Brownlow Discussion

[Noidenous]

I think the way all awards are judged is crazy because a full back that performs well for 22 games has just as much influence on results as a mid who racks up big numbers.

This is exactly the scenario I was referring to.

The notion that 'even coaches ignore them' because they're somehow not influential to the performance of the midfield is laughable.

Stephen Silvagni - 69 total Brownlow votes over 312 games despite being the most recognised Full Back to have played. Less total votes than Daniel Wells, Drew Petrie and Brad Sewell.

Matthew Scarlett - Not even in the top 500 players.

 

[Saintbloke]

I guess looking at the Brownlow results, we really need to get more class into our midfield for the next big step. Steven played some great games, but went missing in a few games where he got tagged too easy, and once that happens, there is no outside run. I'm still uneasy about Roo being our top votes winner- the guy has done his bit, and there should be more pressure on him from our middle brigade.
Next year, I expect Acres, Gresh, Dustan and Ross to take more big steps and be more dominant, but we need more pace, so over to the recruiters.

 

[plugger66]

This is exactly the scenario I was referring to.

The notion that 'even coaches ignore them' because they're somehow not influential to the performance of the midfield is laughable.

Stephen Silvagni - 69 total Brownlow votes over 312 games despite being the most recognised Full Back to have played. Less total votes than Daniel Wells, Drew Petrie and Brad Sewell.

Matthew Scarlett - Not even in the top 500 players.

How many other awards did Steve Silvagni win? When was the last coaches award not won by a midfielder? Its laughable that people suggest the brownlow is different to other awards. The only awards that are different are club awards. But some people always just want to have a go at umpiring in anyway possible.

 

[lewdogs]

I guess looking at the Brownlow results, we really need to get more class into our midfield for the next big step. Steven played some great games, but went missing in a few games where he got tagged too easy, and once that happens, there is no outside run. I'm still uneasy about Roo being our top votes winner- the guy has done his bit, and there should be more pressure on him from our middle brigade.
Next year, I expect Acres, Gresh, Dustan and Ross to take more big steps and be more dominant, but we need more pace, so over to the recruiters.

Agreed. If Acres could grab 10 votes, Ross move to 15-odd, Billings 10, Dunstan 5-10, we would find that we'd had a very good season I'd imagine.

 

[Noidenous]

How many other awards did Steve Silvagni win? When was the last coaches award not won by a midfielder? Its laughable that people suggest the brownlow is different to other awards. The only awards that are different are club awards. But some people always just want to have a go at umpiring in anyway possible.

Where do you get the idea I want a reason to abuse umpires? That's one of the most absurd statements I've read for some time.

I'm talking about the lack of recognition by the league and its media, on the whole (that means everyone), for players who aren't midfielders or darling forwards. And no, I'm not expecting every single player to be a 'superstar of the competition' in case you're inclined to trot that one out also.

As for the coaches, they provide far more recognition of defenders than anyone else under the structure of their voting system. It's not just 'x got 40 touches and Y got 35 touches and Z got 5 goals, so votes', however there's still far too much emphasis on the sport's equivalent of a **** and 'splosions movie.

In a position where there's maximum exposure to the ball, your efforts are sighted far more often, thus more interesting in a spectator's eyes. This concept of comparative ability is nothing-speak and quite frankly I scoff at its presentation as supposedly irrefutable fact.

 

[12Chill]

Riewoldt's 4x3 vote games last night bring him to 28 career BOGs (as adjudicated by the umpires of course), surpassing Carey's 27. Although Roo has played 319 games to Carey's 272.

Further reference with some of the other great key forwards:
N. Riewoldt - 28 BOGs in 319 games (still active).
M. Richardson - 28 BOGs in 282 games.
W. Carey - 27 BOGs in 272 games.
L. Franklin - 24 BOGs in 246 games (still active).
J. Brown - 23 BOGs in 256 games.
M. Pavlich - 22 BOGs in 353 games.
W. Tredrea - 16 BOGs in 255 games.
B. Hall - 16 BOGs in 289 games.
M. Lloyd - 14 BOGs in 270 games.
J. Kennedy - 14 BOGs in 188 games (still active).

 

[plugger66]

deak

Where do you get the idea I want a reason to abuse umpires? That's one of the most absurd statements I've read for some time.

I'm talking about the lack of recognition by the league and its media, on the whole (that means everyone), for players who aren't midfielders or darling forwards. And no, I'm not expecting every single player to be a 'superstar of the competition' in case you're inclined to trot that one out also.

As for the coaches, they provide far more recognition of defenders than anyone else under the structure of their voting system. It's not just 'x got 40 touches and Y got 35 touches and Z got 5 goals, so votes', however there's still far too much emphasis on the sport's equivalent of a **** and 'splosions movie.

In a position where there's maximum exposure to the ball, your efforts are sighted far more often, thus more interesting in a spectator's eyes. This concept of comparative ability is nothing-speak and quite frankly I scoff at its presentation as supposedly irrefutable fact.

Its usually umpire bashing when having a go at the brownlow. If it wasn't meant by then sorry. And surely players and coaches recognise other players than mids but over the year the mids are obviously the best players under the 3 2 1 voting system. You need to remember that when clubs give votes its a different system and only one team is getting votes. A player could be 12 best on the ground but get full votes in his own award. Also clubs know the specific jobs they have given players. No one could expect umpires and media to know that sort of stuff.

Its easy to complain but unless people come up with a better way of doing things I still say the way the brownlow is don't now is clearly the best way to do it. Its basically always been a midfielders award as are nearly all the others. Maybe they are the best players. Peter Hudson kicked 150 goals one year and didn't win the B&F.

 

[George]

Should just be tallied up by the coaches votes at the end of each game. At least the coaches give a more measured vote.

 

[plugger66]

Should just be tallied up by the coaches votes at the end of each game. At least the coaches give a more measured vote.

So you want biased coaches doing two awards. They have an award that is won by mids. The brownlow is the umpire award won by mids.

 

[George]

So you want biased coaches doing two awards. They have an award that is won by mids. The brownlow is the umpire award won by mids.

Better understanding of the game than biased umpires.

 

[plugger66]

Better understanding of the game than biased umpires.

Umpires aren't biased but ok lets pretend they are. Why would you want 2 awards given by the same people? They have their award and its won by mids and second and third are mids. Strangely the last 3 coaches award winners were Ablett, Fyffe and Danger. Seems the umpires got it completely wrong.

 

[George]

Umpires aren't biased but ok lets pretend they are. Why would you want 2 awards given by the same people? They have their award and its won by mids and second and third are mids. Strangely the last 3 coaches award winners were Ablett, Fyffe and Danger. Seems the umpires got it completely wrong.

Coaches aren't biased but lets pretend they are

 

[plugger66]

Coaches aren't biased but lets pretend they are

Lets just say Brad Scott when they played the WB. Don't have to pretend.

 

[George]

Lets just say Brad Scott when they played the WB. Don't have to pretend.

Haha

 

[JG22]

Agreed. If Acres could grab 10 votes, Ross move to 15-odd, Billings 10, Dunstan 5-10, we would find that we'd had a very good season I'd imagine.

Gresham will get 10+

 

[Highlander35]

Greater Western Sydney 92
Adelaide 87
Geelong 84
West Coast 83
Western Bulldogs 81
St Kilda 76
Hawthorn 73
Melbourne 71
Collingwood 66
Port Adelaide 64
North Melbourne 63
Richmond 52
Carlton 45
Fremantle 45
Gold Coast 45
Essendon 36
Brisbane Lions 20

6th on the Tally for a team that missed the finals isn't bad, even if we do clearly need better mid depth

 

[DT_35]

Greater Western Sydney 92
Adelaide 87
Geelong 84
West Coast 83
Western Bulldogs 81
St Kilda 76
Hawthorn 73
Melbourne 71
Collingwood 66
Port Adelaide 64
North Melbourne 63
Richmond 52
Carlton 45
Fremantle 45
Gold Coast 45
Essendon 36
Brisbane Lions 20

6th on the Tally for a team that missed the finals isn't bad, even if we do clearly need better mid depth

Sydney?

Would make us 7th

 

[Strahany]

Riewoldt's 4x3 vote games last night bring him to 28 career BOGs (as adjudicated by the umpires of course), surpassing Carey's 27. Although Roo has played 319 games to Carey's 272.

Further reference with some of the other great key forwards:
N. Riewoldt - 28 BOGs in 319 games (still active).
M. Richardson - 28 BOGs in 282 games.
W. Carey - 27 BOGs in 272 games.
L. Franklin - 24 BOGs in 246 games (still active).
J. Brown - 23 BOGs in 256 games.
M. Pavlich - 22 BOGs in 353 games.
W. Tredrea - 16 BOGs in 255 games.
B. Hall - 16 BOGs in 289 games.
M. Lloyd - 14 BOGs in 270 games.
J. Kennedy - 14 BOGs in 188 games (still active).

Should be on 29, after he was robbed of the BOG against Sydney on ANZAC day. Ted Richards getting 3 votes for getting towelled up by Roo??

 

[Highlander35]

Sydney?

Would make us 7th

woops. yes. Sydney 105

 

[JG22]

Greater Western Sydney 92
Adelaide 87
Geelong 84
West Coast 83
Western Bulldogs 81
St Kilda 76
Hawthorn 73
Melbourne 71
Collingwood 66
Port Adelaide 64
North Melbourne 63
Richmond 52
Carlton 45
Fremantle 45
Gold Coast 45
Essendon 36
Brisbane Lions 20

6th on the Tally for a team that missed the finals isn't bad, even if we do clearly need better mid depth

Seb 10 votes
Skunk 9 votes

Those boys got 0 last year, shows how we have improved

 

[Diehard Saint]

Greater Western Sydney 92
Adelaide 87
Geelong 84
West Coast 83
Western Bulldogs 81
St Kilda 76
Hawthorn 73
Melbourne 71
Collingwood 66
Port Adelaide 64
North Melbourne 63
Richmond 52
Carlton 45
Fremantle 45
Gold Coast 45
Essendon 36
Brisbane Lions 20

6th on the Tally for a team that missed the finals isn't bad, even if we do clearly need better mid depth

I was just wondering about where we were on the table, so thanks for this ( even if you did miss Sydney )
I think that's a great result this year.

 

[crasha301]

Greater Western Sydney 92
Adelaide 87
Geelong 84
West Coast 83
Western Bulldogs 81
St Kilda 76
Hawthorn 73
Melbourne 71
Collingwood 66
Port Adelaide 64
North Melbourne 63
Richmond 52
Carlton 45
Fremantle 45
Gold Coast 45
Essendon 36
Brisbane Lions 20

6th on the Tally for a team that missed the finals isn't bad, even if we do clearly need better mid depth

Only 5 votes behind the dogs is interesting.