Confirmed Bryce Gibbs [traded to Adelaide] - (cont. in Part 2)

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THE_GUN

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Disingenuous or ignorant? Already been told that we have 6 GWS players currently on our list. How much would 50% be?

Also, can you put your views forth on the prospects of Marchbank, Pickett, Plowman and Kennedy so we can check back later for reference? Not all of these guys have been offcuts.

Not sure why it matters where we get the players from either, as long as they help us progress and fit our age profile.
Very selective posting
You have 6 gws player currently and will get 2 more and how many others from other teams is currently on your list ? Not to mentioned the players that have failed like CJ etc
Townsend and Miles worked alright for you lot, the boys we take are actually wanted by the Giants and not literal rejects. If we got in Ellis or Bolton for example they'd be considered strong talent and good acquisitions, but as soon as they come from the Giants any ex first rounder is a dud.

Think you'd be the last club too talk about "offcuts", flags can be built in many different ways as you have shown.
Both Townsend and Miles are just depth players and Miles will almost certainly be gone , Townsend is just a stop gap atm until Callum Moore replaces him
I don't understand how you could actually believe what you just said is true.

The fact you are referring to Kennedy and Smith as 'rejects and off cuts' shows your lack of knowledge.
Smith couldnt replace a crippled deledio and a Stevie J in a wheel chair in a prelim final , Bam Bam is a young player so will need time but the GWS supporters who would know more about him dont seem too fussed and believe that he will be just a Vanilla player and hasnt been offered a contract
Adelaide have 3 Ex Carlton players, and Richmond had 3 as well. Betts, Jacobs, Menzel, Hampson, Grigg and Yarran before he finished. But I suppose you don’t class them as offcutts as they are in your team. Next you will be saying Doc is no good as he was Brisbane’s offcut
Whilst Grigg has been Excellent Yarran is a total loss as well as Hampson - So that would explain my views as to Why Not rather the alternative
 
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Very selective posting
You have 6 gws player currently and will get 2 more and how many others from other teams is currently on your list ? Not to mentioned the players that have failed like CJ etc
Only one GWS player we targeted has been delisted and that was pre-rebuild with a different list manager.

We have 6 with Palmer likely to depart to make it 5. Kennedy and Smith will then make it 7. 5 or 6 will be regular best 22.
 
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Both Townsend and Miles are just depth players and Miles will almost certainly be gone , Townsend is just a stop gap atm until Callum Moore replaces him
The 5 we plan to keep long term are all better than Townsend and Miles. Townsend was crucial to your last 6 games and part of a flag side, Miles was hailed as a huge win and your supporters are expecting some good compensation for him should he leave.

There is no reason why Marchbank, Kennedy, Smith, Plowman and Pickett can't be valuable to a successful side, the first 3 of which have potential to be crucial elements to any future push we have.
 

THE_GUN

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Only one GWS player we targeted has been delisted and that was pre-rebuild with a different list manager.

We have 6 with Palmer likely to depart to make it 5. Kennedy and Smith will then make it 7. 5 or 6 will be regular best 22.
Again selective posting about GWS players only

How many of your players are recycled player on your list ?
Again you are presuming that 6 will be regulars there are no guarantee's they will be regular players in a "top" Team
You can have them be regular players if you dont have quality to replace them with if they are not upto the level required to make you a top 4 team then its useless.

Might be an idea to have a look through the lists of teams that have won the last 2 flags and see how its come about rather than automatically presume that every player Carlton take from GWS are going to be great players.

When Gws entered the comp and sos was given unlimited picks for the next few years and all the players he could take from other clubs and they started their build of this super club the bulldogs and Tigers were on their knee's but have both won flags whilst the list that SOS built is struggling to get there and turfing players that SOS recruited.

These players are not bad but carlton need to look at other avenue's apart from just players that the 3rd or 4th placed team are happy to let go and get draft picks for them to continue the churn.

None of the players that have been let go to Carlton are players that GWS were desperate to keep, Sure some perhaps they may have liked to keep but were not desperate like they way they were with Kelly,Treloar,Patton,Cameron,Shiel etc

What i mean by getting their off cuts is not to mean they are rubbish but will just be average to good but hardly enough to win a flag as these players will be the ones that GWS wont let go.

If you cant see an issue with being too gws focused then with recruiting then that in itself is an issue , Best you will be is competitive but not successful in getting to the top
 

pinot

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Love the way Carlton are going about building a list with GWS reserves players and expecting to win finals

Adelaide & Richmond both comprehensively beat the Giants in both finals and Kennedy & Smith couldnt make their senior's

Not all 1st rounders become gun players and i would say atleast 50% fail

Adelaide has done a great job building and Maintaining their level over the years , Bulldogs have built their own from home grown and Richmond have 6 role players but the main core is home grown.

If 50% of your list comes from other teams off cuts then you are never going to become a top 4 team, Sure you will improve but only to get into the 8 but never to go any further.

Off cuts are off cuts for a reason , Carlton should be concentrating on drafting kids to play their way - Too many from 1 place usually means your getting their rejects and how can you beat them with their off cuts.
Richmond has been properly rebuilding since 2003
Carlton has been properly rebuilding since 2015

All the players Carlton are getting from Giants to be starting 22 are under 22 - Plowman, Marchbank, Pickett, Kennedy - the remainder are either back up players or salary cap dumps that will not be on the list next three years.

Bolton and SOS started from ground Zero - we need midfield depth and that is what we are going to do this year.
 

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Again selective posting about GWS players only
Because you keep focusing on them.

How many of your players are recycled player on your list ?
Presently ... 13. It's not outlandish.

Again you are presuming that 6 will be regulars there are no guarantee's they will be regular players in a "top" Team
You can have them be regular players if you dont have quality to replace them with if they are not upto the level required to make you a top 4 team then its useless.

Might be an idea to have a look through the lists of teams that have won the last 2 flags and see how its come about rather than automatically presume that every player Carlton take from GWS are going to be great players.
Oh here we go. Win a flag that even the diehards didn't see coming and suddenly that's the way to build a side. Look at how we have also gone to the draft and how many games those players are getting. Look at our age profile and identify the gaps.

These players are not bad but carlton need to look at other avenue's apart from just players that the 3rd or 4th placed team are happy to let go and get draft picks for them to continue the churn.

None of the players that have been let go to Carlton are players that GWS were desperate to keep, Sure some perhaps they may have liked to keep but were not desperate like they way they were with Kelly,Treloar,Patton,Cameron,Shiel etc

What i mean by getting their off cuts is not to mean they are rubbish but will just be average to good but hardly enough to win a flag as these players will be the ones that GWS wont let go.

If you cant see an issue with being too gws focused then with recruiting then that in itself is an issue , Best you will be is competitive but not successful in getting to the top
We do look at other avenues but GWS is an area where we have been getting players on the cheap, not because they are cheap but because we have helped GWS manage their cap.

You also can't predict that these players will be average to good based on where they came from. Docherty was in a similar position to them and we paid a late second for him. Surely his success isn't because he came from Brisbane?

We are growing our midfield strategically by addressing areas of need and supporting existing players who will develop faster in a functioning set up.

We are going to the draft with #3 at this stage. We have a heap of 19 and 20 year olds already.

Why would a second rounder here or there halt our progress? Also which players from which teams should we be targeting and how much would they cost?
 

footyfan78

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Combine scully and kennedy and they possibly slide towards Gibbs being an acceptable loss, we still need to improve our midfield rather then go backwards this off season.
I am happy to get Kennedy , but , unlike Gibbs I still do not know what I am getting.
Scully is an ok player but not the style of player we crying out for.
Not sure why you even looking for acceptable losses thinking.

I'm into pro-active trading.
We only trade Gibbs, if he is happy to get traded and it is a definite gain for us.

I am way more into wanting Devon Smith than Kennedy. I know what I am getting with Smith once he is fit.
Still very unsure if Kennedy is a fringe player or something more.

Anyway I am after getting Dev Smith and Kennedy and to join Gibbs at Carlton.
There would have to be something really special offered to let Gibbs out of a contract early.

Adelaide offered nothing exciting last year so not sure why you would expect they get their shit together this year with same people in charge.
If a 3 way trade happened that would be more interesting. Dev Smith is the man I want.
Not sure where the Scully talk has come from.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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Love the way Carlton are going about building a list with GWS reserves players and expecting to win finals

Adelaide & Richmond both comprehensively beat the Giants in both finals and Kennedy & Smith couldnt make their senior's

Not all 1st rounders become gun players and i would say atleast 50% fail

Adelaide has done a great job building and Maintaining their level over the years , Bulldogs have built their own from home grown and Richmond have 6 role players but the main core is home grown.

If 50% of your list comes from other teams off cuts then you are never going to become a top 4 team, Sure you will improve but only to get into the 8 but never to go any further.

Off cuts are off cuts for a reason , Carlton should be concentrating on drafting kids to play their way - Too many from 1 place usually means your getting their rejects and how can you beat them with their off cuts.
Prestia, Grigg, Townsend, Caddy, Lambert (Carlton VFL player), Nankervis. Are these the 6 that you consider 'role players'?
Our only true targets from GWS under the Bolton/SOS regime have been Plowman, Marchbank, Pickett and now Kennedy. All will be best 22.
In that time we've drafted Silvagni, SPS, McKay, Weitering, Fisher, Macreadie, Cunningham, Polson, Curnow, Williamson and Kerr. Seven of those featured heavily this year and now have around 170 games between them, with Kerr yet to debut and McKay only having 2 games to his name. The only other GWS player on our list that featured heavily when fit, was Lamb with 11 games. He was pretty serviceable, but isn't considered by anyone to be a long term player and was never a targeted player anyway.

Winning a flag doesn't make you an expert all of a sudden.
 
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Smith is 10x the player kennedy is... not sure why of all 3 you wouldnt want him.
He'd be my first pick.
Agreed. I think it's the injury issue that could become recurring that's holding some off. He's also 4 years older than Kennedy who fits our age profile and fills a bigger need.

I think both can improve us significantly but Smith is the best of them and most exciting.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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Love the way Carlton are going about building a list with GWS reserves players... Too many from 1 place usually means your getting their rejects...
Again selective posting about GWS players only
GWS 'rejects' were the crux of your post. I wonder why we are talking about them? :rolleyes:
 
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