Bumped Bring back wellingham

[No SPIN]

You keep making stuff up. I have always said we would have been better off keeping him. It's you that made the trade value claims and I which is what I challanged but as I said previously it isn't relevent anyway. We would be better now with him at Collingwood.

Sorry, but you also said his trade value has not dropped - I'm not making anything up.

So you'd prefer BEAMS to having DeGoey and Crisp in our best 22 today - now you're starting to sound completely out of touch.

Lets see how many people agree with you, that we would be better off with BEAMS, instead of JDG and Crisp.

 

[westozpie]

Sorry, but you also said his trade value has not dropped - I'm not making anything up.

So you'd prefer BEAMS to having DeGoey and Crisp in our best 22 today - now you're starting to sound completely out of touch.

Lets see how many people agree with you, that we would be better off with BEAMS, instead of JDG and Crisp.

I'm in your camp No SPIN, give me JDG and Crisp any day

 

[Schachattak]

De Crispy with some Greens on the side

 

[HFF]

I don't rate Crisp at all.
Beams is better than both players- hands down.

Although, knowing that Beams would be leaving i could console myself with JDG alone.
I'd happily give Crisp back -to be honest he's vastly overrated.

 

[Schachattak]

I don't rate Crisp at all.
Beams is better than both players- hands down.

Although, knowing that Beams would be leaving i could console myself with JDG alone.
I'd happily give Crisp back -to be honest he's vastly overrated.

JDG a star long after Beams retires and every 2nd season Beams is out injured all year

And Crisp is one of our few quality outside runners that can break the lines, had to adjust this year to being thrown around from wing to tagger to half back, but he's a beauty

 

[HFF]

JDG a star long after Beams retires and every 2nd season Beams is out injured all year

Quite possibly but the jury is still out. Beams excelled and played some elite level football for us.
I've got no problem in taking the chance on JDG with Beams gone.

I just don't rate the Crisp part of the deal.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I think it's pretty accurate, I did ask for your opinion on the players traded. Just want to know how you view it, not being argumentative but you obviously think differently and would like to see how you viewed their ongoing careers

When a player leaves how can you say they wouldn’t have developed better at Collingwood with all the same players around and the same coach that took them to the flag? It was about the team as a team not individuals. That’s why we won the flag.

 

[jmac70]

I don't rate Crisp at all.
Beams is better than both players- hands down.

Although, knowing that Beams would be leaving i could console myself with JDG alone.
I'd happily give Crisp back -to be honest he's vastly overrated.

His finish in the Copeland shows that he is fulfilling the expectations of the coaches.

 

[MarkT2]

Sorry, but you also said his trade value has not dropped - I'm not making anything up.

So you'd prefer BEAMS to having DeGoey and Crisp in our best 22 today - now you're starting to sound completely out of touch.

Lets see how many people agree with you, that we would be better off with BEAMS, instead of JDG and Crisp.

I'm saying that you made up a claim and said it was unchallengeable. It is highly challengeable.

Back to you question:
Crisp is dime dozen. If we didn't have him we'd have someone else of about the same ability or someone like Broomhead/Aish would play more games. It's marginal at best. Right now Beams is a better player than De Goey. The results categorically prove that. Beams won our B&F in a year we made the prelim at 22. De Goey is 21. Beams was runner up in 2017 to an AA player (we had none) after missing a year with a knee and playing 19 games. That is 2 years after winning their B&F, albeit jointly. He's a bloody good player and has been for 5 years. So up until now at least we would have been better off with Beams than with Crisp & De Goey.

De Goey has upside and showed some signs this year. He has a fair way to go to be at B&F level which is where Beams has been and still is based on actual results. How we are placed in 2+ years remains to be seen. I'm not unhappy with DeGoey FWIW.

 

[No SPIN]

I'm saying that you made up a claim and said it was unchallengeable. It is highly challengeable.

Back to you question:
Crisp is dime dozen. If we didn't have him we'd have someone else of about the same ability or someone like Broomhead/Aish would play more games. It's marginal at best. Right now Beams is a better player than De Goey. The results categorically prove that. Beams won our B&F in a year we made the prelim at 22. De Goey is 21. Beams was runner up in 2017 to an AA player (we had none) after missing a year with a knee and playing 19 games. That is 2 years after winning their B&F, albeit jointly. He's a bloody good player and has been for 5 years. So up until now at least we would have been better off with Beams than with Crisp & De Goey.

De Goey has upside and showed some signs this year. He has a fair way to go to be at B&F level which is where Beams has been and still is based on actual results. How we are placed in 2+ years remains to be seen. I'm not unhappy with DeGoey FWIW.

Beams has played 37/66 in 3 years - so his absence would not have assisted the team, or offer any where near the on field contribution you seem to believe.
By 28 JDG could well have more B&F's and AA's than Beams. Beams came 2nd in the B&F of the bottom side, which I think JDG could easily achieve if he was playing at BNE, given how poor their list is. AND JDG has massive upside and youth.

My point on Value is NOT challengable - you could not get Pick 5 and a Crisp equivalent for of Beams TODAY - don't kid yourself.

But I would be happy for you nominate a club that would be prepared to pay pick 5 and a Crisp equivalent for Beams TODAY.

 

[Schachattak]

Crisp is dime dozen. If we didn't have him we'd have someone else of about the same ability

Nope, on our list it would be someone far less talented and slow, so that's wrong and Crisp is far better than you are making out

 

[Mark W]

Quite possibly but the jury is still out. Beams excelled and played some elite level football for us.
I've got no problem in taking the chance on JDG with Beams gone.

I just don't rate the Crisp part of the deal.

Agree with this...

Crisp has two fatal flaws IMO.

1. He fumbles. It happens often in the contest. Wills, for example, has the strength, the composure, to stand up in the tackle and calmly handpass out to advantage. Crispy, OTOH, just drops the pill. Happens time after time...Crispy loses it when tackled

2. His disposal. He too often burns the footy.

Now Crispy is big bodied, hard running and a ball magnet. For the right team, he could be handy. That right team is not one where two of its elite midfielders also burn the ball..

In terms of the Beams trade. At the moment it is Beams easily. However I am pretty confident that De Goey is developing well and will become an elite player. Crisp and Greenwood are battlers who add a bit of grunt to the side, but, little else

 

[MarkT2]

Beams has played 37/66 in 3 years - so his absence would not have assisted the team, or offer any where near the on field contribution you seem to believe.
By 28 JDG could well have more B&F's and AA's than Beams. Beams came 2nd in the B&F of the bottom side, which I think JDG could easily achieve if he was playing at BNE, given how poor their list is. AND JDG has massive upside and youth.

My point on Value is NOT challengable - you could not get Pick 5 and a Crisp equivalent for of Beams TODAY - don't kid yourself.

But I would be happy for you nominate a club that would be prepared to pay pick 5 and a Crisp equivalent for Beams TODAY.

Rubbish. He finished first and second in year 1 and 3 at Brisbane. It's not a reflection of their list because he won ours in 2012. He missed year 2 with a knee. He wouldn't have helped un in 2016 had he done the knee if he stayed which given it is a time and place injury the overwhelming probability is he would not have.

BUT the question was now. He is better than De Goey now.

By 28 De Goey might be a 5 time Copeland winner or he might be retired with 3 knee recos. It's speculative and beside the point or at least a different point. It is not accurate to say the trade has made us better to this point.

Let me ask you a simple question. Who is more chance at being AA level or thereabouts in 2018? One of Crisp/De Goey or Beams?

As for being at a bottom side, De Goey has played in a side that has finished 12th & 13th the last 2 years. We aren't that good either. Beams won a B&F with us when we made a prelim AND at Brisbane when they finished 17th. He's done it a good side and a poor side. In 2012 he was the age De Goey will be next year.

We paid 2 first rounders for Trelaor (give or take the change). Beams is better than Treloar. Our B&F results say that let alone his results since. Based on that the answer to your question is Collingwood. Carlton wanted 2 first rounders for Gibbs. You over rate the value of draft picks. We spend 6 on Scharenberg and 10 on Freeman. I'd take Beams ahead of both of those players and so would every club right now.

 

[MarkT2]

Nope, on our list it would be someone far less talented and slow, so that's wrong and Crisp is far better than you are making out

Our list would have 1 other player be it a kid via the draft a free agent or a who knows who dud. At the very least he's replaced by Aish/Broomhead if no player of equivalent ability replaces him. It's not that much downside.

 

[No SPIN]

Rubbish. He finished first and second in year 1 and 3 at Brisbane. It's not a reflection of their list because he won ours in 2012. He missed year 2 with a knee. He wouldn't have helped un in 2016 had he done the knee if he stayed which given it is a time and place injury the overwhelming probability is he would not have.

BUT the question was now. He is better than De Goey now.

By 28 De Goey might be a 5 time Copeland winner or he might be retired with 3 knee recos. It's speculative and beside the point or at least a different point. It is not accurate to say the trade has made us better to this point.

Let me ask you a simple question. Who is more chance at being AA level or thereabouts in 2018? One of Crisp/De Goey or Beams?

As for being at a bottom side, De Goey has played in a side that has finished 12th & 13th the last 2 years. We aren't that good either. Beams won a B&F with us when we made a prelim AND at Brisbane when they finished 17th. He's done it a good side and a poor side. In 2012 he was the age De Goey will be next year.

We paid 2 first rounders for Trelaor (give or take the change). Beams is better than Treloar. Our B&F results say that let alone his results since. Based on that the answer to your question is Collingwood. Carlton wanted 2 first rounders for Gibbs. You over rate the value of draft picks. We spend 6 on Scharenberg and 10 on Freeman. I'd take Beams ahead of both of those players and so would every club right now.

At no point have I said Beam can't play - I said he is not worth TODAY what we got for him.

That you actually think that Collingwood would give pick 5 and a Crisp equivalent to get Beams - is laughable.
I think I rest my case.

 

[Schachattak]

Our list would have 1 other player be it a kid via the draft a free agent or a who knows who dud. At the very least he's replaced by Aish/Broomhead if no player of equivalent ability replaces him. It's not that much downside.

Yeah apart from replacing a top 22 player with fringe duds we are trying to trade away... all good other than that

 

[HFF]

His finish in the Copeland shows that he is fulfilling the expectations of the coaches.

Lol yes because the "expectations of the coaches" defines how good a player is because only the coaches know best.

Jarryd Blair has been doing the same for years- doesn't mean he isn't rubbish.

 

[jmac70]

Lol yes because the "expectations of the coaches" defines how good a player is because only the coaches know best.

Jarryd Blair has been doing the same for years- doesn't mean he isn't rubbish.

The coaches set the expectations and clearly he met them last season. Perhaps your expectations are unrealistic?

 

[regpies]

Sorry, but you also said his trade value has not dropped - I'm not making anything up.

So you'd prefer BEAMS to having DeGoey and Crisp in our best 22 today - now you're starting to sound completely out of touch.

Lets see how many people agree with you, that we would be better off with BEAMS, instead of JDG and Crisp.

If Beams has a good attitude and not so injury affected, I’d rather him than Crisp and JDG

 

[jmac70]

If Beams has a good attitude and not so injury affected, I’d rather him than Crisp and JDG

Beams plays for Brisbane

 

[left at home]

So the thread has morphed into a beams thread, excellent at least it’s about
A good footballer

 

[ppoiter]

Stunned this has turned into another "we took apart the youngest premiership team in decades" shitfight

 

[jathanas]

The argument about the Beams trade is academic.

I wish Beams never left because he is an absolute gun. That is undeniable.

JDG has shown upside; he is an exciting prospect that is yet to become an A grader. He is at the moment simply a consolation prize for losing Beemer until he steps up to establish himself. I believe he will, but he hasn't yet.

Crisp is solid and serviceable. I don't think anyone here overrates him.

Wellingham... I'm sure he was mentioned at some point.

 

[MyManLynch]

Rosebud...

 

[mike123]

Beams plays for Brisbane

In other irrelevant news the sky is blue