Confirmed Bryce Gibbs [traded to Adelaide] - (cont. in Part 2)

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Elite Crow

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Gibbs signed a 5 year deal when he was eligible for Free Agency - Dangerfield was uncontracted and walked. You offered less for Gibbs than you got for Dangerfield, and yet the circumstances dictated that you probably needed to cough up more.

On an open market, Danger is worth far more than what you got, and if your club had the option of giving up that much to retain him - you probably would have because he's worth it.
Circumstances not playing ability, so not really relevant.
 

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slashin_velvet

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Circumstances not playing ability, so not really relevant.
The fact that its been months of the same discussion and you still don't understand that players value in a trade isn't just their ability but the circumstances surrounding their departure means you are helpless. Goodluck with everything.
 

slashin_velvet

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Which makes them good trades as we brought in players we identified as being of a need & all were bargains.
No-one's saying they're bad trades, but that if you're not willing to pay overs for contracted players, then you should stick to recruiting more risky fringe types. Its what our club has been doing with GWS players, so its not a criticism of strategy - more that your club (and by extension, clearly its supporters) need to acknowledge that a players value to a club in a trade is just as much about their individual ability, but also their position/importance to their current list, and their contract status.
 

Elite Crow

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The fact that its been months of the same discussion and you still don't understand that players value in a trade isn't just their ability but the circumstances surrounding their departure means you are helpless. Goodluck with everything.
Its been months and you guys are bumping the same shit.

I understand completely, of course circumstances have an impact and I have stated this previously. But in the end in it still has to come down to playing ability how much you are prepared to pay. If it was Danger for example, we would have given up 2 first rd picks and then some, which is more than what we got because he is easily worth it. Gibbs despite being contracted wasnt worth it.
 

Dc9798

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Gibbs signed a 5 year deal when he was eligible for Free Agency - Dangerfield was uncontracted and walked. You offered less for Gibbs than you got for Dangerfield, and yet the circumstances dictated that you probably needed to cough up more.

On an open market, Danger is worth far more than what you got, and if your club had the option of giving up that much to retain him - you probably would have because he's worth it.
Good point, but still think the Crows offered up enough given the circumstances.
The trade didn't happen, he may request it again at the end of this year, but for now we move on.


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Monkey King

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I'm sure if it was that impressive you would have thrown me some names.
Neither here nor there. You made a claim that was incorrect. Should you wish to revise the club's recent trading history and enlighten yourself of the players involved, I would encourage it. Carlton have been involved in several player trades both in and out in recent seasons.
 

Monkey King

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Good point, but still think the Crows offered up enough given the circumstances.
Had the Crows got Gibbs for pick 15 and change, your club officials and supporters would have been very happy. Carlton's would not have been. That's a fair indication that not enough was offered. As I said previously, your club preferred Gibbs to what you offered and so did Carlton. The only way the trade could be done was if something was offered that the Blues preferred over Gibbs. Which is actually just common sense if you think about it.
 

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Neither here nor there. You made a claim that was incorrect. Should you wish to revise the club's recent trading history and enlighten yourself of the players involved, I would encourage it. Carlton have been involved in several player trades both in and out in recent seasons.
Nah I'll stick with it until proven wrong
 

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Dc9798

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Had the Crows got Gibbs for pick 15 and change, your club officials and supporters would have been very happy. Carlton's would not have been. That's a fair indication that not enough was offered. As I said previously, your club preferred Gibbs to what you offered and so did Carlton. The only way the trade could be done was if something was offered that the Blues preferred over Gibbs. Which is actually just common sense if you think about it.
Carlton preferred firm ridiculous overs, which is not common sense from an Adelaide point of view, hence he's still a Blue.


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Mate the only trades you have done have either been GWS slops or their young kids wanting back to Melbourne who have followed SOS, so you are not really in a position to judge our trading.
We've traded with almost half the teams in the competition over the past 3 years.

You're wrong. Now can you please stop embarrassing yourself?
 

Monkey King

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Carlton preferred firm ridiculous overs, which is not common sense from an Adelaide point of view, hence he's still a Blue.
As I said, you guys would have been very happy to get Gibbs for that price. A good indication it wasn't enough. As for a price that would have got the deal done, well that was never really tested with an improved offer, so we'll never know. But still, the premise is sound; you simply can't expect to acquire what something else has rights over and wants to keep unless you offer them something greater than what they already have.
 
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The comment wasn't about the quality of the trades, but rather the standing of the players when you brought them in.
Surely what is more relevant is how useful the traded player is to the new club, rather than their previous standing.

Ie. Interested in the future not the past when trading... case example Daisy Thomas.
 
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No-one's saying they're bad trades, but that if you're not willing to pay overs for contracted players, then you should stick to recruiting more risky fringe types. Its what our club has been doing with GWS players, so its not a criticism of strategy - more that your club (and by extension, clearly its supporters) need to acknowledge that a players value to a club in a trade is just as much about their individual ability, but also their position/importance to their current list, and their contract status.
Where did we not acknowledge?

You value Gibbs higher than we did. We acknowledged you with thanks but no thanks too much & we move on.

Many of your supporters are not acknowledging that their needs to be an upper limit for the buying club too...
 
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We've traded with almost half the teams in the competition over the past 3 years.

You're wrong. Now can you please stop embarrassing yourself?
SOS hasn't been trading for 3 years.

I doubt SOS would have found any club willing to pay what he was wanting for Gibbs... so it's not like Adelaide were alone in thinking the asking price was a pass.
 

Elite Crow

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We've traded with almost half the teams in the competition over the past 3 years.

You're wrong. Now can you please stop embarrassing yourself?
My initial post was in response to Monkeys claim we should stick with trading in fringe players, so unless one of you can point out the quality players you've traded in from other clubs I can keep going.

You grabbed our slops FFS and they made the top 10 of your best and fairest.

So I'll ask again, who were the quality players that you've traded in? Monkey King care to have a crack? Or are you going to keep ducking?
 

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Many of your supporters are not acknowledging that their needs to be an upper limit for the buying club too...
Of course there's an upper limit as a buying club - and where you don't feel a player is worth it, you don't come out and announce a deal on day 1 of trade period.

I think you'll find many carlton supporters in the weeks before trading period noting gibbs as a commodity we would be willing to trade for a first and second round pick. It wasn't until your buffoon of a list manager announced to the world their intentions, that we had to ask for more because you stifled other deals we had already lined up.

I maintain - Reid shuts his mouth when talking to the public and Gibbs would be at a different club right now (for less than 2 first round draft picks).
 

slashin_velvet

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Surely what is more relevant is how useful the traded player is to the new club, rather than their previous standing.

Ie. Interested in the future not the past when trading... case example Daisy Thomas.
Its simply foolish to target a player (which from all media accounts its clear you had been propositioning Gibbs for quite some time, even though he only decided closer to trade period) when you don't consider what its going to take to get a deal done from all angles. If you're not willing to give up what you think it will take to pry him out, then don't target a contracted player - uncontracted is a different story.

Look at it from another angle - as a Carlton supporter - I'd love a forward like Hogan. But as a club wanting to bring a contracted player in - I need to assess whether or not that club will let the player go as a trade must be facilitated. Melbourne wont let him go for a single first rounder - not even if it was pick 1. They probably wouldn't take 2 first round picks - he's potentially a once in a generation player. So it would be unwise for me to target him while he's contracted - and even if I have a whisper in his ear - I shouldn't announce to the public that he;s flagged intentions to come to carlton if I cant offer an incredibly good deal to Melbourne.
 

Monkey King

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My initial post was in response to Monkeys claim we should stick with trading in fringe players ...
My comment was that the Crows should stick to targeting uncontracted fringe players, which was then revised to "uncontracted players not strictly required by their clubs", given it seems that's about where their price point is at. It's a solid assessment too; even a Crows poster pretty much agreed with it. Had Gibbs been uncontracted, I dare say the Crows offer would have been closer to getting the trade over the line.

What you responded with was some factually incorrect drivel about Carlton not being involved in any trades except for GWS players. This is either right or wrong. And it was wrong. Whether any player traded in made the All Australian squad or didn't play a single game is of no relevance. Now you ask others to tell you who Carlton traded in, something I'd suggest you should have had a handle on before you posted your drivel.
 
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Its simply foolish to target a player (which from all media accounts its clear you had been propositioning Gibbs for quite some time, even though he only decided closer to trade period) when you don't consider what its going to take to get a deal done from all angles. If you're not willing to give up what you think it will take to pry him out, then don't target a contracted player - uncontracted is a different story.

Look at it from another angle - as a Carlton supporter - I'd love a forward like Hogan. But as a club wanting to bring a contracted player in - I need to assess whether or not that club will let the player go as a trade must be facilitated. Melbourne wont let him go for a single first rounder - not even if it was pick 1. They probably wouldn't take 2 first round picks - he's potentially a once in a generation player. So it would be unwise for me to target him while he's contracted - and even if I have a whisper in his ear - I shouldn't announce to the public that he;s flagged intentions to come to carlton if I cant offer an incredibly good deal to Melbourne.
This reply had nothing to do with my quote???
 

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My comment was that the Crows should stick to targeting uncontracted fringe players, which was then revised to "uncontracted players not strictly required by their clubs", given it seems that's about where their price point is at. It's a solid assessment too; even a Crows poster pretty much agreed with it. Had Gibbs been uncontracted, I dare say the Crows offer would have been closer to getting the trade over the line.
If Gibbs was uncontracted, no doubt the deal would have got over the line. There were only two options for him - Adelaide (his preferred option) or Carlton, which meant had he gone to the PSD, he would be a Crow. Nonetheless, a deal would have been done.

But, that wasn't the case, and we all move on to other things. I'm personally hoping we can go after an uncontracted Rockliff this year, but that's only my hope.
 
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Of course there's an upper limit as a buying club - and where you don't feel a player is worth it, you don't come out and announce a deal on day 1 of trade period.

I think you'll find many carlton supporters in the weeks before trading period noting gibbs as a commodity we would be willing to trade for a first and second round pick. It wasn't until your buffoon of a list manager announced to the world their intentions, that we had to ask for more because you stifled other deals we had already lined up.

I maintain - Reid shuts his mouth when talking to the public and Gibbs would be at a different club right now (for less than 2 first round draft picks).
If the reason you didn't trade Gibbs was because you were upset by what Reid said, then that is poor business practice.

Apparently this is more important than giving a player his wish to return home when he has given good service.

Players are going to think twice about signing long term deals with Carlton if they show no compassion... Which of course is your right, but may cost you in the future.
 
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