Prediction Brisbane Lions 2017 Coach is Chris Fagan

Who do you want?

  • Bomber Thompson

    Votes: 53 21.2%
  • Stewart Dew

    Votes: 27 10.8%
  • Brett Ratten

    Votes: 43 17.2%
  • Leppa

    Votes: 28 11.2%
  • Brad Scott

    Votes: 14 5.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 85 34.0%

  • Total voters
    250
  • Poll closed .

Kevvo

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It is interesting to see that leppa is still the second favourite in the voting above.

I feel like a grinch saying this, but he's 2nd in a crowded field. 75% of voters are after someone else at this point.

n.b. I'm not even sure how I would feel about Leppitsch coaching on next year because his departure feels so inevitable that I can't judge it clearly. I'm not making the point above because I necessarily want him out though.
 
I feel like a grinch saying this, but he's 2nd in a crowded field. 75% of voters are after someone else at this point.

n.b. I'm not even sure how I would feel about Leppitsch coaching on next year because his departure feels so inevitable that I can't judge it clearly. I'm not making the point above because I necessarily want him out though.
Quite a good point, didn't look at it that way.
I am a little torn as to which way is best for the club. I can see benefits either way because i believe that with the natural progression of the group as a whole, whoever coaches next year things should progress from this year in an upward trajectory. So i really dont think we will ever know whether leppa can actually coach if they were to let him go.
 

Kevvo

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Quite a good point, didn't look at it that way.
I am a little torn as to which way is best for the club. I can see benefits either way because i believe that with the natural progression of the group as a whole, whoever coaches next year things should progress from this year in an upward trajectory. So i really dont think we will ever know whether leppa can actually coach if they were to let him go.

I completely agree on that front.

What I'm mostly worried about is the psychology of the players. Most of them have limited reference points as to what a good AFL coach looks like day-to-day. I've generally felt as though the things we know about Leppitsch (technical knowledge of the game, communication) should really work well, and I have an underlying sense that he probably could do a good job. But, unless results get better soon, I'm concerned that the players will stop believing it at which point it won't matter how good he is. A change might at least buy a bit more time for belief to form while they mature.

I really do feel for Lepptisch. It was a monster task that he took on, and his treatment this year has been unedifying.
 
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I completely agree on that front.

What I'm mostly worried about is the psychology of the players. Most of them have limited reference points as to what a good AFL coach looks like day-to-day. I've generally felt as though the things we know about Leppitsch (technical knowledge of the game, communication) should really work well, and I have an underlying sense that he probably could do a good job. But, unless results get better soon, I'm concerned that the players will stop believing it at which point it won't matter how good he is. A change might at least buy a bit more time for belief to form while they mature.

I really do feel for Lepptisch. It was a monster task that he took on, and his treatment this year has been unedifying.

I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure it really matters that the players have limited references.

We all had a first boss at some point. In the beginning I thought mine was some rock hard dictator that had missed his chance at running a small communist nation. But as time went by I grew to respect and admire him. After a number of years he became my second father almost.

The point I'm making is that every young player has a first coach. Whether or not that coach can connect with, inspire, motivate and teach those players is far more important than his outside reputation. And its clear when dealing with young groups there needs to be a range of voices available due to the dynamics of of the group, so the need for quality assistants is just as important.

Coaches are made great by players and visa versa. The relationship that builds success for both has to start at day 1 somewhere. If that connection is genuine then I'm not sure theres such a thing as a "good AFL" coach until history says so.
 

Kevvo

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I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure it really matters that the players have limited references.

We all had a first boss at some point. In the beginning I thought mine was some rock hard dictator that had missed his chance at running a small communist nation. But as time went by I grew to respect and admire him. After a number of years he became my second father almost.

The point I'm making is that every young player has a first coach. Whether or not that coach can connect with, inspire, motivate and teach those players is far more important than his outside reputation. And its clear when dealing with young groups there needs to be a range of voices available due to the dynamics of of the group, so the need for quality assistants is just as important.

Coaches are made great by players and visa versa. The relationship that builds success for both has to start at day 1 somewhere. If that connection is genuine then I'm not sure theres such a thing as a "good AFL" coach until history says so.

I take your point, but the trick is that players in the AFL have wins and losses as an intuitively compelling way to assess progress. It may feel as though your coach is doing a good job, but if you're getting belted week after week I'd be shocked if players didn't start to feel doubts. If those doubts affect commitment, that's a huge issue.

Even though wins and losses are a seriously reductive measure for growth as a side, you're asking a lot for players to buy in year after year when results are trending the wrong way, even though I agree there are obvious and compelling reasons to explain that.

I agree with you that all great coaches start at some point unproven. I think that Leppitsch has had very little luck in escaping that first stage, and I think it'll cost him.
 

M Malice

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for those who remember- was Paul Roos solely appointed at the demons by the AFL or did he go through an interview process?

is there a chance that Brenton Sanderson will be appointed/strongly suggested by the AFL? found it interesting that he flagged his intentions to get back into club land.

he is obviously an AFL favorite (NAB AFL academy head coach) and i find it hard to believe the AFL would be supportive of a Mark Thompson appointment after what went on at essendon.

i am sure that there was a subtle suggestion at the AFL/Lions meeting that any help would be on the proviso that they are heavily involved in any decisions.
 
for those who remember- was Paul Roos solely appointed at the demons by the AFL or did he go through an interview process?

Approached and appointed.
 
Sanderson got ousted from the Crows because Senior Players didn't have nice things to say about him in an End of Season review. He coached them for 69 games winning 39 matches. He had 2 years left on a contract when he was sacked.
 

M Malice

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had a vague recollection of that BB, i am a bit que sera sera re the coaching position ATM, maybe he has improved on what he had to work on since his dismissal.

 

Biggies

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I like the idea of Sanderson as an assistant/development coach. Not really sold on him for the senior gig though on reasons summed up by BB.
 

marooned

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for those who remember- was Paul Roos solely appointed at the demons by the AFL or did he go through an interview process?

is there a chance that Brenton Sanderson will be appointed/strongly suggested by the AFL? found it interesting that he flagged his intentions to get back into club land.

he is obviously an AFL favorite (NAB AFL academy head coach) and i find it hard to believe the AFL would be supportive of a Mark Thompson appointment after what went on at essendon.

i am sure that there was a subtle suggestion at the AFL/Lions meeting that any help would be on the proviso that they are heavily involved in any decisions.
Hit the nail on the head I reckon they will want to have a say if they are going to provide financial assistance that will be used on coaching staff
 

marooned

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I'm personally on the Ratten bandwagon. Bit of age/experience, pretty good senior record and has recent history in the hawks structure. Whether he has any idea how the footy world works in QLD I've got no idea though.
Don't think Ratten will leave Vic after family issue.
 
I completely agree on that front.

What I'm mostly worried about is the psychology of the players. Most of them have limited reference points as to what a good AFL coach looks like day-to-day. I've generally felt as though the things we know about Leppitsch (technical knowledge of the game, communication) should really work well, and I have an underlying sense that he probably could do a good job. But, unless results get better soon, I'm concerned that the players will stop believing it at which point it won't matter how good he is. A change might at least buy a bit more time for belief to form while they mature.

I really do feel for Lepptisch. It was a monster task that he took on, and his treatment this year has been unedifying.
I think that with the full review going on. A good part of the players will get their chance to have their say, hopefully without leppa sitting their listening in. And then we will get an honest assessment of how the players picture both leppa and the club and whether they are all in with leppas plan. Both on the field and off. It may be what saves him in the end.
If 95% of players are still in, then he might keep his job.
I think the board would be silly not to question most if not all of the players.
 
I'm still not sold on firing Leppa. We've been horrible, but I don't know that we'd be much better under someone else. Big thing I'm cranky about is our defensive transition. I'm not convinced that we actually have a defensive transition setup.

The big upside of sacking him though is that I can see a situation where the AFL approach someone like a Sanderson or a Thompson on our behalf, and say "we want you to take the club"... A smart coach would then be able to point out the club's deficits and label it a fool's errand, and refuse to take the job without certain benefits for the club to increase their likelihood of success in the coming years. Something like, say, a priority pick at the beginning of the first round. Doesn't cost the AFL anything, and the coach gets more material to work with, increase his likelihood of success at the club. Head coaches don't get too many shots at the top job - being fired after 20% win rate is just about the end of a career -- can't see Sanderson or Thompson signing up without a fat pay packet and a bit of list/facilities assistance from AFL House.
 
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I'm still not sold on firing Leppa. We've been horrible, but I don't know that we'd be much better under someone else. Big thing I'm cranky about is our defensive transition. I'm not convinced that we actually have a defensive transition setup.

The big upside of sacking him though is that I can see a situation where the AFL approach someone like a Sanderson or a Thompson on our behalf, and say "we want you to take the club"... A smart coach would then be able to point out the club's deficits and label it a fool's errand, and refuse to take the job without certain benefits for the club to increase their likelihood of success in the coming years. Something like, say, a priority pick at the beginning of the first round. Doesn't cost the AFL anything, and the coach gets more material to work with, increase his likelihood of success at the club. Head coaches don't get too many shots at the top job - being fired after 20% win rate is just about the end of a career -- can't see Sanderson or Thompson signing up without a fat pay packet and a bit of list/facilities assistance from AFL House.
That's the way I see it as well. If the new coach is approached by the AFL they can pretty much demand some help. The AFL would more than likely sign off on it as it would look really bad if they put a coach in and it all fails.
 
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