Roast Bryce Gibbs

[Johnny Rutten]

Bryce did finish 4th in our B&F last year. So the trade hasn't been a complete disaster. It's just been a disaster.

Seriously, though, I'm still very hopeful Gibbs will find his form, get back in the team, and be breathing fire come finals time.

 

[Mismatched]

I was trying to track exactly what the deal for Gibbs was ... as I was sick of hearing the "2 first round picks" rubbish.

Carlton received

• Pick 10 (Lochie O'Brien)
• Pick 16 (ended up at Bulldogs - Ed Richards : Carlton got Matthew Kennedy and Tom De Koning)
• Crows' 2018 second-round pick (31 - ended up at Melbourne, James Jordon : Carlton got ???)
• Pick 73 (Angus Schumacher)

Adelaide received

• Gibbs
• Carlton's 2018 second-round pick (19 - we traded back to them)
• Carlton's 2018 third-round pick (37 - ended up at Sydney, Justin McInerney: Adelaide got ???)
• Pick 77 (not used)

Can someone fill in the blanks?

Using the daft Points Calculator that has Bryce costing us Pick 7.

Actually we traded Carlton’s 2018 second(initially 19, eventually pick 24 - Ian Hill) and our 2019 5th to GWS for Carlton’s 2019 second and pick 28(Will Hamill) in the 2018 draft. A decent trade for us.

The pick we traded with Carlton for their 2019 1st was the Jake Lever Pick from Melbourne, it started as pick 16, but became pick 19(Liam Stocker) with academy picks.

 

[hugecannon]

I swap him directly with Douglas as the HF/mid for a few weeks and see if his form improves, he’s usually very good at spotting up leading players in our forward 50 which has been a massive issue for us over the years.

 

[Vhaluus]

Technically yes, but logically it isn't if you view pick 21 in a strong draft as the same (if not better) then pick 16 (would have been pick 17 if not for the GWS draft sanction) in a weak draft.
That's why we did the trade as we had a very low 1st rounder in a weak draft and took the gamble that Carlton will finish bottom 2 in a strong draft (preferably last which they did), and we did get lucky as there were only 2 FA compensation pick that affected it in Lynch and Lycett.
I've had this debate already with you guys here and over there with the Carlton guys and you and them still don't get it.

If everyone sees things one way and you see it another two things are possible:
1)you are a genius who has insight far above literally everyone else
2)you are wrong

which is more likely?

 

[Vhaluus]

Bryce did finish 4th in our B&F last year. So the trade hasn't been a complete disaster. It's just been a disaster.

Seriously, though, I'm still very hopeful Gibbs will find his form, get back in the team, and be breathing fire come finals time.

Gibbs is good at being an ok player in a shit team who doesn't make the 8.

where he struggles is contributing in a quality side.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

I dont remember the details, but I do know Goodwin was betting on AFL outcomes. Like he would have placed bets on multis etc. Like certain teams to win over the weekend etc.

What saved him was that he wasnt betting on Crows games.

Of all the players stung, Goodwin got the harshest punishment. And his crimes the least. Melbourne players were betting on thier own games, but Goodwin was made an example of. But all that good stuff he was shooting up at Essendon, meant he never learnt his lesson..

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Spot on. We knew whatever there was to know about Bryce Gibbs, and decided to trade for him.

I hope it wasn't a situation of Reid putting a mate above the club, or his heart ruling his head?

It looks like it was a mercy trade. Saving a favourite sons son from a dangerous culture, that was threatening to ruin him and his family.

Sacrificed the clubs future for a Glenelg legend. For his son, who should of been picked up under father son, but cause Bryce was so good, the afl changed the rules, so he would go to Carlton.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

If Gibbs plays for us again, we should give him a rousing reception when he gets the ball, show support of him. Rally behind him and his family.

 

[Vhaluus]

If Gibbs plays for us again, we should give him a rousing reception when he gets the ball, show support of him. Rally behind him and his family.

If Gibbs plays for us again he should get his head out his ass and play well.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

If Gibbs plays for us again he should get his head out his ass and play well.

If you had debts like its reported he has, you would hide your head up your arse too.

 

[hey shorty]

If Gibbs plays for us again he should get his head out his ass and play well.

Like last week??

 

[Vhaluus]

If you had debts like its reported he has, you would hide your head up your arse too.

He is a grown assed man who has made more in the first decade of his career than most people in this country will make in their lifetime.


I'll cry tears for poor Bryce and his debts.

 

[Stiffy_18]

The rumour wasnt a rumour it was a fact.

If you read a few of the articles in the Melbourne newspapers 4 years ago, they talked about how Carlton players openly had established a betting team.

This was potentially a failure by our Club to not have investigated it further and not taken into consideration if a player is a heavy gambler or not.

Its not a unique issue either. Its a common problem amongst well paid athletes that are paid well, not just the AFL.

EVERY AFL club has betting teams, ours included.

The issue here is that you get people who can’t understand when enough is enough and have an issue of going deeper and deeper into gambling. Gambling teams at football clubs is nothing new.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Does it mean anything, that Jenkins has been outspoken about gambling and the afl pushing it on us?

Is this the player coach rift? The rift that saw us lose to West Coast because Jenkins wasn't selected for reasons other than form.

 

[ABAB]

If everyone sees things one way and you see it another two things are possible:
1)you are a genius who has insight far above literally everyone else
2)you are wrong

which is more likely?

Like I said, you need to look at the overall trade more closely, even Kane Cornes mentioned it to The Sunday Footy Show..."You gave away pick 10 and 16 and you got a pick back".

 

[Vhaluus]

Like I said, you need to look at the overall trade more closely, even Kane Cornes mentioned it to The Sunday Footy Show..."You gave away pick 10 and 16 and you got a pick back".

And you're intentionally ignoring the extra pick on top of 10 and 16 that went the other way.

You have to look at the WHOLE trade, you can't keep pretending parts of it weren't there.

If Kane Cornes is your proof you're in a load of trouble.

 

[ABAB]

And you're intentionally ignoring the extra pick on top of 10 and 16 that went the other way.

You have to look at the WHOLE trade, you can't keep pretending parts of it weren't there.

If Kane Cornes is your proof you're in a load of trouble.

Like I said with pick 28 to them and pick 40 back to us, there is virtually no difference in it. It's pick 21 back to us in a strong draft which is the pick we got back he was talking about (for that pick 16 we gave them in a weak draft), what pick would you have wanted? I would want pick 21.

And that pick 21 was the one we trade to GWS for a 4 pick downgrade and Carlton's pick 19/20 this year.

 

[douglyzia]

If Gibbs plays for us again, we should give him a rousing reception when he gets the ball, show support of him. Rally behind him and his family.

But nothing's been officially confirmed.

 

[Vhaluus]

Like I said with pick 28 to them and pick 40 back to us, there is virtually no difference in it. It's pick 21 back to us in a strong draft which is the pick we got back he was talking about (for that pick 16 we gave them in a weak draft), what pick would you have wanted? I would want pick 21.

Let's just be clear on the FULL deal rather than you trying to constantly only look at small parts of it in order to obfuscate the value

Carlton received:
Picks 10, 16, 73 and a future 2nd round pick
Crows recieved:
Gibbs, 77, future 2nd, future 3rd

Now I think we can both safely agree that the difference between 77 and 73 is negligible so we'll call that even?

that still leaves 2x 1st round, 1x 2nd round for Gibbs, 1x2nd 1x3rd

Are their picks an upgrade on ours in the same round? yes

does that upgrade in the round magically cancel out a 1st round pick? no

Take Gibbs and pick 10 out of the equation and then look at the trade. No club in its right mind would make that trade which means it's not all cancelling out like you claim.

 

[ABAB]

Let's just be clear on the FULL deal rather than you trying to constantly only look at small parts of it in order to obfuscate the value

Carlton received:
Picks 10, 16, 73 and a future 2nd round pick
Crows recieved:
Gibbs, 77, future 2nd, future 3rd

Now I think we can both safely agree that the difference between 77 and 73 is negligible so we'll call that even?

that still leaves 2x 1st round, 1x 2nd round for Gibbs, 1x2nd 1x3rd

Are their picks an upgrade on ours in the same round? yes

does that upgrade in the round magically cancel out a 1st round pick? no

Take Gibbs and pick 10 out of the equation and then look at the trade. No club in its right mind would make that trade which means it's not all cancelling out like you claim.

That's why I've always said you need to look at the trade closely and don't just use the generic future 2nd round pick in your example.
That future 2nd round pick from Carlton can be virtually consider a 1st rounder (some could say it's even better than the pick 16 we gave them given the difference in the quality of the draft).
I'll ask you again, would you prefer pick 21 in a very strong draft or pick 16 in a weak draft (just going by the pick number and quality of the draft), I will take pick 21 any-day.
At worst they DO cancel each other out so Gibbs WAS trade for pick 10 in a weak draft.

 

[Vhaluus]

That's why I've always said you need to look at the trade closely and don't just use the generic future 2nd round pick in your example.
That future 2nd round pick from Carlton can be virtually consider a 1st rounder (some could say it's even better than the pick 16 we gave them given the difference in the quality of the draft).
I'll ask you again, would you prefer pick 21 in a very strong draft or pick 16 in a weak draft (just going by the pick number and quality of the draft), I will take pick 21 any-day.
At worst they DO cancel each other out so Gibbs WAS trade for pick 10 in a weak draft.

Ok so if they cancel out let's look at that, you tell me if you would do this trade from the Crows perspective?

Crows in:
Carlton future 2nd, Carlton future 3rd, 77
crows out:
16, Crows future 2nd, 73

You wouldn't do that trade in isolation, no-one would

 

[ABAB]

Ok so if they cancel out let's look at that, you tell me if you would do this trade from the Crows perspective?

Crows in:
Carlton future 2nd, Carlton future 3rd, 77
crows out: 16, Crows future 2nd, 73

I never said pick 10 in a weak draft is cancel out by Gibbs since I rate him a lot higher than that (around pick 7-8 in a weak draft) so you can't look at these trade in isolation. But I would (just) do pick 21 (in a strong draft), pick 40, pick 77 for Pick 16 (in a weak draft), pick 28 and pick 73...just.

 

[Mego Red]

If everyone sees things one way and you see it another two things are possible:
1)you are a genius who has insight far above literally everyone else
2)you are wrong

which is more likely?

Obviously, the people who aren't looking at details think it was two firsts. A reasonably high number of folk are that simplistic, I guess.

If I buy something worth $120 with two hundred dollar bills, it hasn't cost me $200.

Gibbs cost 10, plus we moved from 16 to 19 and twenty odd to thirty odd.

Best, we kept that 19 in a better draft and still had an asset to do things with. It's been a fantastic bonus and shows how smart Reid is.

 

[GROTTO]

EVERY AFL club has betting teams, ours included.

The issue here is that you get people who can’t understand when enough is enough and have an issue of going deeper and deeper into gambling. Gambling teams at football clubs is nothing new.

I think you missed the point here, gambling is basically an issue in this case in particular here because the player has lost a lot of money. If the player had won or is winning a lot of money, the gambling wouldnt be at all concern, in fact some would be envious and ironically praised.

If you know what you are doing, by that I mean for starters understanding applied mathematics, odds, probability, stakes etc etc there are people that make a profitable outcome from betting as they understand how to identify an edge which is when they bet and exploit it to their advantage.

The issue for the majority of players is that they dont. Which is why eventually most players that gamble for a long enough period of time, end up in debt.

 

[ABAB]

Obviously, the people who aren't looking at details think it was two firsts. A reasonably high number of folk are that simplistic, I guess.

If I buy something worth $120 with two hundred dollar bills, it hasn't cost me $200.

Gibbs cost 10, plus we moved from 16 to 19 and twenty odd to thirty odd.

Best, we kept that 19 in a better draft and still had an asset to do things with. It's been a fantastic bonus and shows how smart Reid is.

Reid took the risk that Carlton would have finish bottom 2, even better if it was bottom and it worked out that way so thanks Carlton....again.
And most supporters see it that the club traded 2 1st rounder, but you need to look at the trade more closely and a lot of supporters didn't.