Roast Bryce Gibbs

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kristof

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2003
17,307
17,027
Brisbane
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Soft spot for Brisbane
I am wrong? A downgrade of 5 picks from 16 and 12 picks from 28, how can you consider those downgrades as worth another 1st rounder is beyond me. If that 5 picks downgrade was from a top 10 pick, then I can understand this but not from pick 16 or if it was a 10 picks difference from 16.
And that's despite the fact that anyone would prefer to have pick 21 last year compared to pick 16 in 2017.
Deledio hasn't been as durable as Gibbs all his career.
You are starting to get into Sanders and marty36's level here.
Good, sensible post.
 

jumboprince

FLACCID MEMBER
Oct 16, 2011
9,973
21,826
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Yahl Cricket Club
Apologies, I thought I'll also post the numbers for Vhaluus to digest the evidence so s/he can finally stop incorrectly saying it was 2 1st rounders.....along with Carlton supporters like Dadda Dave and RobR.

All good just didn't want you ever thinking that I agreed with whatshisname o something
 

ABAB

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2018
1,968
1,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
All good just didn't want you ever thinking that I agreed with whatshisname o something
I thought the Carlton supporters were clueless when I started the debate with them over there on their thread...clearly we also have some here. I understand Rucci continues to bang on it was 2 1st rounders but from our own supporters who you would think would have looked at the trade more closely, it's has been very difficult to tell them otherwise, I bet you they will continue to argue with me even after I provided those draft points.
 

Dudersaurus

Senior List
Oct 7, 2018
235
331
AFL Club
Adelaide
In the history of Crows trade mistakes they rank as follows:
1)Wayne Carey
2)Bryce Gibbs
3)Richard Tambling
I like the 2000 trades as a package:

Pick 12 (Shaun Burgoyne) for Matthew Bode.

And

Pick 23 (Drew Petrie) for Evan Hewitt.

Obviously no guarantee we would have picked those players, but that's a fair eff up of a trade season.
 

ABAB

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2018
1,968
1,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
So I decided to crunch some numbers on good old Bryce, particularly in relation to people lauding his performance last year and using the B&F to back up their position

Can I point out he only finished 9 points above Hugh Greenwood who cost us nothing vs 2 first round draft picks.

He was 13 votes behind Jenkins who cost us pick 31.

He was 73 votes behind Rory Laird who cost us pick 5 in the rookie draft.

He was only 10 votes above Tom Doedee who only cost us pick 17 and had only played 20 games of AFL football compared to Gibbs playing over 250. To Repeat, Doedee in his first ever year of playing at AFL level only got 10 less votes than Bryce 'The premiership difference' Gibbs. But it gets worse for old Gibbs, Because he played 2 more games than Doedee so if you prorata the performance Gibbs actually ended up with 3 votes LESS than Doedee.

The amount we paid for him was utterly disproportionate to the output we got from him, even last year in what was arguably one of his best ever years of football in his career that is rapidly coming to an end.

In the history of Crows trade mistakes they rank as follows:
1)Wayne Carey
2)Bryce Gibbs
3)Richard Tambling
Why don't you crunch the draft point numbers from the downgrade of the picks, it will tell you we only traded pick 10 and an early 3rd rounder for Gibbs and not the 2 1st rounders you keep on telling us so that alone should get Gibbs off that top 3 list, shouldn't it?
And those players didn't cost us much as we had to develop them.
 
Last edited:

jumboprince

FLACCID MEMBER
Oct 16, 2011
9,973
21,826
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Yahl Cricket Club
I like the 2000 trades as a package:

Pick 12 (Shaun Burgoyne) for Matthew Bode.

And

Pick 23 (Drew Petrie) for Evan Hewitt.

Obviously no guarantee we would have picked those players, but that's a fair eff up of a trade season.
Every club was guilty of shocking decisions trading picks back in the late nineties early 2000s, we certainly had our share. Back then it was less of a specialist department and more the coach and a couple of his mates getting on the piss and trying to go the quick fix route
 

jumboprince

FLACCID MEMBER
Oct 16, 2011
9,973
21,826
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Yahl Cricket Club
I thought the Carlton supporters were clueless when I started the debate with them over there on their thread...clearly we also have some here. I understand Rucci continues to bang on it was 2 1st rounders but from our own supporters who you would think would have looked at the trade more closely, it's has been very difficult to tell them otherwise, I bet you they will continue to argue with me even after I provided those draft points.
You can't fix stupid
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
10,768
11,650
AFL Club
Adelaide
Why don't you crunch the draft point numbers from the downgrade of the picks, it will tell you we only traded pick 10 and an early 3rd rounder for Gibbs and not the 2 1st rounders you keep on telling us so that alone should get Gibbs off that top 3 list, shouldn't it?
And those players didn't cost us much as we had to develop them.
Because the point system is deliberately inaccurate to assist clubs in recruiting father/son picks.

Its why clubs were exploiting it by trading one or two high draft picks for a handful of dreg picks that were somehow worth more points.

higher draft picks aren't rated as highly in the points system as clubs rate them when trading.

Go look at any pure pick swaps and you'll see the points values tend to be very lopsided for this reason.
 

Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
10,768
11,650
AFL Club
Adelaide
He said runs eight deep.

You changed it to running eight inside mids.

Read people's posts properly before you post.
Oh really? you're going to go reading comprehension are you?

I posted

really? which one of our core inside mids does he replace? CEY, MCroch, BCrouch or Sloane?
to which he replied

Considering most elite AFL midfields run 8 deep these days, I’ll leave it at that as I’m sure you will find something wrong with my selection.
So who needs to read people's posts properly before they post? Looks like you Kristof
 

Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
10,768
11,650
AFL Club
Adelaide
Deledio was cooked.

Was gave up ten and some marginal pick downgrades to get Gibbs. That's very similar to Deledio, who's barely played.
Ok lets entertain this ******** to put it to bed once and for all.

A few of you are claiming that Gibbs was the equivilent of the Brett Deledio trade. Which was the giants future 1st and 3rd rounders. So luckily it's quite easy for us to do this as a hypotehtical.

Actual trade:
Crows: Pick 10, Pick 16, Pick 73, 2018 2nd rounder
Carlton: Gibbs, 77, 2018 2nd, 2018 3rd round

Ok first step lets remove Gibbs from one side and pick 16 from the other side, since pick 16 is closer to what GWS paid than Pick 10 is.

Crows: Pick 10, Pick 73, 2018 2nd rounder
Carlton, Pick 77, 2018 2nd, 2018 3rd

So this leaves us with a remainder value that Crows have to pay of a 3rd rounder, there's no super easy way to do this so lets just say Carlton give us back 1 less 3rd rounder instead, should be reasonable given Carltons 3rd is worth more than our or GWS 3rd is. So if anything this should imbalance the trade in the Crows favor rather than Carltons.

Crows: Pick 10, Pick 73, 2018 2nd rounder
Carlton: pick 77, 2018 2nd.


So, now that we have removed Gibbs in one direction and a 1st and 3rd rounder back in the other direction, do you think anyone in their right mind would entertain this trade?
 

hugecannon

Club Legend
Aug 14, 2007
1,093
704
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
North Adelaide
I like the 2000 trades as a package:

Pick 12 (Shaun Burgoyne) for Matthew Bode.

And

Pick 23 (Drew Petrie) for Evan Hewitt.

Obviously no guarantee we would have picked those players, but that's a fair eff up of a trade season.
Don’t forget using pick 7 on Laurence Angwin.

Imagine if we’d taken:-

7 - Burgoyne
12 - S Thompson
23 - Petrie
 

ABAB

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2018
1,968
1,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
Because the point system is deliberately inaccurate to assist clubs in recruiting father/son picks.

Its why clubs were exploiting it by trading one or two high draft picks for a handful of dreg picks that were somehow worth more points.

higher draft picks aren't rated as highly in the points system as clubs rate them when trading.

Go look at any pure pick swaps and you'll see the points values tend to be very lopsided for this reason.
That's why I said even using the convoluted draft points it was only pick 10 and an early 3rd rounder. And as you said, this draft point doesn't take into account that pick 21 in last year's strong draft is way better than pick 16 in a weak 2017 draft so really we ONLY traded pick 10 and 12 picks difference from pick 28 (which is probably worth a 4th rounder) for Gibbs, that is all, so can you stop saying it's was 2 1st rounders because it wasn't.
Give credit to our recruiting team where they deserve it will you.
 

ABAB

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2018
1,968
1,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
Ok lets entertain this ******** to put it to bed once and for all.

A few of you are claiming that Gibbs was the equivilent of the Brett Deledio trade. Which was the giants future 1st and 3rd rounders. So luckily it's quite easy for us to do this as a hypotehtical.

Actual trade:
Crows: Pick 10, Pick 16, Pick 73, 2018 2nd rounder
Carlton: Gibbs, 77, 2018 2nd, 2018 3rd round

Ok first step lets remove Gibbs from one side and pick 16 from the other side, since pick 16 is closer to what GWS paid than Pick 10 is.

Crows: Pick 10, Pick 73, 2018 2nd rounder
Carlton, Pick 77, 2018 2nd, 2018 3rd

So this leaves us with a remainder value that Crows have to pay of a 3rd rounder, there's no super easy way to do this so lets just say Carlton give us back 1 less 3rd rounder instead, should be reasonable given Carltons 3rd is worth more than our or GWS 3rd is. So if anything this should imbalance the trade in the Crows favor rather than Carltons.

Crows: Pick 10, Pick 73, 2018 2nd rounder
Carlton: pick 77, 2018 2nd.


So, now that we have removed Gibbs in one direction and a 1st and 3rd rounder back in the other direction, do you think anyone in their right mind would entertain this trade?
What picks did GWS give for Deledio in the end, wasn't it pick 14 2017 + late 3rd rounder 2017 compared to Gibb's pick 10 2017 + early 3rd rounder 2018, so it's slightly higher for Gibbs but relatively equivalent.
 

Vhaluus

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2016
10,768
11,650
AFL Club
Adelaide
What picks did GWS give for Deledio in the end, wasn't it pick 14 2017 + late 3rd rounder 2017 compared to Gibb's pick 10 2017 + early 3rd rounder 2018, so it's slightly higher for Gibbs but relatively equivalent.
I just laid out exactly what it was and you still go and outright lie in response
 

ABAB

Club Legend
Apr 3, 2018
1,968
1,052
AFL Club
Adelaide
I just laid out exactly what it was and you still go and outright lie in response
Where's the lie? Like I said both trade looks similar in terms of picks as I laid out exactly what it was. I must admit your "analysis" was very confusing, removing this pick here, adding that pick there, you just need to compared the picks like I did taking into account the downgrades of picks included in the Gibbs trade.

Pick 14 2017 + late 3rd rounder 2017 compared to pick 10 2017 + early 3rd rounder 2018.
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
25,933
34,071
AFL Club
Adelaide
It’s hard to know where every other club rated him, but certainly I doubt highly that he was 6 on any other list. The only certainty is that he wasn’t the best available player on anybody bar Carlton’s list when they selected in the first round.
It’s been widely reported in the Hun recently, when discussing the trade, how Carlton’s valuation was unique
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
25,933
34,071
AFL Club
Adelaide
You're right, it seems that way.

But i recall everyone getting stuck into Adelaide for 'blowing' a first round pick on Doedee (who the **** is Doedee??) and that's worked out to be a pretty inspired pick.

Too early to tell with Stocker, SOS might have stuffed up with his rankings, or maybe not.
That’s fair

Because no one else rated him that highly doesn’t mean the majority will turn out to be right

It does put you under the microscope though
 

Elite Crow

Premium Platinum
Mar 21, 2008
49,857
65,641
adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
That's why I said even using the convoluted draft points it was only pick 10 and an early 3rd rounder. And as you said, this draft point doesn't take into account that pick 21 in last year's strong draft is way better than pick 16 in a weak 2017 draft so really we ONLY traded pick 10 and 12 picks difference from pick 28 (which is probably worth a 4th rounder) for Gibbs, that is all, so can you stop saying it's was 2 1st rounders because it wasn't.
Give credit to our recruiting team where they deserve it will you.
It’s irrelevant the perceived strength of the draft, have a look at the actual players who went 16 and beyond, Richards, Higgins, Kelly, Ryan, Allen.

There’s some real quality there
 

1970crow

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 7, 2011
27,599
28,346
alice springs
AFL Club
Adelaide
It’s been widely reported in the Hun recently, when discussing the trade, how Carlton’s valuation was unique
I’ve no doubt they were on their own having him directly after the franchise 5. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he averaged somewhere around the mid teens across the rest of the clubs. Would be very interested to find out, did the Hun give any further indication as to his average rating, him not being as high with anyone else was a given. I’ve seen a small amount of him and he looks like he might be pretty decent.
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
12,024
19,768
AFL Club
Carlton
That’s fair

Because no one else rated him that highly doesn’t mean the majority will turn out to be right

It does put you under the microscope though
Oh for sure.

But as a supporter i appreciate and respect having a team willing to back themselves and get creative in order to make things happen...and not just do the standard thing/pick the safe option year in, year out.

As long as they get most of those risks right and not **** up constantly that is ;)

What if Adelaide didn't have a horrific injury run last year and Gibbs helped you win a Grand Final? Not going to win a premiership without taking some risks.
Was good for you at the start of the year when your other inside mids were injured...at the time Brad Crouch couldn't get on the park as well.
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
12,024
19,768
AFL Club
Carlton
I’ve no doubt they were on their own having him directly after the franchise 5. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he averaged somewhere around the mid teens across the rest of the clubs. Would be very interested to find out, did the Hun give any further indication as to his average rating, him not being as high with anyone else was a given. I’ve seen a small amount of him and he looks like he might be pretty decent.
I guess based on the fact he lasted till 19 tells you at least quite a number of clubs had other players ahead of him.
I do recall he was injured for a decent part of last year including the last half i think, which may have had some effect.

Also i think clubs are choosing based on player type to assess their value to their team more and more these days, even early in the draft. They just don't want to admit it as it might lead to them missing out on the player.

Looking at some of the others who went before Stocker, we wouldn't need someone like Ben King who went at #6 because we have Charlie Curnow/McKay/McGovern up front and Weitering/Jones/Marchbank/Plowman down back. Using a high draft pick on ANOTHER KPP would have been dumb.

However a lot of clubs would need a KPP like him and maybe therefore have him higher on their draft board.

IIRC Rozee wasn't predicted to go quite as high as #5 for most of the year, but Port needed a player type like him and he was from SA, boosting his rating to Port in particular. Obviously been a good pick up. They also took Butters & Duursma, outside types with run and some x-factor to compliment their inside players like Rockliff/Wines/Powell-Pepper/Boak. So for them they wouldn't need someone like Stocker and neither would Adelaide with your abundance of big bodied, inside mids etc.
 
Top Bottom