Brisbane/Fitzroy relationship discussion

[Haggis McHaggis]

First of all let me say a massive congratulations to Steve Wright & Angus Johnson, for doing so much in such a short amount of time, to repair a relationship that is at the heart of our club, that was treated so woefully by your predecessors. I was going to say you have no idea how much better I feel as a proud member of a club once again respecting its shared heritage, but I believe you guys do, hence the changes you've made. Just remember you still need to fix the guernsey.

Now, to the point of the thread, to discuss the relationship between the merged entities as far as it's practical nurturing and ways to promote its use as the strength at the heart of our club.

The invitation of Fitzroy to be part of our first Melbourne based function this year is a credit to those that have kicked off the repair job, but once that's done, and the first round of the NAB Cup for 2011 is run and done, where to from there? Hopefully Fitzroy's involvement in Lions community engagement in Melbourne becomes commonplace.

What prompted me to start this thread though, was the idea of the Lions whacking a box on the BBFFC membership form for members of our AFL club to whack the extra $30 onto their membership to become paid up members of the FFC in the VAFA. It would be a massive boost to the FFC, and IMO would go a long way to re-engaging some people that turned away from the club at the time of the merger.

I'm sure people could put other great ideas, simple or complex, that would be beneficial to our Lions family. Having the boys train alongside the VAFA lads in Melbourne for starters. Merchandising for both clubs through the Lions shop, online or from the FFC. Running clinics for junior Roys to make sure they're part of the family etc etc etc.

We know the club is listening to us now, so it's time for us to shake off the pain of the previous pack of shitheads, and put some really good thoughts forward for our administrators to mull over.

 

[blynd_freddie]

What prompted me to start this thread though, was the idea of the Lions whacking a box on the BBFFC membership form for members of our AFL club to whack the extra $30 onto their membership to become paid up members of the FFC in the VAFA. It would be a massive boost to the FFC, and IMO would go a long way to re-engaging some people that turned away from the club at the time of the merger.

An excellent suggestion Haggis, will be part of my sneak out of work and wander down to the docklands on family day – to sign up with the FFC.

That leaves one final membership for 2011 – the bowls club. I’ve had a brief search around and am of the belief this is a totally separate entity. Is this correct?

 

[Mighty Roar]

What prompted me to start this thread though, was the idea of the Lions whacking a box on the BBFFC membership form for members of our AFL club to whack the extra $30 onto their membership to become paid up members of the FFC in the VAFA.

This is a brilliant idea. Carlton do exactly this with their VFL affiliate, the Northern Bullants.

How simple would it be to add a Fitzroy membership option to existing Brisbane Lions packages?

 

[Roylion]

A few suggestions follow (made also with an eye to increasing the Victorian membership of the Lions).

1) For Melbourne games go back to the red Melbourne jumper with the classic Fitzroy lion logo. It was very favorably accepted by Fitzroy supporters, so why would you change it for some bastardised version?

2) Establish a much closer connection with the Fitzroy Football Club in the VAFA. Haggis has already suggested what the Lions could do...but Fitzroy have a $165 Gold Lion membership option, that if taken out MIGHT include the option of attending three Brisbane Lions games in Victoria. It might provide benefits similar to taking out a Country Lions membership with a joint Fitzroy / Brisbane Lions merchandiise package attached to the membership.

3) Get Fitzroy Football Club representation on the Brisbane Lions board. I've suggested this before, but I find it patently ridiculous that the Lions merger partner has never had representation on the Lions board. Laurie Serafini may have been a former Fitzroy player, but he has never represented the Fitzroy Football Club. Even after 14 years, many Fitzroy supporters, given the events of the 1996 merger, feel that the board of the Fitzroy Football Club, are the legitimate representatives of the Fitzroy identity and ethos and their continued exclusion is a source of dismay and chagrin. Is it really too much to ask that the Fitzroy Football Club have ONE director on the board? If safeguards are required, ensure that the Fitzroy Football Club director chosen is in fact a paid up member of the Lions. Already over half the Fitzroy board are Lions members and have been for some years, so one of those could easily be co-opted.

4) In conjunction with, or maybe in place of 3), allow Victorian members of the Brisbane Lions to elect someone to the board to represent them, rather than have a Victorian director appointed for them by the Queensland based board members. Currently the director in charge of Victorian operations is a Queensland based director. If a Queensland based club is to improve their appeal to Victorian members, then surely they should be given a say in the running of the club. This may or may not be the same person as the designated Fitzroy director. Perhaps a Fitzroy director could be co-opted and then he / she would have to stand for election at a subsequent AGM, perhaps against other Victorian candidates.

5) Find a new social Victorian club venue closer to the city, perhaps in conjunction with #2). What about looking at purchasing a licensed venue somewhere in the northern suburbs or in Fitzroy? The Lions attempted to secure the Charles Albion in Northcote (just north of the Brunswick Street Oval) at the time of the merger, but that was unsuccessful for reasons I won't go into here. That might be an option now.

6) In the AFL, wear the 1975-1996 Fitzroy jumper in Victoria for 1 game per season and where appropriate for clash games. Pick one of Fitzroy's traditional rivals, say Collingwood (if drawn), and wear it for that corresponding Victorian match every year. Alternatively pick the Victorian game closest to July 4th (independence day for the Americans and merger day for Fitzroy people) and wear it for that game. Pick an alternative game at the Gabba where the Lions wear a jumper similar to the 'Spirit of Queensland' jumper that will be worn this Friday.

7) Wear the proper gold 'FFC logo' somewhere on the existing Melbourne guernsey While the existing "BBFFC" is good, the traditional FFC logo is a strong brand in Victoria and is instantly recognisable. This links the club with the Fitzroy Football Club more strongly. Fitzroy in turn would resume wearing the Brisbane Lions "Fitzroy lions logo" (on their jumper).

8) Sponsor the Fitzroy Football Club in the VAFA. The Lions sponsored the Fitzroy Reds when they existed, but have not sponsored the Fitzroy Football Club in the time they have been in the VAFA (i.e. Seasons 2009-2010)

9) Train at the Brunswick Street Oval occasionally perhaps in conjunction with the VAFA boys. I know Albert Park is the preferred venue, given its proximity to hotels, but the occasional training at the BSO on a Thursday/Friday night, would bring along a fair crowd.

10) Address the club records issue with the AFL.
Either:
a) start the Lions AFL records in 1997 (yes I know the Lions officially do this)...

OR
seeing that the AFL statisticians have some sort of incomprehensible inability to cope with a) they could...

b) request the AFL to include Fitzroy records from 1883 as part of the Brisbane Lions records in the same manner as the relocated South Melbourne / Sydney Swans or the renamed Footscray / Western Bulldogs.

In other words, do what would have happened had Fitzroy gone to Brisbane at the end of 1986. Of course then the status of the Bears records and how they should be recorded will come into question. A) is therefore the preference.

Certainly nothing is more infuriating to a Fitzroy supporter to see the Brisbane Bears history included as part of the Brisbane Lions, while Fitzroy's is ignored.

At the very least, the Brisbane Lions should take a good close look at the Sydney Swans and ask why they have close to 10,000 Victorian members and the Lions have less than half of those. Our overall circumstances are different of course, but the Swans have embraced their Melbourne heritage with the resulting dividends. I doubt they will be indulging in knee-jerk reactions in re-branding themselves when Western Sydney enter the competition - they'll rely partly on their tradition and heritage both in Sydney and in Melbourne in order to compete.

A solid Victorian base is something that the Lions could have with a little bit of effort and that is one thing that the Gold Coast will never have. 10,000 Victorian members is not out of the realms of possibility.

I see Fitzroy Football Club as having a vital role to play in achieving that, if the Lions want that to occur.

 

[Tomohawkk]

1) For Melbourne games go back to the red Melbourne jumper with the classic Fitzroy lion logo. It was very favorably accepted by Fitzroy supporters, so why would you change it for some bastardised version?

Why would they do that just for the Melbourne games?

Wear the proper gold 'FFC logo' somewhere on the existing Melbourne guernsey While the existing "BBFFC" is good, the traditional FFC logo is a strong brand in Victoria and is instantly recognisable. This links the club with the Fitzroy Football Club more strongly. Fitzroy in turn would resume wearing the Brisbane Lions "Fitzroy lions logo" (on their jumper).

And... why would they do that when the BBFFC already says enough, shying away from being a united merged club. Should they put a BBFC on there as well and just forget that we're actually one team?

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Changing it only for Melbourne would be to our detriment IMO. It needs to be changed back to the proper lion, period. That would also negate the second point in the post above. Everyone wins.

 

[Tomohawkk]

Agreed, I'm just opposed to the Lions going out of their way to appease a minority of supporters in Victoria who's potential size is vastly over estimated by some on here instead of an even arrangement with the jumper fair to the merge. Unlike many of here who want to have it as 2 different clubs unhappy to be slapped together as opposed to being committed to the one team, the Brisbane Lions. The Lions did no wrong that could be criticized, upholding Fitzroy's lesser part of the merge more than fairly until 2010.

If there are still those who'd prefer Fitzroy or the Bears to the Brisbane Lions and the 3 premierships then they're not truly on board.

 

[whatboutbob]

The Lions did no wrong that could be criticized, upholding Fitzroy's lesser part of the merge more than fairly until 2010.

Not so good with the history, are you?

 

[Tomohawkk]

Not so good with the history, are you?

History yes, football history maybe not... However I think 3 premierships, the multiple Fitzroy heritage jumpers and the red away jumper were generous enough.

 

[Roylion]

Why would they do that just for the Melbourne games?

I'd prefer it be for all games. However Fitzroy is in Melbourne.

And... why would they do that when the BBFFC already says enough, shying away from being a united merged club. Should they put a BBFC on there as well and just forget that we're actually one team?

Do this then.

as a gold colour though.

 

[Tomohawkk]

I'd prefer it be for all games. However Fitzroy is in Melbourne.



Do this then.

as a gold colour though.

I said that sarcastically, if they did that it'd be pathetic.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

Please don't start the vitriolic s**t again TH. You've made your feelings quite clear on this before, and to be honest, your line would be as bad as what you perceive to be pandering to a Victorian minority.

Both sides of our history deserve representation. This is the whole point of the thread, to discuss how all can be included, not to spout divisive invective over which part of the club matters. Put simply, all of it does, and if all of it is embraced and given decent consideration, we will thrive.

Your attitude has no room for our Victorian supporter base to grow. If you believe that, then I'm glad someone with like views is no longer running our club. Likewise, your attitude seems to say that doing some decent things for the Roys must be done at the expense of the Bears and people that have come on board post merger. Why must there be conflict? Challenge your own ideas mate.

 

[Roylion]

The Lions did no wrong that could be criticized, upholding Fitzroy's lesser part of the merge more than fairly until 2010.

Really? Hmmm. Have I got some stories that I could share.

Until the events of the past few weeks, probably 2002-2004 was the best period of co-operation between Fitzroy and Brisbane. The Fitzroy Team of the Century function (at which I was present) did repair a lot of the previous damage and that was built upon over the next couple of years.

If there are still those who'd prefer Fitzroy or the Bears to the Brisbane Lions and the 3 premierships then they're not truly on board.

The point is of course that as a Queensland based club, it's the ties to the Victorian identity of Fitzroy that keep me re-joining as a member. I know that the same for many other people as well. It's very difficult to identify with a club based so far away. We don't see the team train or play very often. If the AFL club's identification with the old club I love is diluted or ignored, then I may as well follow another Melbourne based AFL club and/or go and watch the Roys at Brunswick Street on a Saturday afternoon in the VAFA. I can wallow in 127 years of Fitzroy history there. Either way the Lions wouldn't get my support and my money.

However if Brisbane wants a significant Victorian supporter base then Fitzroy has to be a relatively important part of those Victorian operations. Fitzroy have a relatively strong supporter base down here still and it would be crazy for Brisbane to not want to try and tap into that.

 

[Roylion]

I said that sarcastically, if they did that it'd be pathetic.

I disagree.

The FFC logo is instantly recognisable in Victoria amongst football fans and given that Fitzroy still have it on their official guernsey (and indeed own the logo), its presence on the back of the Brisbane jumper would make it very clear to all the relationship between Fitzroy and the Lions. The Fitzroy connection is a great marketing tool for the Lions in Victoria.

 

[Gibbo_88]

7) Wear the proper gold 'FFC logo' somewhere on the existing Melbourne guernsey While the existing "BBFFC" is good, the traditional FFC logo is a strong brand in Victoria and is instantly recognisable. This links the club with the Fitzroy Football Club more strongly. Fitzroy in turn would resume wearing the Brisbane Lions "Fitzroy lions logo" (on their jumper).

I think everything else you have suggested is a great idea. I don't agree with every guernsey that the lions wear in Melbourne should just have the FFC logo on it though and I can't see it ever happening. Perhaps for heritage round, (do they even still do that?) if the lions are in Melbourne for that game then I think it's a good idea to have FFC logo on the guernsey.

 

[GingerGreatness]

Do this then.

as a gold colour though.

I've said it before but that's one sexay beast right there - our heritage perfectly balanced.

As someone who came to the club via a "Bears" route, I love it.

 

[BuntonRules]

First of all let me say a massive congratulations to Steve Wright & Angus Johnson, for doing so much in such a short amount of time, to repair a relationship that is at the heart of our club, that was treated so woefully by your predecessors. I was going to say you have no idea how much better I feel as a proud member of a club once again respecting its shared heritage, but I believe you guys do, hence the changes you've made. Just remember you still need to fix the guernsey.

.

Great opening, & great thread H McH. As a Qld based ex Bears man, this repairing of the merger relationship is at the core of renewing our club, IMO. We all must keep the pressure up to put the paddlepop in history's bin.

This is a brilliant idea. Carlton do exactly this with their VFL affiliate, the Northern Bullants.

How simple would it be to add a Fitzroy membership option to existing Brisbane Lions packages?






[/QUOTE

]Agreed. I joined Fitzroy last year purely to help pay for their challenge to the paddlpop. Whislt I am ambivient about renewing, I would be proud to pay an extra &20 for associate membership.

Do this then.

as a gold colour though.

Love that logo. Would love to see it on the back of our jumper. Favorite to be my next tattoo.

Roylion - IMO the board & Fitzroy should get together & discuss your ideas - & others. I would have no problem with Victorian members electing their own director, provided such membership remains above an agreed percentage of total.

Finally tomohawkk.. Would have been quite happy if you had gone with Bowers & Kelly. Same blinkered outlook.

 

[Roylion]

I don't agree with every guernsey that the lions wear in Melbourne should just have the FFC logo on it though and I can't see it ever happening.

No I wasn't thinking of the Lions jumper just having the FFC logo by itself on the jumper in Melbourne. I was more thinking on the back of the jumper in place of the existing "BBFFC" or perhaps a small FFC logo on the breast.

As I've already said, the below logo in place of the existing "BBFFC" would be along the lines of what I originally suggested.

 

[Tomohawkk]

I wouldn't have it any other way than paying adequate respects to the heritage of Fitzroy but not to the extent of separating the club's image so much that the actual name 'Brisbane Lions' has no relevance. Sorry if I have a more realistic view of the issue. None of you can take this rationally it's ridiculous and look straight past my posts so I'll give up.

 

[royboy2]

Certainly nothing is more infuriating to a Fitzroy supporter to see the Brisbane Bears history included as part of the Brisbane Lions, while Fitzroy's is ignored.

This really gets me going, dont even get me started

No I wasn't thinking of the Lions jumper just having the FFC logo by itself on the jumper in Melbourne. I was more thinking on the back of the jumper in place of the existing "BBFFC" or perhaps a small FFC logo on the breast.

As I've already said, the below logo in place of the existing "BBFFC" would be along the lines of what I originally suggested.

Our old mate Mr Bowers thoughts on that idea after I emailed it to him.

Chris - bottom line for us is that we want to look forward not back. We can look back at historical events etc but we need to move forward. There are too many people - well meaning I am sure - who say I want this or that or I will remain a member if the Club does this. It borders on extortion! I have been a member ever since the Club relocated to the Gabba - I still retain my seats at the Gabba. I have never felt the need to impose conditions on being a member of the Club.

There needs to be some trust in the people in positions acting in the best interests of the CLUB not just some groups of people with self interests.
If we keep looking back we will be swamped by the opposition.

We are not proposing any changes this year.

The Club was sued, as I am sure you are aware,this year. We are sticking to complying with the terms of the settlement. The case cost the Club lots of $$$. I am sure you will regard that as the fault of the Management of the Club but it was undertaken in good faith.

We want to make sure we are not sued again by anyone, so we are sticking to the terms of the settlement.

 

[GingerGreatness]

The Club was sued, as I am sure you are aware,this year. We are sticking to complying with the terms of the settlement. The case cost the Club lots of $$$. I am sure you will regard that as the fault of the Management of the Club but it was undertaken in good faith.

We want to make sure we are not sued again by anyone, so we are sticking to the terms of the settlement.

Irrelevant now, but that bit intrigues me - if I cut a deal with a car dealer for a Ferrari, sign the contract, but the dealer then decides to give me two cars instead of one, who the hells going to sue?

An excuse to do the bare minimum.

 

[Roylion]

I wouldn't have it any other way than paying adequate respects to the heritage of Fitzroy but not to the extent of separating the club's image so much that the actual name 'Brisbane Lions' has no relevance.

I'm not sure I really understand this. We already have "BBFFC" on the back of the jumper to signify that there is a merged club. We trade as the "Brisbane Lions" but the official name of the club is the "Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club." Use of the Fitzroy logo (in conjunction with the BB logo) is much more marketable to potential Lions supporters in Victoria than the white block letters "BBFFC".

I'm certainly not suggesting that the "Lion logo" be removed from the front of the jumper, although I do fervently believe the current lion logo needs to revert to the previous version.

 

[Roylion]

If we keep looking back we will be swamped by the opposition.

Victorian football clubs build their marketing and image around their traditions and heritage. Collingwood do it very well...and I don't really see them being "swamped by the opposition".

I really don't understand how the greater marketing of our club in Victoria, an area where there is a significant potential and largely latent supporter base, by using a tradition and heritage is somehow "looking back".

In 1996 wasn't the reason for seeking a merger with a proud and historic Melbourne based club, was so the Brisbane club could move forward by becoming more marketable?

 

[maroon and blue]

Geez Roylion that is a big list. I'd settle for a family day at Brunswick Oval plus a few snags.

 

[maroon and blue]

Agreed, I'm just opposed to the Lions going out of their way to appease a minority of supporters in Victoria who's potential size is vastly over estimated by some on here instead of an even arrangement with the jumper fair to the merge. Unlike many of here who want to have it as 2 different clubs unhappy to be slapped together as opposed to being committed to the one team, the Brisbane Lions. The Lions did no wrong that could be criticized, upholding Fitzroy's lesser part of the merge more than fairly until 2010.

If there are still those who'd prefer Fitzroy or the Bears to the Brisbane Lions and the 3 premierships then they're not truly on board.

I think you would be suprised how many people "down here " follow the Lions. Perhaps you should spend some time in Victoria.