Bring back CC!

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

When I look at the input of the coaches, we were clearly outcaoched.

Yeah, because it's Harvey's fault that Josh Carr and Hasleby are our only genuine midfielders.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

That's a load of shit Ripper and you know it. Connolly built a list of talented players who are AFL quality but aren't quick and don't win their own footy. How the **** is that Harvey's fault????

If Connolly and his ________ mate had f***ed off when everyone knew that they should have we wouldn't have wasted so much time. Now we have to rebuild because those two Billy Hunts have damaged the culture of the club.

Lol , We need more younger players that are inconsistant.

Worked well for WC - take out two superstars and look at them.

We have Drum . Ibbo , Foster , Brock , Hinkley , Smith , Murphy , Campbell waiting in the wings.

Even Dunny is showing a bit.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

I've been saying that for years

You should change your signature.

Something like "Ripper 46 = Accepting mediocrity since 2004" would be fitting.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

Lol , We need more younger players that are inconsistant.

Worked well for WC - take out two superstars and look at them.

We have Drum . Ibbo , Foster , Brock , Hinkley , Smith , Murphy , Campbell waiting in the wings.

Even Dunny is showing a bit.

Atleast Brock wins his own footy. I got shot down at the end of 2005 for suggesting we trade Mundy for Campbell Brown, who would take that trade now???

Opposition sides have figured that if they stop Josh Carr and Hasleby they'll probably win the midfield and go a long way towards winning the game of football, but all that trading has been awesome, hasn't it Ripper.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

Yeah, because it's Harvey's fault that Josh Carr and Hasleby are our only genuine midfielders.

You have to ask why that is?

IMO what set us back was the campaign to keep Macca (2004) & Cookie (2005) started by well intentioned supporters that knew no better when the match committee wanted to let them go.

Macca in particular was a liability in out 2006 finals series.

Even at the end of 2007 these blokes played games when the games would have been better spent on giving the youth a go.

You were wrong.

 

[dominguez]

Maybe CC had this motley lot performing to the maximum.

LOL, either Cuddles built a good list that under achieved or he f***ed up our list, you can't have it both ways. We had a better list going forward than the Eagles at the start of 2002 and we proved that we had the talent between 2002-2007 to match them. Now you're saying that we over-achieved.

 

[shibz_1989]

It's not the coach. It's the team.

FFS, we were terrible today, but for crying out loud, it has been the same for the past few years, with our game plan etc. Both under two different coaches.

Full credit to Richmond though. The umpiring was disgraceful. But not as bad as ours.

So off to training tomorrow

 

[kp junior]

I think ur drafting deserves more scrutiny. Wayy too many similar players on your list. You have 5 tall forwards but 0 full backs. You have 5 small midfielders who all play very similar games but 0 taggers. Alot of talent but the list balance is off.

I actually agree with the Weagle. Grover will never be a fullback, he's getting flogged most weeks at the moment(Rocca, Franklin/Roughead, Polak). We need a proper fullback, and some proper midfielders, rather than all these flanker/tweeners.
Maybe Browne, OBrien, Foster, even Dunn eventually, can do the job. At least they are and always have been running midfield players.
Trading our 1st rounder for a tall forward 2 years ago looks more and more ridiculous. Probably the last area of the ground we needed reinforcement. And our 1st rounder the year before (Drum) is languishing in the wafl because we have too many of the same type.
Crap list management unfortunately

 

[dominguez]

You reckoned We just needed a coach that would make them harder.

That would have been enough at the end of 2005. But the playing group have gone through the motions for over 4 years now, the damage has been done.

 

[Ripper]

LOL, either Cuddles built a good list that under achieved or he f***ed up our list, you can't have it both ways. We had a better list going forward than the Eagles at the start of 2002 and we proved that we had the talent between 2002-2007 to match them. Now you're saying that we over-achieved.

Motley in the sense that they think they are better than they are.

The tail is still wagging the dog IMO.

Mark it down - M Carr & Macca will be in's next week.

If they are not expect another big campaign to get them in.

You heard it first here.

 

[The Night Shift]

I actually agree with the Weagle. Grover will never be a fullback, he's getting flogged most weeks at the moment(Rocca, Franklin/Roughead, Polak). We need a proper fullback, and some proper midfielders, rather than all these flanker/tweeners.
Maybe Browne, OBrien, Foster, even Dunn eventually, can do the job. At least they are and always have been running midfield players.
Trading our 1st rounder for a tall forward 2 years ago looks more and more ridiculous. Probably the last area of the ground we needed reinforcement. And our 1st rounder the year before (Drum) is languishing in the wafl because we have too many of the same type.
Crap list management unfortunately

The truth hurts
great post kp

 

[sumavich]

I actually agree with the Weagle. Grover will never be a fullback, he's getting flogged most weeks at the moment(Rocca, Franklin/Roughead, Polak). We need a proper fullback, and some proper midfielders, rather than all these flanker/tweeners.
Maybe Browne, OBrien, Foster, even Dunn eventually, can do the job. At least they are and always have been running midfield players.
Trading our 1st rounder for a tall forward 2 years ago looks more and more ridiculous. Probably the last area of the ground we needed reinforcement. And our 1st rounder the year before (Drum) is languishing in the wafl because we have too many of the same type.
Crap list management unfortunately

I agree with both !!
Sandi is an overrated dinosaur, FWIW.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

You have to ask why that is?

IMO what set us back was the campaign to keep Macca (2004) & Cookie (2005) started by well intentioned supporters that knew no better when the match committee wanted to let them go.

Macca in particular was a liability in our 2006 finals series.

Even at the end of 2007 these blokes played games when the games would have been better spent on giving the youth a go.

You were wrong.

I was wrong because I'm a McManus/Cook supporter? Co*khead Connolly played senior players ahead of youth for years because he was trying to win games of footy and save his job.

If you are saying that Cook and McManus were retained because they are crowd favourites then you are admitting that Connolly was weak as p1ss and let the tail wag the dog.

I'd be interested to see some posts quoted where I supported the selection of Cook/McManus/Schofield/Matt Carr.

 

[dominguez]

There is fairly full list (plus a couple of gems in Palmer & Mayne) and no excuses in 2008.

There's no excuses for 2008 but there were 1,732 excuses for 2004, 2005, 2007 and the first half of 2006.

 

[chook2734]

I actually agree with the Weagle. Grover will never be a fullback, he's getting flogged most weeks at the moment(Rocca, Franklin/Roughead, Polak). We need a proper fullback, and some proper midfielders, rather than all these flanker/tweeners.
Maybe Browne, OBrien, Foster, even Dunn eventually, can do the job. At least they are and always have been running midfield players.
Trading our 1st rounder for a tall forward 2 years ago looks more and more ridiculous. Probably the last area of the ground we needed reinforcement. And our 1st rounder the year before (Drum) is languishing in the wafl because we have too many of the same type.
Crap list management unfortunately

The weagles are actually a reasonable place to look at for examples of our flaws elsewhere. Look at Glass this year. Has conceded a lot more goals than in previous years. It's not his fault, it's the continual supply to the forward line that is causing the problem. Their midfield has been decimated and it's hurting them bad. Being a backman is the toughest job in footy these days. I agree that Groves plays out of his weight division regularly, but I also believe he's a quality player.

If you were to put, say, a fit Judd and Cousins into our team, not only would Grover look better, but so would Tarrant, Farmer and most of the others. Fix the midfield, we go a long way towards fixing the team.

 

[dockers_bengals]

Maybe I've missed it but where are the posts saying why we where out coached or what should of happened??Harvey swung that many changes but nothing worked.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

I was wrong because I'm a McManus/Cook supporter? Co*khead Connolly played senior players ahead of youth for years because he was trying to win games of footy and save his job.

If you are saying that Cook and McManus were retained because they are crowd favourites then you are admitting that Connolly was weak as p1ss and let the tail wag the dog.

I'd be interested to see some posts quoted where I supported the selection of Cook/McManus/Schofield/Matt Carr.

What is Harves excuse than?

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

I don't understand leaving Luke at FF when it's raining goals at the other end and Grover is being bent over like a $2 street walker...

We got smashed out of the middle. We could have had McPharlin, Glass and Scarlett down back and Pavlich, Brown and Lloyd up front and we would still have lost.

 

[dominguez]

Re: Outcoached

I know we're all a little upset right now, but its way way to early to compare Harvey with anybody right now (BTW, for the record I wasn't keen to see CC go so I'm not defending Harvs). Lets have this discussion with a season or so under his belt.
.

No way, lets leave this discussion until Harvey is into his 6th season then try to defend him for winning one final in six years even though only 2 or 3 quality players have retired in that time.

 

[Lach72]

So leaving our best backman at FF will help?

 

[chook2734]

Re: Outcoached

What is Harves excuse than?

Not sure that I should be getting in here between you two, but surely the fact that it's only 4 weeks into his career is enough to give him a little leeway? The fact he's dropped Matt Carr after 3 weeks (something I don't think CC ever managed?) and that he didn't bring McManus straight back in.

I think all of our coaches over the years have been sucked in by a number of the players of the team. Drum did it, CC did it, and to a lesser extent so far, Harvey has done it. It cost Drum and Connolly their jobs.

I would have liked Harvey to be a lot more brutal on the list last year. Hopefully he either wakes a few of the guys up, or he moves them on at the end of this year.

 

[GreatPurpleShark]

What would it take for the mob around here to actually show some patients and back a guy into the role of head coach. Can we only be happy with a guy if he casts a spell on the list that magically makes them play the way he wants them to straight away. Harv's can't make the decisions for the players once their on the field, he can't affect their disposal. Training takes time and even then some players seem to just have brain fades anyway.

Its not all doom and gloom but our push for a flag of recent has failed. Now Harv's has to play the young guys and teach them the game plan. Palmer and Chopper are both hard at it and i think Harv's will recruit players like this in the future, that will be capable of developing real heart and hardness at the ball. Recruiting players with premiership experience has been costly and has not delivered a return, other than to help adjust the culture. The next step is to develop our own premiership players, only then will the winning culture will be solid for a long time to come. And then we get the bonus of ripping other people off by trading our has beens off, like has so often happened to us.

Lets stop trading altogether except if a player wants out. If we are lucky we can have another crack at the shiny silver cup in the near future.

 

[dominguez]

Draft best player available is always a better philosphy than looking at team balance.

I reckon that's nonsense. The mob up the road lost two quality mids last year so they drafted Masten, Selwood, Dangerfield, Ebert and McGinnity because they knew they needed mids ASAP. Instead we keep drafting flankers who may become midfielders.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Outcoached

Not sure that I should be getting in here between you two, but surely the fact that it's only 4 weeks into his career is enough to give him a little leeway? The fact he's dropped Matt Carr after 3 weeks (something I don't think CC ever managed?) and that he didn't bring McManus straight back in.

I think all of our coaches over the years have been sucked in by a number of the players of the team. Drum did it, CC did it, and to a lesser extent so far, Harvey has done it. It cost Drum and Connolly their jobs.

I would have liked Harvey to be a lot more brutal on the list last year. Hopefully he either wakes a few of the guys up, or he moves them on at the end of this year.

Apart from the fact that it is 11 weeks I agree chook.

Harve's should drop all those that went on strike today, regardless of reputation.

 

[dominguez]

I dont consider Josh Carr as a tagger. He can be tough and tackle but he cant do the other things like spoil shepherd and the gut busting running that most taggers need to be able to do.

If Josh Carr was in a midfield with Kerr, Judd and Goodes he'd be a superb tagger. The fact that he is our best ball winner means that we can't use him as a tagger anymore.

Matt Carr is played as a tagger but i consider that to be out of necessity rather then him being a gun at that position. Im sure if you asked Matt Carr he wouldnt consider himself to be a out and out tagger.

I'm sure if you asked him he would, because he is shithouse in any other role. In 2002 to 2004 he had some fantastic tagging performances. Do you remember Jakovich giving Cousins the mother of all sprays when Matt Carr had 30 possessions and 3 goals against him in a derby?