Strategy Brisbane Lions Coaching and Staff Thread

[Biggies]

Football is a real complex strategic and analytic game for coaches.

There is simply far, far more that goes into coaching then simply what part of the ground you used to run around in when you played.

 

[jackess]

Plus, our forward line actually functioned quite well this season. Extremely well considering who we had playing.

 

[bewsta]

Ben Hudson told a family member during a training session last season that he had no idea why his responsibilities included those as forward coach when he had only kicked 3 goals in 178 games [unsure of the maths here].

Makes sense to me.

19 in 168 actually. Still not a lot, but hey it's better than three.

 

[bewsta]

Interesting that only three out of the 10 coaches (Adcock, Hahn, Hudson) have AFL experience.

 

[BRAB]

I found Hudson's coaching style to be a bit weird at open sessions but obviously it is fine.

 

[Haso]

I found Hudson's coaching style to be a bit weird at open sessions but obviously it is fine.

Nah, his face just looks like that. His coaching is fine.

 

[lioninthesand]

This wont be popular but here goes.

Whilst we are all feeling positive, overall, this is an underwhelming coaching panel.

We have been / are / will be.. in desperate need off a deep, experienced, dynamic coaching assembly and this (on paper) again, is not it.

That does not mean I am angry or it wont work, I am excited about 2017, some Guys have done some good things at lower levels, but its hard to really convince myself otherwise as much as I want to.

I think it is simply due to having no money, so its ok, but that 'fresh start, real deal' coaching assembly hasn't really been possible for us again this offseason, I have been waiting for this box to be ticked for 6 years and again we go into a season with a half cooked cake.

But... we have good leaders and enough to start turning it around, heres to hoping we unearth a couple of speculative gems in the way of coaches along the way.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Bit of an overreaction IMO lioninthesand. You can't overhaul an entire coaching panel in one off-season. There are contracts etc to play out. The Bulldogs coaching panel doesn't look that sexy on paper either.

Our senior coach is widely regarded as the premier developer of coaches in the comp. Plenty here for him to work with for now. The sharpened focus on development is clearly what we need at present.

Next off-season will be when Fagan puts the remaining key pieces in place.

 

[M Malice]

This wont be popular but here goes.

Whilst we are all feeling positive, overall, this is an underwhelming coaching panel.

We have been / are / will be.. in desperate need off a deep, experienced, dynamic coaching assembly and this (on paper) again, is not it.

That does not mean I am angry or it wont work, I am excited about 2017, some Guys have done some good things at lower levels, but its hard to really convince myself otherwise as much as I want to.

I think it is simply due to having no money, so its ok, but that 'fresh start, real deal' coaching assembly hasn't really been possible for us again this offseason, I have been waiting for this box to be ticked for 6 years and again we go into a season with a half cooked cake.

But... we have good leaders and enough to start turning it around, heres to hoping we unearth a couple of speculative gems in the way of coaches along the way.

i am very upbeat re the people that have been recruited into our coaching setup ie. Fagan, Tapping, Littlejohn, Hennrikson and am also a fan of Adcock coming back.

as far as Hudson, Daly and Davis go, their track record is nothing to crow about but we should give them the benefit of the doubt for now IMO, with more experienced leadership they may thrive, if they are not up to the task Fagan and Noble will move them on quick smart.

i also expect Noble to have more to do with the coaching than would normally be the case for a HOF.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Does anyone remember what areas our recently departed coaches looked after?

 

[lioninthesand]

i am very upbeat re the people that have been recruited into our coaching setup ie. Fagan, Tapping, Littlejohn, Hennrikson and am also a fan of Adcock coming back.

as far as Hudson, Daly and Davis go, their track record is nothing to crow about but we should give them the benefit of the doubt for now IMO, with more experienced leadership they may thrive, if they are not up to the task Fagan and Noble will move them on quick smart.

i also expect Noble to have more to do with the coaching than would normally be the case for a HOF.

I agree we have done well with no budget, blow for blow (on paper) it is a very speculative coaching panel - if you were a senior coach and had to adopt any current coaching panel to work under you, I dare say it would be close to the last you would chose.

But funnily enough - I too am upbeat, I don't mind the 'from the ground up' potential of the panel.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

This wont be popular but here goes.

Whilst we are all feeling positive, overall, this is an underwhelming coaching panel.

To be frank, I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) what you and a few others really want is to be reassured by a couple of big names. I think the past 5 years should be evidence enough that big names don't equal coaching prowess. And like recruiting players, we're possibly not the easiest sell to proven assistant coaches who usually are loathe to uproot their families to come to a club that has been rightly or wrongly portrayed as a shambles on and off-field.

 

[lioninthesand]

Bit of an overreaction IMO lioninthesand. You can't overhaul an entire coaching panel in one off-season. There are contracts etc to play out. The Bulldogs coaching panel doesn't look that sexy on paper either.

Our senior coach is widely regarded as the premier developer of coaches in the comp. Plenty here for him to work with for now. The sharpened focus on development is clearly what we need at present.

Next off-season will be when Fagan puts the remaining key pieces in place.

I don't think its an over reaction, as I said - if you were a senior coach and had to adopt a whole staff from any club in the AFL currently in place, it wouldn't be high up on the list desirables.. just being realistic about it. However, strangly content given we have no money to throw around, also back fagen to devalop those we have, just aint that A team we are all craving (yet)

 

[lioninthesand]

To be frank, I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) what you and a few others really want is to be reassured by a couple of big names. I think the past 5 years should be evidence enough that big names don't equal coaching prowess. And like recruiting players, we're possibly not the easiest sell to proven assistant coaches who usually are loathe to uproot their families to come to a club that has been rightly or wrongly portrayed as a shambles on and off-field.

Big names? Or a mix of proven skill sets from sucsessful AFL systems? I prefer the second description. I have said several times now we have done well with what we have, but again - its a highly speculative, lower budget, coaching panel. All of the lower level guys cone with good PR but thats not out of the ordinary. Heres hoping to a fantastic, affordable, driven coaching panel in 2017.

 

[AFLQLD]

The coaching group seems to have been appointed with a much more strategic view to the future than we have had previously. I get the impression that the development coaches are going to be growing with the players and that is a large part of the intention of their appointments. We are developing coaches as well as players and it will take time for both.

 

[lioninthesand]

The coaching group seems to have been appointed with a much more strategic view to the future than we have had previously. I get the impression that the development coaches are going to be growing with the players and that is a large part of the intention of their appointments. We are developing coaches as well as players and it will take time for both.

Good explination to the strategy, still working within and underpinned by having not cash to splash, so best outcome really.

 

[SizeMatters]

This wont be popular but here goes.

Whilst we are all feeling positive, overall, this is an underwhelming coaching panel.

We have been / are / will be.. in desperate need off a deep, experienced, dynamic coaching assembly and this (on paper) again, is not it.

That does not mean I am angry or it wont work, I am excited about 2017, some Guys have done some good things at lower levels, but its hard to really convince myself otherwise as much as I want to.

I think it is simply due to having no money, so its ok, but that 'fresh start, real deal' coaching assembly hasn't really been possible for us again this offseason, I have been waiting for this box to be ticked for 6 years and again we go into a season with a half cooked cake.

But... we have good leaders and enough to start turning it around, heres to hoping we unearth a couple of speculative gems in the way of coaches along the way.

expect more changes to come at the end of next season after Fagan and Co. have seen what out our current contracted coaches can do. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[chopperduck]

We had to pay out Leppa's contract, even if there were a few more coaches we wanted to move on, we wouldn't be too keen on more pay outs. Turning over every single coach isn't probably the right way to go about it either. Fagan is noted as a coach maker, so to get some really good guys from roots level is probably a very good thing. I like the simple structure of the coaching panel, back forwards mids, with a few assistant assistants if that makes sense. I even like the way the NEAFL coaches are set up within the AFL line coaches as well. No special fancy names, just the basics and finding the right people to kick it off.

Will probably take Fagan a season to test run the existing coaches anyway to get a feel and a relationship with them to figure out what the coaching panel then might need added to it. Daly i still like as a coach, and is one who seemed to improve our team in his specific area since coming on board. I think he has a good all round grasp of the game and has his head around tactics pretty well too. Davis came very well rated, but really he couldn't do much with the defensive end with the way our team was playing. With a focus on defense i think he could really shine this year and really show us what he can do.

 

[matwt73]

I don't mind this coaching panel.

Clearly even with AFL money their are budget constraints, and Fagan an Noble have had to work within them, but this gives the impression of being a team put together to satisfy themselves, rather than satisfy the media or the fans. While it kinda falls into the 'we gotta just trust them' category, I don't think we have much choice.

Even the most plugged in fan will know less about what we need as a club than these two, and whilst that is no guarantee that their answer to the question will be correct, it is at least a reason to give them a shot. IN moments of doubt all we can do is go into our respective dens and take a long sweet draw on the hopium pipe.

 

[Davemonkey]

Bit of an overreaction IMO lioninthesand. You can't overhaul an entire coaching panel in one off-season. There are contracts etc to play out. The Bulldogs coaching panel doesn't look that sexy on paper either.

Our senior coach is widely regarded as the premier developer of coaches in the comp. Plenty here for him to work with for now. The sharpened focus on development is clearly what we need at present.

Next off-season will be when Fagan puts the remaining key pieces in place.

Not to mention that with a new senior coach and head of football the players are going to need some stability and sense of continuity. I reckon Fagan and Noble have assessed the current panel, promoted where they thought their was benefit and talent and are assessing others. As contracts both here and at other clubs pan out we will see changes, but imagine every senior, middle and line manager disaperaring from your workplace and being replaced by 'new talent'. That would be highly disruptive and nothing would get done for 6 months while everyone worked out what the hell everyone else did.

 

[lioninthesand]

expect more changes to come at the end of next season after Fagan and Co. have seen what out our current contracted coaches can do. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Exactly the same thing was said about Leppas panel each year, suppose I had hoped part of the overhaul might be something straight away - however on top of the things already mentioned, Noble said 'we have guys on contract' so there wasnt much room to move.

The logic and reason is fine, we have done well given the circumstaces, was just stating that realistically.. this aint anywhere near to 'that coachibg panel' yet.. though nor is it 'that playing list' or 'that facility'.. as you said Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Crusha]

I don't mind this coaching panel.

Clearly even with AFL money their are budget constraints, and Fagan an Noble have had to work within them, but this gives the impression of being a team put together to satisfy themselves, rather than satisfy the media or the fans. While it kinda falls into the 'we gotta just trust them' category, I don't think we have much choice.

Even the most plugged in fan will know less about what we need as a club than these two, and whilst that is no guarantee that their answer to the question will be correct, it is at least a reason to give them a shot. IN moments of doubt all we can do is go into our respective dens and take a long sweet draw on the hopium pipe.

In fact, unless they were both on board and making decisions long before their appointments were announced, they will have had little impact as to who has come on board.

Daley, Hahn, Davis, Hudson & Borlace were all under contract (or at least, on board), and Hendricksen & Littlejohn were reported to have been signed, before Noble & Fagan were "on board".
So, only Adcock & Tapping added by the "Dream Team".

True, that the individual roles within the structure will have been determined by them, but we will have to wait at least 12 months before we can assume that the coaching "team" is one they "put together" (within budget constraints, etc.)

(ps not a criticism of your post .....just some clarifying points)

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Football is a real complex strategic and analytic game for coaches.

There is simply far, far more that goes into coaching then simply what part of the ground you used to run around in when you played.

We could have a long debate about whether the modern game is necessarily that much more complicated and the coaching more complex or whether full-time professionalism and media saturation has just made it appear that way. Certainly David King and Dermie have built their media careers around convincing us that the game is a precise science and mere mortals cannot possibly understand all its intricacies without their expert tuition. And yet time and again the Lions have failed at the very basics, which haven't changed that much if at all over the years. I think you will find that Fagan's initial approach will be to get back to basics, master those, and then move on to the more complex, if necessary.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

In fact, unless they were both on board and making decisions long before their appointments were announced, they will have had little impact as to who has come on board.

Daley, Hahn, Davis, Hudson & Borlace were all under contract (or at least, on board), and Hendricksen & Littlejohn were reported to have been signed, before Noble & Fagan were "on board".
So, only Adcock & Tapping added by the "Dream Team".

True, that the individual roles within the structure will have been determined by them, but we will have to wait at least 12 months before we can assume that the coaching "team" is one they "put together" (within budget constraints, etc.)

(ps not a criticism of your post .....just some clarifying points)

Agree entirely. Definitely a sense that this is a reformation that is only partially completed.

 

[Matt_BL]

What will the setup be with the development coaches then? Will Littlejohn and Henrickson coach/review with the playing list during the week and assume NEAFL responsibilities on weekends?

The setup seems solid, wouldn't worry about having 'big names' as coaches. Voss and Leppa were two big names, Black too as midfield coach. Not always a correlation between playing ability and teaching ability.