News Brownlow Betting Scandal allegations - 6th Dec Police Widen Investigations

[Aristotle Pickett]

I think it reasonable to say that with this and the racism at Hawthorn (and elsewhere) Baron Gill's term in office has left the game poorer than when he began.

Yep, Gil will be known for letting racism slide and not taking head trauma serioisly enough.
He likes to sweep things under the carpet.

 

[JyeDye]

They should let him off. Honestly the AFL should encourage the umpires to be more corrupt. Adds a bit of spice to a game. Who the hell gives a s**t about an Adelaide vs North game, but if they add in a bit of corruption and one umpire has a Tex to kick 10 goals bet and another North to win bet, it might be a more interesting game.

 

[FRUMPY]

gotta laugh at zorko and others saying umpires shouldnt be the ones casting votes......for the umpires award

It is literally the umpires award - we already have plenty of other awards voted by 'experts' and basically the top 10 are the same in every award with a different order, umpires seem to do pretty well in comparison to the 'experts' all thing considering.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

gotta laugh at zorko and others saying umpires shouldnt be the ones casting votes......for the umpires award

It is literally the umpires award - we already have plenty of other awards voted by 'experts' and basically the top 10 are the same in every award with a different order, umpires seem to do pretty well in comparison to the 'experts' all thing considering.

I agree, if non-umpires vote it'sa different award altogether and will have minimal interest.

 

[Some Idiot]

Part of the uniqueness of the award is the fact that vote givers are out on the ground with the players and thus have a very different perspective on the game compared to say spectators, media and coaches. I'd hate for it to lose that and become another award with an 'expert panel' where the expert panel is mostly just media personalities anyway. There's plenty of media awards already.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

Sounds like there were 2 games he was an emergency are in spotlight qb game coll vs melb and rnd 23 syd vs saints

Very odd that only St Kilda players got votes in that game despite being down by 3-5 goals for much of the night, and of course subsequently losing.

With regards to Queens birthday, it was widely acknowledged that either Oliver (who won the medal) or Cox (who was marking the ball like he was Wayne Carey) was BOG.
Instead Mihocek got the 3 votes and he would've been long odds despite kicking 4 goals.
Imagine a full forward kicking 4 goals in the 1980's/1990's getting the 3 votes.

 

[kozi]

How far do you honestly have to stretch your brain to think about who were the few best players in the ground when you've been on the ground with them for 2 hours??

What is your logic here?

The umps are sitting there going "is this holding the ball maybe, yep dragged it in, fair tackle, I'll pay holding the b-hey Clayton Oliver has been super today, probably 3 votes, yeah I think I'll tell the others Clayton deserves the 3, * what was I going to say, um HIGH TACKLE"

It's really not that difficult.

Any attention on Brownlow votes while they're running around trying to umpire detracts from what they should be focused on. I don't want umps even 1% focused on it. You can make anything look stupid by taking it to the extreme like you did with the Oliver example.

I should’ve put it that way last night.

Seriously silly logic.

Even sillier is saying they have no concept of it while on the field

 

[Jetafl]

They should let him off. Honestly the AFL should encourage the umpires to be more corrupt

Well, that approach seems to work well in the American midterms.

 

[GROTTO]

Imagine a full forward kicking 4 goals in the 1980's/1990's getting the 3 votes.

Agree.

Happy to proven wrong, I wouldnt be surprised if it never happened.

In the 90s, Full Forwards were kicking 4 goals in a half game and many times they kicked huge bags.

Just from a Crows perspective and looking at just one year 1993, Modra kicked 4+ 18 times, he got 3votes in just 3 games, probably the games in which he kicked 13,10 and 10 goals.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Any attention on Brownlow votes while they're running around trying to umpire detracts from what they should be focused on. I don't want umps even 1% focused on it. You can make anything look stupid by taking it to the extreme like you did with the Oliver example.


Even sillier is saying they have no concept of it while on the field

Can we take that rationale to players?
Get rid of individual awards altogether?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Can we take that rationale to players?
Get rid of individual awards altogether?

Can’t have the players voting on the AFL MVP, they might not be 100% focused on the game.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Can’t have the players voting on the AFL MVP, they might not be 100% focused on the game.

Can’t have coaches voting on the AFLCA either, they might not be 100% focused on the game.

 

[kozi]

Can’t have the players voting on the AFL MVP, they might not be 100% focused on the game.

Can’t have coaches voting on the AFLCA either, they might not be 100% focused on the game.

Coaches = acutely aware of it as part of their job without giving it a second thought
Players = don't think about it when competing, don't have to give votes right after the game

Umpires = have to think about it during the game

When you start comparing apples and oranges you're just about all out of steam.

 

[VL3OJ]

Coaches = acutely aware of it as part of their job without giving it a second thought
Players = don't think about it when competing, don't have to give votes right after the game

Umpires = have to think about it during the game

When you start comparing apples and oranges you're just about all out of steam.

What a load of tripe. If the three + the emergency can't have a rational discussion post game after being front and centre for two hours, then I will nominate kozi with three votes each game for an entire season

 

[kozi]

What a load of tripe. If the three + the emergency can't have a rational discussion post game after being front and centre for two hours, then I will nominate kozi with three votes each game for an entire season

They can and do obviously discuss it after the game.. that doesn't preclude them from giving it thought during the game. If you like you can replace "have to" with "do" in the post you quoted and it's still the same outcome.

To recap - the discussion was around not believing they just flick a switch when to start thinking about it and as an impending task it being there on some level during the game. Others don't think that and there is where the back and forth came from.

Discussion was done and dusted until old mate Kreuzurns couldn't help himself instead of just letting it go.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Why?, it doesnt cost the tax payer or government any money to support or bail out gambling addicts. They only crack down on things that cost money like healthcare for cigarette & drug takers. Alcohol doesnt seem to get a mention these days either but that generates a shitton of revenue for the government coffers.

Oh I must tell those homeless people who turn up to ED seeking shelter/ self harming due to gambling debts that they are imaginary.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Coaches = acutely aware of it as part of their job without giving it a second thought
Players = don't think about it when competing, don't have to give votes right after the game

Umpires = have to think about it during the game

When you start comparing apples and oranges you're just about all out of steam.

Actually, just quoting how you think each group works is not a statement of fact, it’s your opinion.

Noting that the question of who could be more impartial than an umpire is not being answered by anyone. Just some vague term about “independent expert panel”. Cant wait to see who would be proposed to be sit on that panel, and not be swayed by external factors, club playing history, media pressure, sponsors. Barely works for the Norm Smith.

 

[HairyO]

It's been stated in this thread that umpires don't get to look at the stats till after they have done the votes. They might see stats when it comes up on the screen occasionally, but it's probably not the biggest factor in their votes.

Im sure they dont get told free kick counts either - even though almost every time a team in the 2nd half will see their free kick deficit start to even up.

 

[Crankyhawk]

"engaging in conduct that corrupts or would corrupt a betting outcome"

But it’s all fair for betting companies to block winning punters… surely that is also corrupting a betting outcome

 

[Tulip]

This is timed well for the AFL, insofar as it can be.

We've now had two consecutive years where the Brownlow winner wasn't even the best midfielder, never mind the best player, that season. Cripps had a spectacular start to the year, but even Carlton fans were a bit bemused by him winning it. Wines had a cracking 2021 but Bont and a few others were better.

Reform the medal, keep the 3-2-1 system but put it in the hands of someone else.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

Reform the medal, keep the 3-2-1 system but put it in the hands of someone else.

No one seems to be able to provide who this "someone else" would actually be, in a way that would not invite even more claims of favouritism, bias, blatant error, stat watching, corruption, external/media influence, etc.

 

[Dirty Bird]

This is timed well for the AFL, insofar as it can be.

We've now had two consecutive years where the Brownlow winner wasn't even the best midfielder, never mind the best player, that season. Cripps had a spectacular start to the year, but even Carlton fans were a bit bemused by him winning it. Wines had a cracking 2021 but Bont and a few others were better.

Reform the medal, keep the 3-2-1 system but put it in the hands of someone else.

Perhaps go the route of the 1976-77 seasons.

Just this time all field umpires vote

 

[SunshineBoy]

Has Gilligan made a statement about the corruption in his ranks yet?

 

[Satan]

Has Gilligan made a statement about the corruption in his ranks yet?

2 weeks away

 

[Area51]

2 weeks away

Has Gil not made any comment yet? I searched and couldn't find anything.