Toast #BringBackTheBars - Our Heritage, Our History, Our Right! Part 1

[RossFC]

Was listening to the talking footy mp3 that someone posted on this forum a few weeks ago.

KT pretty much said we will never wear the Prison Bars week in week out, only for special occasions. But it sounded like he was floating the idea of Prison Bars with different colour or design to the fans that were eating dinner.

Also said he'd rather have the Maggies stay in the SANFL with the Prison Bars jumper because an AFL reserves comp would cost too much and would kill off the Maggies/Prison Bars jumper as we know it.

 

[Interstater]

Was listening to the talking footy mp3 that someone posted on this forum a few weeks ago.

KT pretty much said we will never wear the Prison Bars week in week out, only for special occasions. But it sounded like he was floating the idea of Prison Bars with different colour or design to the fans that were eating dinner.

Also said he'd rather have the Maggies stay in the SANFL with the Prison Bars jumper because an AFL reserves comp would cost too much and would kill off the Maggies/Prison Bars jumper as we know it.

I was happy to hear the SANFL comments back when I listened to it.
I'd prefer we stay in the SANFL also.

I'm still very much hoping that Keith is the K that stays.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I was happy to hear the SANFL comments back when I listened to it.
I'd prefer we stay in the SANFL also.

I'm still very much hoping that Keith is the K that stays.

Derwayne Russell who has been banging on about the national reserves comp for months, under the NAB League banner, which at the moment is the U/18 comp, with the NSW and Qld academies and Tassie team playing part of the season, expanding to swallow up the NEAFL and then the AFL seconds teams. Says its gonna happen is the futurre etc.

Last week he said that the AFL now wont have a national reserves comp because of the cost.

 

[PA88]

If no national reserves, which I don't think it will be one reserves league but maybe two or three groups, I at least want the lists to be extended by 5 more players.

 

[VineValerian]

Re-the PB's, Eddiewood doesn't want black and white stripes on the kit.
So...………. do the PB with "silver" - and not a battleship grey (or darker), but something light and reflective, which I guess is hard to reproduce in fabric as opposed to metallic cars, but could still be done.

We could devise two games every year for a decade as being "special" celebrations to wear the PB guernsey, because, as the most successful club in the nation, well... you can always find multiple anniversaries to celebrate as special events

Here are just a few anniversaries of premierships - without even looking at Champions of Australia, or winning the flag/Magarey Medal/leading goalkicker in the same year, etc.

2020
150 years / 40th anniv of 1980 flag / 30th anniv of 1990 flag / 25th anniv of 1995 flag

2021
100th anniv 1925 flag / 70th anniv 1951 flag / 40th anniv 1981 flag / 25th anniv 1996 flag

2022
125th anniv 1897 flag (last of 19th century) / 60th anniv 1962 flag / 30th anniv 1992 flag

2023
120th anniv 1903 flag / 110th anniv 1913 flag / 60th anniv 1963 flag / 25th anniv 1998 flag

2024
120th anniv 1884 flag / 110th anniv 1914 flag, CoA, Invincibles / 70th anniv 1954 flag / 30th anniv 1994 flag / 25th anniv 1999 flag (last of the millenium) / 20th anniv 2004 flag (first in AFL)

2025
70th anniv 1955 flag / 60th anniv 1965 flag / 30th anniv 1995 flag

2026
120th anniv 1906 flag / 90th anniv 1936 flag / 75th anniv 1951 flag / 70th anniv 1856 flag / 30th anniv 1996 flag

2027
130th anniv 1897 flag / 90th anniv 1937 flag / 70th anniv 1957 flag / 50th anniv 1977 flag

2028
100th anniv 1928 flag / 70th anniv 1958 flag / 40th anniv 1988 flag / 30th anniv 1998 flag

2029
90th anniv 1939 flag (last before WW2) / 70th anniv 1959 flag / 50th anniv 1979 flag / 40th anniv 1989 flag / 30th anniv 1999 flag / 25th anniv 2004 flag

2030
140th anniv 1890 flag / 120th anniv 1910 flag / 75th anniv 1955 flag / 50th anniv 1980 flag / 40th anniv 1990 flag.

 

[VineValerian]

Silver and black:



Or even:

 

[StrappingTape]

Our board and CEO can get ****ed. They've treated this with the same contempt and strategy as co-captains and keeping Ken. They never even fought for it.

 

[TheFVK]

I could almost accept the Ken situation if we had shown any strength at all on the Prison Bars. Yet again our leaders are too timid to rattle any cages and step out of line. Self preserving, upwards pleasing career middle managers.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I could almost accept the Ken situation if we had shown any strength at all on the Prison Bars. Yet again our leaders are too timid to rattle any cages and step out of line. Self preserving, upwards pleasing career middle managers.

Yep.

What do we do well as a club at the moment?

Not much.

It's almost like the weak mindedness on this issue is a symptom of a larger cultural problem from the top down.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

My care factor about the prison bars is almost zero now. I will have no enjoyment seeing the guernsey while Hinkley is coaching the team.

 

[Tredrea_Wanganeen_Gray]

BRING BACK THE BARS!!!!

 

[El_Scorcho]

My care factor about the prison bars is almost zero now. I will have no enjoyment seeing the guernsey while Hinkley is coaching the team.

I can certainly separate what we are wearing from how we're playing, but i'm almost at the point where I don't want this regime to do any more negotiation about the prison bars because they'll f*** it up and we'll end up with black and teal bars or signing away our rights to use them or whatever.

 

[Winestoppable]

Yep, I am very concerned with whatever deals are being made behind closed doors by this regime.

I don't trust them one bit!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

KT on SEN this arvo said the following re the PBs or as KT regularly said, the prison bar - singular.

Listen between 8.50 -12.28

Keith Thomas on Kymbo & the Rooch

Port Adelaide CEO Keith Thomas joined the boys to recap on 2019. Plus, could the Power wear the prison bar guernsey post 2020?

player.whooshkaa.com

Dillion - 2 very similar txts. I'll read them out both quickly.
Please ask KT what gives him or any other member of the
current board the right to sign away our right to wear the prison
bars guernsey after 2020. That's from Matt. This one's from Adam
in Klemzig for KT. Previous Port boards signed off on Collingwood
first say whenever Port propose to wear bar jumpers. Who signed
and why? Fans want bars once every year.

KT - OK so let me, let me, categorically say that there is no agreement,
SIGNED, that prevents us from wearing the Prison Bar post 2020.
NEVER! That, that agreement does not exist. So whoever presented that
as a possibility, that's a furphy. So that's the first bit. There is a pre existing
agreement, that ummh, that we operate by, that was signed back in 2007,
ummh and that, there, that's the policy that we've been operating on, since
then and every year since 2007, has been the same. So ummh people are
getting a little bit sort of hysterical,and we've chosen not to talk a lot about
the prison bar. It forms part of our 150 year plan, so we wanted to bring it
out at the same time, but no agreement exists that suggests we can't wear
it beyond 2020.

Rucci - Keith lets wheel that one back. 2007 who was responsible for that and
wonder what circumstances.

KT - Yeah, so, so, the argument there, ummh the argument that the administration
back then was having, was recognition that 1870 was in fact our birthday.
Up until then the AFL had only ever acknowledged us, post 1997, and arrrh so, arrh
the, the, the agreement there was that ummh, had, ummh, was that, we were not to,
ummh arggh, seek to wear the prison bars on an ongoing basis, in the AFL,
which they were happy to sign, because they were never intended to anyway.
Like that decision had already been made, you know 10 years earlier. And you know,
but there was a provision around ummh, arggh, having to consult with the AFL,
if you wanted to use them on, the prison bars on special occasions such as
heritage round. That was the context back in 2007, so that was, if you think
about that argument, that was a really important battle to win, it enabled us to
say 1870, and our history, back till then, needed to be recognized at the AFL level,
and argh which they won. So that was the context, ummh and so that enables us to,
when there are moments of historical significance or whatever, go to the AFL and say
we'd like to wear the prison bar and have that conversation, and those conditions still exist.

Dillon - hope that answers that question, argh here's an easier one.

KT - I've actually given you a fair bit there.

Dillion - Rooch is writing down notes, you'll be assured there'll be an article in the Tiser
in the next day or two.

 

[chiwigi]

KT on SEN this arvo said the following re the PBs or as KT regularly said, the prison bar - singular.

Listen between 8.50 -12.28

Keith Thomas on Kymbo & the Rooch

Port Adelaide CEO Keith Thomas joined the boys to recap on 2019. Plus, could the Power wear the prison bar guernsey post 2020?

player.whooshkaa.com

Dillion - 2 very similar txts. I'll read them out both quickly.
Please ask KT what gives him or any other member of the
current board the right to sign away our right to wear the prison
bars guernsey after 2020. That's from Matt. This one's from Adam
in Klemzig for KT. Previous Port boards signed off on Collingwood
first say whenever Port propose to wear bar jumpers. Who signed
and why? Fans want bars once every year.

KT - OK so let me, let me, categorically say that there is no agreement,
SIGNED, that prevents us from wearing the Prison Bar post 2020.
NEVER! That, that agreement does not exist. So whoever presented that
as a possibility, that's a furphy. So that's the first bit. There is a pre existing
agreement, that ummh, that we operate by, that was signed back in 2007,
ummh and that, there, that's the policy that we've been operating on, since
then and every year since 2007, has been the same. So ummh people are
getting a little bit sort of hysterical,and we've chosen not to talk a lot about
the prison bar. It forms part of our 150 year plan, so we wanted to bring it
out at the same time, but no agreement exists that suggests we can't wear
it beyond 2020.

Rucci - Keith lets wheel that one back. 2007 who was responsible for that and
wonder what circumstances.

KT - Yeah, so, so, the argument there, ummh the argument that the administration
back then was having, was recognition that 1870 was in fact our birthday.
Up until then the AFL had only ever acknowledged us, post 1997, and arrrh so, arrh
the, the, the agreement there was that ummh, had, ummh, was that, we were not to,
ummh arggh, seek to wear the prison bars on an ongoing basis, in the AFL,
which they were happy to sign, because they were never intended to anyway.
Like that decision had already been made, you know 10 years earlier. And you know,
but there was a provision around ummh, arggh, having to consult with the AFL,
if you wanted to use them on, the prison bars on special occasions such as
heritage round. That was the context back in 2007, so that was, if you think
about that argument, that was a really important battle to win, it enabled us to
say 1870, and our history, back till then, needed to be recognized at the AFL level,
and argh which they won. So that was the context, ummh and so that enables us to,
when there are moments of historical significance or whatever, go to the AFL and say
we'd like to wear the prison bar and have that conversation, and those conditions still exist.

Dillon - hope that answers that question, argh here's an easier one.

KT - I've actually given you a fair bit there.

Dillion - Rooch is writing down notes, you'll be assured there'll be an article in the Tiser
in the next day or two.

Blah, blah, blah!

We’ve never said never again!
So AGAIN!

 

[RossFC]

It was obvious to me the agreement was for 2020 with further negotiation at a later date. No way was it going to be signed away forever.

 

[Ljc_86]

So we signed away a part of our history to re gain another part of our history??

The AFL is a joke.

Common sense isn’t so common these days

 

[Lockhart Road]

KT on SEN this arvo said the following re the PBs or as KT regularly said, the prison bar - singular.

Listen between 8.50 -12.28

Keith Thomas on Kymbo & the Rooch

Port Adelaide CEO Keith Thomas joined the boys to recap on 2019. Plus, could the Power wear the prison bar guernsey post 2020?

player.whooshkaa.com

Dillion - 2 very similar txts. I'll read them out both quickly.
Please ask KT what gives him or any other member of the
current board the right to sign away our right to wear the prison
bars guernsey after 2020. That's from Matt. This one's from Adam
in Klemzig for KT. Previous Port boards signed off on Collingwood
first say whenever Port propose to wear bar jumpers. Who signed
and why? Fans want bars once every year.

KT - OK so let me, let me, categorically say that there is no agreement,
SIGNED, that prevents us from wearing the Prison Bar post 2020.
NEVER! That, that agreement does not exist. So whoever presented that
as a possibility, that's a furphy. So that's the first bit. There is a pre existing
agreement, that ummh, that we operate by, that was signed back in 2007,
ummh and that, there, that's the policy that we've been operating on, since
then and every year since 2007, has been the same. So ummh people are
getting a little bit sort of hysterical,and we've chosen not to talk a lot about
the prison bar. It forms part of our 150 year plan, so we wanted to bring it
out at the same time, but no agreement exists that suggests we can't wear
it beyond 2020.

Rucci - Keith lets wheel that one back. 2007 who was responsible for that and
wonder what circumstances.

KT - Yeah, so, so, the argument there, ummh the argument that the administration
back then was having, was recognition that 1870 was in fact our birthday.
Up until then the AFL had only ever acknowledged us, post 1997, and arrrh so, arrh
the, the, the agreement there was that ummh, had, ummh, was that, we were not to,
ummh arggh, seek to wear the prison bars on an ongoing basis, in the AFL,
which they were happy to sign, because they were never intended to anyway.
Like that decision had already been made, you know 10 years earlier. And you know,
but there was a provision around ummh, arggh, having to consult with the AFL,
if you wanted to use them on, the prison bars on special occasions such as
heritage round. That was the context back in 2007, so that was, if you think
about that argument, that was a really important battle to win, it enabled us to
say 1870, and our history, back till then, needed to be recognized at the AFL level,
and argh which they won. So that was the context, ummh and so that enables us to,
when there are moments of historical significance or whatever, go to the AFL and say
we'd like to wear the prison bar and have that conversation, and those conditions still exist.

Dillon - hope that answers that question, argh here's an easier one.

KT - I've actually given you a fair bit there.

Dillion - Rooch is writing down notes, you'll be assured there'll be an article in the Tiser
in the next day or two.

Thanks muchly for this REH, for the trouble you’ve gone to errr umphh nghh ahhh verbatim-wise.

Kryst, where’s the oxygen when it’s needed.

And this is our Chief Eloquence Officer (!)

 

[El_Scorcho]

He seems pretty happy with what constitutes a "moments of historical significance" given we weren't granted the right to wear them for the 100 year anniversary of the 1914 undefeated Champions of Australia season. The greatest season in the history of the club.

We also weren't granted the right to wear them during the 2010 140th celebrations.

But we were granted the right to wear them for the final game at the swamp.

So what, after 2020, the next time we can reasonably expect to wear the bars is either the 200th anniversary or the last game at Adelaide Oval?

 

[RossFC]

So what, after 2020, the next time we can reasonably expect to wear the bars is either the 200th anniversary or the last game at Adelaide Oval?

Next time a visiting VFL clubs jumper clashes with our home BIB. That’s more important than any flag anniversary.

 

[shewho]

Do I understand Keith as saying we are free to ask the AFL for permission to wear the bars on special occasions but not as our regular jumper? We can work with that.

This jumper is loved by my generation. We have to keep that love alive for the next generation. It’s on the club walls, it’s in the SANFL , it’s in the AFL occasionally. That love won’t disappear.

I have a sneaky suspicion KT has a Prison Bar announcement up his sleeve, to be unveiled as part of the 2020 announcements. I suspect it is that we will wear the PBs in all Showdowns. I can live with that. It will make it easier to pass my love of the jumper to my kids.

That would mean a lot.

 

[Pappagallo]

Hang on, so the 2007 “agreement” is that we won’t try to wear the PBs full time if they let us market the 1870 angle?

Cross purposes much?

 

[TeeKray]

I'm sick of hearing about this 'agreement' as though it's some sort of blood oath that Port Adelaide is bound to for the rest of its existence.

1) Nobody has actually produced a written agreement saying anything relating to the prison bars. Reason - it does not exist. It's almost certainly a verbal agreement only.

2) It sounds as though whatever agreement was reached was done so under a level of coercion from the AFL, making it an extremely dubious agreement in the first place.

3) Just like any other contractual agreement (eg marriage, AFL player contracts, just about any other contract you can think of), the whole thing can be adjusted or totally disregarded at any time.

 

[TheFVK]

KT on SEN this arvo said the following re the PBs or as KT regularly said, the prison bar - singular.

Listen between 8.50 -12.28

Keith Thomas on Kymbo & the Rooch

Port Adelaide CEO Keith Thomas joined the boys to recap on 2019. Plus, could the Power wear the prison bar guernsey post 2020?

player.whooshkaa.com

Dillion - 2 very similar txts. I'll read them out both quickly.
Please ask KT what gives him or any other member of the
current board the right to sign away our right to wear the prison
bars guernsey after 2020. That's from Matt. This one's from Adam
in Klemzig for KT. Previous Port boards signed off on Collingwood
first say whenever Port propose to wear bar jumpers. Who signed
and why? Fans want bars once every year.

KT - OK so let me, let me, categorically say that there is no agreement,
SIGNED, that prevents us from wearing the Prison Bar post 2020.
NEVER! That, that agreement does not exist. So whoever presented that
as a possibility, that's a furphy. So that's the first bit. There is a pre existing
agreement, that ummh, that we operate by, that was signed back in 2007,
ummh and that, there, that's the policy that we've been operating on, since
then and every year since 2007, has been the same. So ummh people are
getting a little bit sort of hysterical,and we've chosen not to talk a lot about
the prison bar. It forms part of our 150 year plan, so we wanted to bring it
out at the same time, but no agreement exists that suggests we can't wear
it beyond 2020.

Rucci - Keith lets wheel that one back. 2007 who was responsible for that and
wonder what circumstances.

KT - Yeah, so, so, the argument there, ummh the argument that the administration
back then was having, was recognition that 1870 was in fact our birthday.
Up until then the AFL had only ever acknowledged us, post 1997, and arrrh so, arrh
the, the, the agreement there was that ummh, had, ummh, was that, we were not to,
ummh arggh, seek to wear the prison bars on an ongoing basis, in the AFL,
which they were happy to sign, because they were never intended to anyway.
Like that decision had already been made, you know 10 years earlier. And you know,
but there was a provision around ummh, arggh, having to consult with the AFL,
if you wanted to use them on, the prison bars on special occasions such as
heritage round. That was the context back in 2007, so that was, if you think
about that argument, that was a really important battle to win, it enabled us to
say 1870, and our history, back till then, needed to be recognized at the AFL level,
and argh which they won. So that was the context, ummh and so that enables us to,
when there are moments of historical significance or whatever, go to the AFL and say
we'd like to wear the prison bar and have that conversation, and those conditions still exist.

Dillon - hope that answers that question, argh here's an easier one.

KT - I've actually given you a fair bit there.

Dillion - Rooch is writing down notes, you'll be assured there'll be an article in the Tiser
in the next day or two.

A lot to chew on there for Michelangelo Rucci, handed to him on a platter. So watch him completely butcher the interpretation and come up with a totally nonsensical and incoherent angle.

"But are they really since 1870?" *pensive thinking music*

"But is there room for 2 teams in SA?" *starts masturbating with a gentle mix of Einstein complex and self loathing*

 

[Interstater]

Hang on, so the 2007 “agreement” is that we won’t try to wear the PBs full time if they let us market the 1870 angle?

Cross purposes much?

What disturbs me a little is that you (with others) have been in consultation with the club but this had not been raised to you before.

As paid up "members" we have little or no say in this matter.
My hope was that during your discussions you would have had full knowledge of the situation and you would be able to put the position of this (bigfooty) group forward with that knowledge in mind, so that once an announcement is made, it would have had our input considered.

I'm now losing faith in that assumption.

---

On a different topic, I am still confused.

KT says:
"OK so let me, let me, categorically say that there is no agreement, SIGNED, that prevents us from wearing the Prison Bar post 2020."

The argument that the administration back then was having, was recognition that 1870 was in fact our birthday.
Up until then the AFL had only ever acknowledged us, post 1997, and so the agreement there was that we were not to seek to wear the prison bars on an ongoing basis, in the AFL which they were happy to sign, because they were never intended to anyway.

So this is how I understand it.

While there is not a signed agreement that prevents us for wearing the prison bars post 2020, there is a signed agreement that we will not seek to wear them on an ongoing basis in the AFL.

i.e. we can wear them in the SANFL as much as we like.

So what does ongoing mean?
Does it mean all the time or does it mean on certain occasions each year?

Here we go back to KT:
but there was a provision around having to consult with the AFL if you wanted to use the prison bars on special occasions such as
heritage round

So in summary, we can only wear them in the AFL after consultation with the AFL and only on special occasions.
But we can wear them in the SANFL whenever we like.

So what is a special occasion?

My confusion continues.