Buchanan was (partly) right

Remove this Banner Ad

beatnik

Grizzled veteran
Jun 27, 2005
2,946
844
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
mavs, swan districts
having read Sunil Gavaskar's criticisms of Australia's attitude, I was reminded of a prediction by John Buchanan that at the time seemed to me to be a little paranoid and yet several years on, he seems to have been proven (at least partly) correct

first some background...

Buchanan predicted several years ago that Australia were so dominant that the rules of the game would end up being changed (read more)

what actually happened is that the rules changed 'off' the field rather than on

having broken all manner of records, the Aussies were set upon for not being 'nice guys' - their cricket could not be criticised so other teams and a largely-bored cricket media pack started to pick at the smallest things

the Aussies were not tampering with the ball, doctoring or tampering pitches, abusing spectators, walking off the field, forfeiting matches, taking drugs (granted, one took a masking agent) but apparently all of these things were lesser evils than...wait for it...being too self-confident and reminding others of just how good they were :eek:

nice guys...

so regardless of the apparent double standard, the Aussies tried to be 'nicer guys', particularly leading into the 2005 Ashes series:

Punter tried to implement an honour system for fielders claiming catches...and were were told to stick it by the newly (and temporarily it turned out) agressive Poms

Gilly pioneered the concept of walking...and was criticised for trying to manipulate umpires :rolleyes:

...in short, the Aussies were damned if they did, damned if they didn't

fighting fire with fire...

then we lost The Ashes as the English caught us on the hop with a brand of attacking and aggressive cricket - England were right to be congratulated on playing with such spirit after years of defeat, it was possibly the most exciting series in the past 5-10 years and brought Test cricket alive once more

* when Collingwood clashed with Hayden, he was described as brave and assertive;

* when Harmison hit Langer repeatedly, the world applauded the tough, uncompromising brand of cricket being played;

* when Pietersen talked trash to the Aussies, the bleating masses admired his pluck;

* when Fletcher baited Punter in the press; he was simply being a masterful tactician

the aftermath...

I hear you ask, was there any respect or compassion shown to the vanquished 'nice guy' Aussies who lost the Ashes but made a few new 'mates'?

other than Freddie Flintoff there was none of course - only weeks of excessive celebrations, premature predictions of the Aussie demise and claims of a new era of English cricket...the world joyously tap-danced on the supposed grave of Australian cricket dominance :)rolleyes: )

across the world, the Aussies were called soft; some players were said to be too 'chummy' with the enemy; Ponting's captaincy was questioned - apparently the Aussies had taken their collective eye off the ball and were too concerned with the niceties of the game rather than winning

hook. line. sinker.

double standards...

so Ponting went on a mission to turn his team into a hard, mean Test-winning machine and mentally devastated a new generation of English cricketers Down Under but were the Australians similarly applauded for their attacking, uncompromising cricket?

hell no, instead one of the ICC official representatives - that racist little teapot Sunil Gavaskar - has slipped back into sad and childish sniping of the world champions

he has made no criticisms of Pakistan protecting drug cheats, ball tamperers and pitch doctorers; no condemnation of the disturbing English lack of team spirit this summer; nothing on the appalling comments by one H. Gibbs (which incidentally seem to have been modelled on Sunil's own published racial steretypes); nothing about the bitterly divisive inner (and often outer) turmoil his favoured Indians have experienced in the past two years

but he has found time to dust off that old chestnut, "the Aussies call me names", just prior to a World Cup campaign! his timing is so poor as to be comical - India's political power within the ICC obviously means he can make innappropriate comments without fear of being called to account for his conflict-of-interest

as I said, Buchanan was partly right - the cricket world did move the goal posts but it was insidous and petty rather than transparently progressive

I hope that Punter and co. do not fall for the 'be a nice guy' trap again -as long as they play within the rules of the game, results are all that matter :thumbsu:

* steps down from soap box *
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Simon_Nesbit

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2001
11,677
8,107
Tasmania
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Gavaskar never was much of a bowler, but that has been well and truly dispatched over the long-on boundary.

Great stuff.
 

Kapow!!!

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 29, 2003
13,698
11,377
Queensland
AFL Club
Fremantle
Very good post but it must have taken you some time to put it together.

Considering the lengths to which International Cricket fans, followers and officials alike have gone to to slander the Australians this is a mere blip in the greater schemes of 'effort' and was well and truly justified by bringing it up.

Speaking of which, how many 'great posts' have you seen that haven't required effort? It's better than copying and pasting off cricinfo and being a mindless twat that'll either blindly believe it or give a short reply that seldom justifies a second paragraph.

Great post beatnik. Somebody bookmark this thread and throw it in the all time great posts bank!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Star

Premium Platinum
Mar 25, 2002
11,327
12,012
37° 70' 12"
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Excellent and well researched post

fighting fire with fire...

then we lost The Ashes as the English caught us on the hop with a brand of attacking and aggressive cricket - England were right to be congratulated on playing with such spirit after years of defeat, it was possibly the most exciting series in the past 5-10 years and brought Test cricket alive once more

* when Collingwood clashed with Hayden, he was described as brave and assertive;

* when Harmison hit Langer repeatedly, the world applauded the tough, uncompromising brand of cricket being played;

* when Pietersen talked trash to the Aussies, the bleating masses admired his pluck;

* when Fletcher baited Punter in the press; he was simply being a masterful tactician

Never a truer word...
 

Romeo

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 5, 2006
7,177
0
Hampton, Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
MAGPIES, BUSHRANGERS
Considering the lengths to which International Cricket fans, followers and officials alike have gone to to slander the Australians this is a mere blip in the greater schemes of 'effort' and was well and truly justified by bringing it up.

Speaking of which, how many 'great posts' have you seen that haven't required effort? It's better than copying and pasting off cricinfo and being a mindless twat that'll either blindly believe it or give a short reply that seldom justifies a second paragraph.

Great post beatnik. Somebody bookmark this thread and throw it in the all time great posts bank!

Yes Beatnik I like the way you have pointed out the way journos twist words to always make us sound like the devil whereas others' similar actions are perceived in a positive light.

BTW Kapow I don't cut and paste off Cricinfo and I do occasionally start a thread with a discussion point. I hate getting stereotyped because of the KP stuff.
 

mbuck

Club Legend
Oct 3, 2006
1,892
0
perth.wa
AFL Club
Essendon
Yes Beatnik I like the way you have pointed out the way journos twist words to always make us sound like the devil whereas others' similar actions are perceived in a positive light.

BTW Kapow I don't cut and paste off Cricinfo and I do occasionally start a thread with a discussion point. I hate getting stereotyped because of the KP stuff.
it sure seems that way, look at your posts... every second is a news article and inbetween it is some whinging
 

Shmoses

Club Legend
Jul 10, 2006
1,857
16
AFL Club
Geelong
This is a magnificent thread. Email your body of text to newspapers and cricinfo.com.
 

Cap

TheBrownDog
Jul 27, 2004
53,101
44,234
Las Vegas
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood
well done on the post beatnik

good to see someone put together a well thought out arguement

maybe you need to send that to some newspapers in India :thumbsu:
 

dr nick

Brownlow Medallist
May 22, 2002
13,353
28
Dee Why, NSW
AFL Club
Sydney
The opening poster is spot on.

Infact Gavaskar recently contrasted our hated/arrogant Aussies to the much admired and liked West Indies of the early 80's (his words)...

but if you real Sunil's autobiography, Sunny Days or whatever it's called... he makes much mention of the West Indies arrogance, intimidatory tactics, uncivilised and primitive supporters, cheating, and boorish field play including bowling 70 overs in a day and relentless sledging.

I'll have to get snippets from what he said the other day and compare them with what he wrote in his book. He's strikes me as one of those blokes, even towards the current Indian players, that resents the money, fame and celebrity the current players enjoy compared to him, who left on the cusp of professionalism.
 

frankrizzo

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 6, 2004
11,931
10,493
jfgjgfj
Great post right on the money.

Truth is the west indies of the 80's were pricks who bowled 11 overs an hour of bouncers, their fast bowlers wouldn't even talk to the other team off the pitch and yet these guys are held up as some sort of standard our team can't reach?

Give me a break.
 

linda

All Australian
Oct 25, 2005
923
5
third in the Olympics
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Derby County
having read Sunil Gavaskar's criticisms of Australia's attitude, I was reminded of a prediction by John Buchanan that at the time seemed to me to be a little paranoid and yet several years on, he seems to have been proven (at least partly) correct

first some background...

Buchanan predicted several years ago that Australia were so dominant that the rules of the game would end up being changed (read more)

what actually happened is that the rules changed 'off' the field rather than on

having broken all manner of records, the Aussies were set upon for not being 'nice guys' - their cricket could not be criticised so other teams and a largely-bored cricket media pack started to pick at the smallest things

the Aussies were not tampering with the ball, doctoring or tampering pitches, abusing spectators, walking off the field, forfeiting matches, taking drugs (granted, one took a masking agent) but apparently all of these things were lesser evils than...wait for it...being too self-confident and reminding others of just how good they were :eek:

nice guys...

so regardless of the apparent double standard, the Aussies tried to be 'nicer guys', particularly leading into the 2005 Ashes series:

Punter tried to implement an honour system for fielders claiming catches...and were were told to stick it by the newly (and temporarily it turned out) agressive Poms

Gilly pioneered the concept of walking...and was criticised for trying to manipulate umpires :rolleyes:

...in short, the Aussies were damned if they did, damned if they didn't

fighting fire with fire...

then we lost The Ashes as the English caught us on the hop with a brand of attacking and aggressive cricket - England were right to be congratulated on playing with such spirit after years of defeat, it was possibly the most exciting series in the past 5-10 years and brought Test cricket alive once more

* when Collingwood clashed with Hayden, he was described as brave and assertive;

* when Harmison hit Langer repeatedly, the world applauded the tough, uncompromising brand of cricket being played;

* when Pietersen talked trash to the Aussies, the bleating masses admired his pluck;

* when Fletcher baited Punter in the press; he was simply being a masterful tactician

the aftermath...

I hear you ask, was there any respect or compassion shown to the vanquished 'nice guy' Aussies who lost the Ashes but made a few new 'mates'?

other than Freddie Flintoff there was none of course - only weeks of excessive celebrations, premature predictions of the Aussie demise and claims of a new era of English cricket...the world joyously tap-danced on the supposed grave of Australian cricket dominance :)rolleyes: )

across the world, the Aussies were called soft; some players were said to be too 'chummy' with the enemy; Ponting's captaincy was questioned - apparently the Aussies had taken their collective eye off the ball and were too concerned with the niceties of the game rather than winning

hook. line. sinker.

double standards...

so Ponting went on a mission to turn his team into a hard, mean Test-winning machine and mentally devastated a new generation of English cricketers Down Under but were the Australians similarly applauded for their attacking, uncompromising cricket?

hell no, instead one of the ICC official representatives - that racist little teapot Sunil Gavaskar - has slipped back into sad and childish sniping of the world champions

he has made no criticisms of Pakistan protecting drug cheats, ball tamperers and pitch doctorers; no condemnation of the disturbing English lack of team spirit this summer; nothing on the appalling comments by one H. Gibbs (which incidentally seem to have been modelled on Sunil's own published racial steretypes); nothing about the bitterly divisive inner (and often outer) turmoil his favoured Indians have experienced in the past two years

but he has found time to dust off that old chestnut, "the Aussies call me names", just prior to a World Cup campaign! his timing is so poor as to be comical - India's political power within the ICC obviously means he can make innappropriate comments without fear of being called to account for his conflict-of-interest

as I said, Buchanan was partly right - the cricket world did move the goal posts but it was insidous and petty rather than transparently progressive

I hope that Punter and co. do not fall for the 'be a nice guy' trap again -as long as they play within the rules of the game, results are all that matter :thumbsu:

* steps down from soap box *



What a load of guff its like reading an Australian newspaper .You are seeing what you want to see infact it wouldnt be out of place on a Pakistani forum .The whole world is against them as well you know its an international conspiracy

We may be crap at sport and used to it but we can take defeat on the chin instead of crying like babies .This sort of attitude is the real reason Australians are often disliked ,not all the so called one sided reasons you put up
 

Jumpin' Jimmy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 1, 2004
8,453
179
Up Upwey way
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Dragons,Spurs, Boston C's
We may be crap at sport and used to it but we can take defeat on the chin instead of crying like babies

Poms are so used to losing at sport they have become the masters at accepting defeat on the chin. Tim Henman is your national hero. Crowds, including a majority of females, turn up to watch in awe at his herculian efforts to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

chookxt0.png


Timmy the Chook
 

bus24

Cancelled
Sep 23, 2006
18,009
1
Heppenheim
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sebastian Vettel
First of all Linda.....

You're back, how long has it been? Why no posting during the Ashes after you had gobbed off and were made to look like a fool? Any dramatic World Cup predictions for us?


What a load of guff its like reading an Australian newspaper .You are seeing what you want to see infact it wouldnt be out of place on a Pakistani forum .The whole world is against them as well you know its an international conspiracy

Take your England glasses off and go have another read. It raises great points and surely even you should be able to see the contradictions. Unless you are 'seeing what you want to' :rolleyes:

but we can take defeat on the chin instead of crying like babies .

English Football fans anyone? You go for the other team and my team lost.... so.... I'll punch your lights out. :)

This sort of attitude is the real reason Australians are often disliked ,not all the so called one sided reasons you put up

What sort of attitude is this?

Wanting to win?

Or is it the sort of attitude you are putting on display here? You're ignoring the validity of the post because "You're seeing what you want to see" :rolleyes:
 

Remove this Banner Ad