Oppo Camp Brodie Grundy (Traded to Melbourne 2022)

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Great article outlining just how useless Grundy's stats have been this year, so much for the stats men, lol


BRODIE Grundy has become a more dominant tap ruckman in 2021 than his previous All-Australian seasons, but the Pies are operating better without him at centre bounces this year.
Hard to fathom? Let the stats explain before jumping to a conclusion on how he has performed.
According to Champion Data, Grundy is winning more hitouts and feeding his midfielders more per ruck contest this year than his previous three campaigns which include Therabody All-Australian blazers in 2018 and 2019.
The 27-year-old, who is 17 games into a seven-year contract with the Pies, has won 56.6 per cent of ruck contests this season. It has him ranked behind only Max Gawn and Paddy Ryder in the entire competition.
His hitout-to-advantage rate has also risen, putting the ball to his teammate's advantage 33.4 per cent of ruck contests – up on previous years. But relative to the competition, it has him ranked 14th of all ruckmen. You can argue whether that says more about Grundy or his new-look midfield unit.
GRUNDY'S KEY STATS 2018-21
2018 Avg2019 Avg2020 Avg2021 avg
Hitout Win %55.5%53.9%51.6%56.6%
Hitout-to-advantage rate32.1%28.7%27.8%33.4%
Hitout Sharked %16.5%16.6%15.4%19.4%
Score Involvements6.36.44.1*4.8
Disposals20.221.318.0*19.4
Clearances5.36.14.0*4.0
Goals0.350.290.20*0.67
*2020 number multiplied by 1.25 to balance the 20% shorter quarters.
Three weeks into the season, then Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley dismissed a "furphy" suggesting hitouts should correlate to wins with Brodie Grundy's dominance again unrewarded. Grundy had just recorded 54 of the Pies' 64 hitouts against Brisbane's grand total of four with Tom Fullarton carrying the load as the Lions stole victory at Marvel Stadium.
Digging deeper, an assessment of Grundy's 2021 campaign, one that was heavily scrutinised in the early stages, can go one of two ways depending on how you interpret the findings.
With his overall hitout numbers rising, so too have Grundy's shark rates – where opposition teams take advantage of the ball from his hitouts.


His score involvements and disposals are both up on last year but down on 2018-19, whereas his goals per game are at a career-high despite his time forward all but identical compared to 2018-2020.
The Pies have won the centre clearances on 42.9 per cent of occasions in 2021 with Grundy in attendance and 45.5 per cent of time without him.
Damning on the two-time best and fairest? Potentially, but the numbers suggest the same in 2018 when he was lauded as one of the best two big men in the competition and the Pies went within a whisker of a flag.
CENTRE BOUNCE WIN RATE
2018 2019 2020 2021
CB Win % with Grundy43.1%42.2%45.5%42.9%
CB Win % Without Grundy45.3%38.1%45.5%45.5%
An All-Australian blazer will elude him this season as he deals with a different midfield set-up that has seen more of Jack Crisp, Josh Daicos replacing 2020 regulars Jamie Elliott and Adam Treloar. Scott Pendlebury has also rotated out at stages.
Incoming Collingwood president Mark Korda suggested earlier this year the Pies would've preferred they only sign Grundy to a four-year deal, but the market dictated he sign for seven to ward off rival interest (namely Adelaide).
So, when assessing the value of the deal in the early stages – is it fair to compare to his lofty heights of 2018 and 2019 when the Pies went within a kick and game respectively of the flag? Or compare to other ruckmen where he remains among the most revered in the game?
One thing is for certain – he will be a central figure to the Pies' midfield re-generation in coming years with even more spotlight to come on his impact leading the club's engine room.

www.afl.com.au

Bizarre stats: What do these weird numbers say about Grundy's year?

Is Brodie Grundy having a good season? The stats tell an interesting tale
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
 
TW Sherrin said:
its was a diabolical contract the second it was signed.

if he has earned his million this year he'll be starting ruckman in the AA team. do you think he'll even make the 40?
Click to expand...



Apply your rule of thumb to all the highest paid players....I reckon there's maybe half a dozen of them meeting your expectations?

1) Lance Franklin (Sydney Swans): $1.45million to $1.5million
2) Jeremy McGovern (West Coast): $1.2million to $1.25million
3) Dustin Martin (Richmond): $1.2million to $1.25million
4) Nat Fyfe (Fremantle): $1.075million to $1.1million
5) Brodie Grundy (Collingwood): $925,000 to $975,000
6) Patrick Dangerfield (Geelong): $900,000 to $950,000
7) Patrick Cripps (Carlton): $900,000 to $950,000
8) Stephen Coniglio (GWS): $900,000 to $950,000
9) Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs): $900,000 to $950,000
10) Jeremy Cameron (Geelong): $850,000 to $900,000
11) Adam Treloar (Western Bulldogs): $850,000 to $900,000
12) Rory Sloane (Adelaide): $825,000 to $875,000
13) Isaac Heeney (Sydney): $825,000 to $875,000
14) Christian Petracca (Melbourne): $800,000 to $850,000
15) Lachie Whitfield (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
16) Toby Green (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
17) Josh Kelly (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
18) Max Gawn (Melbourne): $800,00 to $850,000
19) Brad Hill (St Kilda): $800,000 to $850,000
20) Joe Daniher (Brisbane): $800,000 to $850,000
21) Tom Mitchell (Hawthorn): $800,000 to $850,000
22) Ollie Wines (Port Adelaide): $800,000 to $850,000
23) Zac Williams (Carlton): $775,000 to $825,000
24) Jaeger O'Meara (Hawthorn): $775,000 to $825,000
25) Jacob Weitering (Carlton): $775,000 to $825,000
 
jackcass said:
I disagree. I think Grundy's proficiency in his clearance work stems from his ruck work. He lacks the mobility or agility to play in the midfield group as a ruck-rover and coordinating a changeover scenario is overly reliant upon winning the clearance to enable proximity.

Our issue isn't Grundy IMHO, it's our midfielders, and I'm not sure how changing Grundy and Lynch in the guts remediates that. People point to Lynch's game against Gawn and our improved centre clearances, but if it was just about Lynch then we'd also be seeing the same at VFL level consistently which just isn't the case. It was an anomaly, a very small sample size, let's not read more into it than was there.
Click to expand...

A very good sample size though. A sample size good enough and big enough for other clubs to be reportedly interested in him.

But unfortunately the club has not given him another opportunity at senior level.
Robroy22 said:
Apply your rule of thumb to all the highest paid players....I reckon there's maybe half a dozen of them meeting your expectations?

1) Lance Franklin (Sydney Swans): $1.45million to $1.5million
2) Jeremy McGovern (West Coast): $1.2million to $1.25million
3) Dustin Martin (Richmond): $1.2million to $1.25million
4) Nat Fyfe (Fremantle): $1.075million to $1.1million
5) Brodie Grundy (Collingwood): $925,000 to $975,000
6) Patrick Dangerfield (Geelong): $900,000 to $950,000
7) Patrick Cripps (Carlton): $900,000 to $950,000
8) Stephen Coniglio (GWS): $900,000 to $950,000
9) Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs): $900,000 to $950,000
10) Jeremy Cameron (Geelong): $850,000 to $900,000
11) Adam Treloar (Western Bulldogs): $850,000 to $900,000
12) Rory Sloane (Adelaide): $825,000 to $875,000
13) Isaac Heeney (Sydney): $825,000 to $875,000
14) Christian Petracca (Melbourne): $800,000 to $850,000
15) Lachie Whitfield (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
16) Toby Green (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
17) Josh Kelly (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
18) Max Gawn (Melbourne): $800,00 to $850,000
19) Brad Hill (St Kilda): $800,000 to $850,000
20) Joe Daniher (Brisbane): $800,000 to $850,000
21) Tom Mitchell (Hawthorn): $800,000 to $850,000
22) Ollie Wines (Port Adelaide): $800,000 to $850,000
23) Zac Williams (Carlton): $775,000 to $825,000
24) Jaeger O'Meara (Hawthorn): $775,000 to $825,000
25) Jacob Weitering (Carlton): $775,000 to $825,000
Click to expand...

What does the bold mean? I thought i knew what it meant but Martins name was not highlighted so it cannot mean that.
 

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JLC said:
A very good sample size though. A sample size good enough and big enough for other clubs to be reportedly interested in him.

But unfortunately the club has not given him another opportunity at senior level.


What does the bold mean? I thought i knew what it meant but Martins name was not highlighted so it cannot mean that.
Click to expand...



Dusty will be AA this year will he?
 
manicpie said:
Great article outlining just how useless Grundy's stats have been this year, so much for the stats men, lol


BRODIE Grundy has become a more dominant tap ruckman in 2021 than his previous All-Australian seasons, but the Pies are operating better without him at centre bounces this year.
Hard to fathom? Let the stats explain before jumping to a conclusion on how he has performed.
According to Champion Data, Grundy is winning more hitouts and feeding his midfielders more per ruck contest this year than his previous three campaigns which include Therabody All-Australian blazers in 2018 and 2019.
The 27-year-old, who is 17 games into a seven-year contract with the Pies, has won 56.6 per cent of ruck contests this season. It has him ranked behind only Max Gawn and Paddy Ryder in the entire competition.
His hitout-to-advantage rate has also risen, putting the ball to his teammate's advantage 33.4 per cent of ruck contests – up on previous years. But relative to the competition, it has him ranked 14th of all ruckmen. You can argue whether that says more about Grundy or his new-look midfield unit.
GRUNDY'S KEY STATS 2018-21
2018 Avg2019 Avg2020 Avg2021 avg
Hitout Win %55.5%53.9%51.6%56.6%
Hitout-to-advantage rate32.1%28.7%27.8%33.4%
Hitout Sharked %16.5%16.6%15.4%19.4%
Score Involvements6.36.44.1*4.8
Disposals20.221.318.0*19.4
Clearances5.36.14.0*4.0
Goals0.350.290.20*0.67
*2020 number multiplied by 1.25 to balance the 20% shorter quarters.
Three weeks into the season, then Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley dismissed a "furphy" suggesting hitouts should correlate to wins with Brodie Grundy's dominance again unrewarded. Grundy had just recorded 54 of the Pies' 64 hitouts against Brisbane's grand total of four with Tom Fullarton carrying the load as the Lions stole victory at Marvel Stadium.
Digging deeper, an assessment of Grundy's 2021 campaign, one that was heavily scrutinised in the early stages, can go one of two ways depending on how you interpret the findings.
With his overall hitout numbers rising, so too have Grundy's shark rates – where opposition teams take advantage of the ball from his hitouts.


His score involvements and disposals are both up on last year but down on 2018-19, whereas his goals per game are at a career-high despite his time forward all but identical compared to 2018-2020.
The Pies have won the centre clearances on 42.9 per cent of occasions in 2021 with Grundy in attendance and 45.5 per cent of time without him.
Damning on the two-time best and fairest? Potentially, but the numbers suggest the same in 2018 when he was lauded as one of the best two big men in the competition and the Pies went within a whisker of a flag.
CENTRE BOUNCE WIN RATE
2018 2019 2020 2021
CB Win % with Grundy43.1%42.2%45.5%42.9%
CB Win % Without Grundy45.3%38.1%45.5%45.5%
An All-Australian blazer will elude him this season as he deals with a different midfield set-up that has seen more of Jack Crisp, Josh Daicos replacing 2020 regulars Jamie Elliott and Adam Treloar. Scott Pendlebury has also rotated out at stages.
Incoming Collingwood president Mark Korda suggested earlier this year the Pies would've preferred they only sign Grundy to a four-year deal, but the market dictated he sign for seven to ward off rival interest (namely Adelaide).
So, when assessing the value of the deal in the early stages – is it fair to compare to his lofty heights of 2018 and 2019 when the Pies went within a kick and game respectively of the flag? Or compare to other ruckmen where he remains among the most revered in the game?
One thing is for certain – he will be a central figure to the Pies' midfield re-generation in coming years with even more spotlight to come on his impact leading the club's engine room.

www.afl.com.au

Bizarre stats: What do these weird numbers say about Grundy's year?

Is Brodie Grundy having a good season? The stats tell an interesting tale
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
Click to expand...
It's almost as if you didn't read the article. One of the main points is that this has been the case for 3 of the last 4 years...

It's also a bit silly. The number of bounces that Grundy hasn't attended would be miniscule. The number of bounces not attended by Grundy but by the opposition #1 ruck would be even smaller. We're also winning CBs with Grundy at the same rate as when we were Grand and Preliminary finalists with, give or take half a percent.

If anything, this article clearly indicates that the fault is not with Grundy, if his efforts at centre bounces mirror that of years when he was the AA ruckman of a contending team. Nice
 
JLC said:
A very good sample size though. A sample size good enough and big enough for other clubs to be reportedly interested in him.

But unfortunately the club has not given him another opportunity at senior level.
Click to expand...

Well our sample size is 2 games. How'd he go against the Bears up at the Gabba?
 
gouki88 said:
It's almost as if you didn't read the article. One of the main points is that this has been the case for 3 of the last 4 years...

It's also a bit silly. The number of bounces that Grundy hasn't attended would be miniscule. The number of bounces not attended by Grundy but by the opposition #1 ruck would be even smaller. We're also winning CBs with Grundy at the same rate as when we were Grand and Preliminary finalists with, give or take half a percent.

If anything, this article clearly indicates that the fault is not with Grundy, if his efforts at centre bounces mirror that of years when he was the AA ruckman of a contending team. Nice
Click to expand...
I believe the problem is that his method is limited and entirely too predictable - also he gets down amongst the mids, disrupting their running patterns - it was great before the opposition coaches worked out his strengths and methods.

But they know him inside out now and have worked out methods to neutralize him at centre bounces.
 
jonmacTrag said:
I believe the problem is that his method is limited and entirely too predictable - also he gets down amongst the mids, disrupting their running patterns - it was great before the opposition coaches worked out his strengths and methods.

But they know him inside out now and have worked out methods to neutralize him at centre bounces.
Click to expand...
Does it count as Sharking when Grundy puts it down their throat? I'm surprised how many times the big man gives them clean possession out of the guts not to mention the amount of times he assists the opposition with boundary throw ins near goal.
 
Robroy22 said:
What do they say about Grundy's year these stats???/
They tell me that AFL.com need more CFC articles than ever to stay in the public eye.
As usual....Collingwood sells
Click to expand...
You're not going to go down that path are you?, I thought you would have learned from the pre season that the media generally get it right. The article wasn't some sensationalist mumbo jumbo, it was simply pointing out the facts, he wasn't guessing about anything or making stuff up, he was just reporting some facts
 
manicpie said:
You're not going to go down that path are you?, I thought you would have learned from the pre season that the media generally get it right. The article wasn't some sensationalist mumbo jumbo, it was simply pointing out the facts, he wasn't guessing about anything or making stuff up, he was just reporting some facts
Click to expand...



Ok....so why do such a piece on a bottom 4 sides ruckman? Why didn't he do a hatchet job on a side fighting for the finals or a top 4 spot?
 

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Robroy22 said:
Apply your rule of thumb to all the highest paid players....I reckon there's maybe half a dozen of them meeting your expectations?

1) Lance Franklin (Sydney Swans): $1.45million to $1.5million
2) Jeremy McGovern (West Coast): $1.2million to $1.25million
3) Dustin Martin (Richmond): $1.2million to $1.25million
4) Nat Fyfe (Fremantle): $1.075million to $1.1million
5) Brodie Grundy (Collingwood): $925,000 to $975,000
6) Patrick Dangerfield (Geelong): $900,000 to $950,000
7) Patrick Cripps (Carlton): $900,000 to $950,000
8) Stephen Coniglio (GWS): $900,000 to $950,000
9) Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs): $900,000 to $950,000
10) Jeremy Cameron (Geelong): $850,000 to $900,000
11) Adam Treloar (Western Bulldogs): $850,000 to $900,000
12) Rory Sloane (Adelaide): $825,000 to $875,000
13) Isaac Heeney (Sydney): $825,000 to $875,000
14) Christian Petracca (Melbourne): $800,000 to $850,000
15) Lachie Whitfield (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
16) Toby Green (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
17) Josh Kelly (GWS): $800,000 to $850,000
18) Max Gawn (Melbourne): $800,00 to $850,000
19) Brad Hill (St Kilda): $800,000 to $850,000
20) Joe Daniher (Brisbane): $800,000 to $850,000
21) Tom Mitchell (Hawthorn): $800,000 to $850,000
22) Ollie Wines (Port Adelaide): $800,000 to $850,000
23) Zac Williams (Carlton): $775,000 to $825,000
24) Jaeger O'Meara (Hawthorn): $775,000 to $825,000
25) Jacob Weitering (Carlton): $775,000 to $825,000
Click to expand...
Yep. It's a team game. The whole industry needs to cut out such disproportionate salaries.
 
Robroy22 said:
Ok....so why do such a piece on a bottom 4 sides ruckman? Why didn't he do a hatchet job on a side fighting for the finals or a top 4 spot?
Click to expand...

A bottom 4 side ruckman, who also apparently is the 5th highest paid player in the league according to your earlier post…


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
 
I would like Grundy to scrap the consistent defensive side taps, because even when we win those we are backpeddling and it often turns to s**t.

With Grundy overall its not about stats, its the mental and physical application, particularly over a 4 quarter period. I also have concerns and frustrations about his body language, passiveness and resilience.
 
Robroy22 said:
What do they say about Grundy's year these stats???/
They tell me that AFL.com need more CFC articles than ever to stay in the public eye.
As usual....Collingwood sells
Click to expand...

What it tells me is that despite the media beginning to feed us a larger variety of stats, those stats are never explained and there are still heaps of stats that aren't fed to us, so we can't come to any conclusions just from the stats anyway.

Eg. We look worse off with Grundy at centre bounces because we win a lower percentage of clearances from them. And at only 42% it looks bad, because we assume it's a solely win or lose scenario. But with Grundy hitting it to the centre of congestion as a default, I daresay a higher percentage of his duels end as secondary bounces, so we probably also lose a lower percentage of clearances when he's in the ruck, as I assume many centre bounces are recorded as no result rather than win or lose.

Meanwhile, it's clear from press conferences that AFL coaches have moved on from simply looking at raw number of clearances won or lost, but have moved to looking at outcomes from clearances, which can indicate the quality of the clearance. A clean clearance that hits a teammate is obviously beneficial, whereas a clearance that just bombs it forward to the opposition zone to gobble up is probably a negative despite some metres being gained and a clearance being attributed to the team.

Basically, even with us being fed more sophisticated stats than we used to get, they're still too simplified to really say much at all.
 
Piestration said:
Does it count as Sharking when Grundy puts it down their throat? I'm surprised how many times the big man gives them clean possession out of the guts not to mention the amount of times he assists the opposition with boundary throw ins near goal.
Click to expand...
It's a matter of flexibility really he has never been taught to vary his method enough to confound the opposition.
That doesn't mean he isn't capable of it - just that he hasn't learned to.
 
jonmacTrag said:
I believe the problem is that his method is limited and entirely too predictable - also he gets down amongst the mids, disrupting their running patterns - it was great before the opposition coaches worked out his strengths and methods.

But they know him inside out now and have worked out methods to neutralize him at centre bounces.
Click to expand...
I agree, it's one thing that has frustrated me endlessly about our stubborn coaching, especially when Grundy talked about how he had been directed specifically to not grab it out of the ruck or punch it clear of the stoppage.

Buckley to me always had this attitude of 'the best player will win their 1v1 regardless' as a coach. It's why (to me) he was so slow to react to some pretty obvious things, like a Sidebottom tag for example. Just stubborn. Don't know that Harvey is different
 
gouki88 said:
I agree, it's one thing that has frustrated me endlessly about our stubborn coaching, especially when Grundy talked about how he had been directed specifically to not grab it out of the ruck or punch it clear of the stoppage.

Buckley to me always had this attitude of 'the best player will win their 1v1 regardless' as a coach. It's why (to me) he was so slow to react to some pretty obvious things, like a Sidebottom tag for example. Just stubborn. Don't know that Harvey is different
Click to expand...
Well I can't think of anything more certain than Harvs not getting the gig full time so it's a matter of who now.
 
KrispyKremePie said:
A bottom 4 side ruckman, who also apparently is the 5th highest paid player in the league according to your earlier post…


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...




Lots of underperforming players on that list KKP, even some captains! Some clubs have multiple offenders....but yeah let's just concentrate on the single Collingwood player out of the list (who's stats are really pretty good by anyone's standards) and let's question HIS value. Hmmmm really unbiased "journalism" there methinks.

Look....its a garbage article meant to stir up the CFC faithful and to get clicks for their website. And its achieved its aim....masterful journalism! I reckon he should have tried to link it into the "Dirty Pies" (and particularly Grundy) somehow causing the Covid epidemic but maybe he missed his chance there? (or maybe he's saving THAT up for a future article!)
 
Leviathan Pie said:
It gets worse every week - I’m almost embarrassed for him.
Click to expand...
His ruck-work hasn't been flash, but his contested work (contested possessions, clearances, tackles) has been really strong, and he's getting a heap of the footy - if his disposal efficiency lifts he's been pretty good.

I think losing Pendles has screwed our midfield organisation. Nobody else seems to do any directing
 
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