"Hawthorn were lucky to win those close games" is really easy to write.

When those wins actually occurred everyone was talking about the leadership out on the ground, the experience of those involved and the decision making at critical times in the game.

Now, those games get lumped with a game against the Cats that could've truly gone either way, and a game against the eventual premier where the Hawks were in it up to their ears until the 20 minute mark of the third, and yet somehow it's proof that they were just lucky to win those other home and away games.

People forget how good Hawthorn were for a siginificant part of 2016 before they tired. They were sitting two games clear on the top of the ladder at Round 18.

 

[blaisee]

"Hawthorn were lucky to win those close games" is really easy to write.

When those wins actually occurred everyone was talking about the leadership out on the ground, the experience of those involved and the decision making at critical times in the game.

Now, those games get lumped with a game against the Cats that could've truly gone either way, and a game against the eventual premier where the Hawks were in it up to their ears until the 20 minute mark of the third, and yet somehow it's proof that they were just lucky to win those other home and away games.

People forget how good Hawthorn were for a siginificant part of 2016 before they tired. They were sitting two games clear on the top of the ladder at Round 18.

Thats interesting.

Earlier on in this thread I had to argue against someone saying that the Hwaks were a crap team last year, as evidence that Cyril could play well in poor sides. Now the hawks were a great team this year.

The point of this thread stands. Cyril is not a cake player, he is an icing on the cake player.

He is too inconsistent in his output and goes missing in games way too much to be considered a cake player.

Brian Lake was right.

 

[Davo23]

Thats interesting.

Earlier on in this thread I had to argue against someone saying that the Hwaks were a crap team last year, as evidence that Cyril could play well in poor sides. Now the hawks were a great team this year.

The point of this thread stands. Cyril is not a cake player, he is an icing on the cake player.

He is too inconsistent in his output and goes missing in games way too much to be considered a cake player.

Brian Lake was right.

You're so hurtful, mate, it's got me seething!