Mega Thread Buckley Contract extension

[Jimthegreat]

I keep hearing this. Can anyone actually provide an example of this with other coaches?

Takes extremely little intelligence to work out that if a coach took a side backwards for 6 years, especially premiership side, to finish 11th, 12th, 12th and 13th over the last 4 years, that they would've been sacked long ago. You can't work that out?

 

[Jimthegreat]

There's a fair amount of irony in Carlton supporters weighing in on this debate with a 'we know best' attitude given they've been perennial celler dwellers for the past two decades and they're the ones who in a 'results based industry' have actually gone backwards with 6 wins in 2017 compared to 7 wins last year...

So if there is more to it than just wins and losses when reflecting on Carlton's year why is it not the case for other teams?

Collingwood's supporters really struggle. Collingwood have got worse and worse every year, a premiership side taken to nothing. Carlton went a much younger profile this year, alot of teenagers and under 22s, and actually led 7 times in last qtrs only to lose. Remember Carlton is restarting from scratch, as Richmond did under Hardwick, Collingwood started at the top and were turned to s**t by Buckley. When you turn a side to s**t you get sacked unless your name is Buckley and you're from Collingwood. It's obviously Collingwood and some of it supporters embrace mediocrity.

Make no mistake, if we are still winning just 6 or 7 games after 4 years of Bolton you can bet he won't be around. We've learned to do things professionally finally, took a while, Collingwood though are obviously amateurs.

 

[Fadge]

Collingwood's supporters really struggle. Collingwood have got worse and worse every year, a premiership side taken to nothing. Carlton went a much younger profile this year, alot of teenagers and under 22s, and actually led 7 times in last qtrs only to lose. Remember Carlton is restarting from scratch, as Richmond did under Hardwick, Collingwood started at the top and were turned to s**t by Buckley. When you turn a side to s**t you get sacked unless your name is Buckley and you're from Collingwood. It's obviously Collingwood and some of it supporters embrace mediocrity.

Make no mistake, if we are still winning just 6 or 7 games after 4 years of Bolton you can bet he won't be around. We've learned to do things professionally finally, took a while, Collingwood though are obviously amateurs.

Amateur hour at Collingwood whilst Carlton are true professionals...

Must be pure luck that we have played in five grand finals and had three other top four finishes since Carlton's most recent Preliminary Final appearance?

Look out if the Pies ever get their s**t together!

 

[MISFITS]

Greetings from Kim Jong Maquire

 

[The 747]

I keep hearing this. Can anyone actually provide an example of this with other coaches?

No because no coach has survived six years of worsening results I'm pretty sure.

 

[PieLebo87]

Takes extremely little intelligence to work out that if a coach took a side backwards for 6 years, especially premiership side, to finish 11th, 12th, 12th and 13th over the last 4 years, that they would've been sacked long ago. You can't work that out?

Why aren't you working at Collingwood or the AFL as you're obviously extremely intelligent by your logic?

 

[PieLebo87]

No because no coach has survived six years of worsening results I'm pretty sure.

So that means what everyone has been saying is actually BS then. Because apparently there are other coaches, who's names aren't Nathan Buckley, that got sacked. So are there examples that it's only Buckley's name that has gotten him an extension, or there isn't? People should either back up their arguments with facts or stop speaking s**t.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

So that means what everyone has been saying is actually BS then. Because apparently there are other coaches, who's names aren't Nathan Buckley, that got sacked. So are there examples that it's only Buckley's name that has gotten him an extension, or there isn't? People should either back up their arguments with facts or stop speaking s**t.

People are trying to make sense of a decision that really doesn't make sense.

It's really hard to look past the worsening performances each year.
I mean, we've seen Longmire and Chris Scott both inherit premiership lists and maintain/improve. They've both made grand finals.

That's Buckley's peer group. Collingwood needs Buckley to have the squad performing at these kind of levels. Instead it's another lonely September.

The only arguments I can really see making sense:
1. Collingwood looked to lure in other coaches but couldn't. (e.g. Roos rumours)
2. Collingwood felt that the search for a new coach would cost too much in time/effort only to find an untried coach that may not be any better.
3. Collingwood actually think Buckley is great even though his side finishes lower each season.

But the third one doesn't make sense.

 

[PieLebo87]

People are trying to make sense of a decision that really doesn't make sense.

It's really hard to look past the worsening performances each year.
I mean, we've seen Longmire and Chris Scott both inherit premiership lists and maintain/improve. They've both made grand finals.

That's Buckley's peer group. Collingwood needs Buckley to have the squad performing at these kind of levels. Instead it's another lonely September.

The only arguments I can really see making sense:
1. Collingwood looked to lure in other coaches but couldn't. (e.g. Roos rumours)
2. Collingwood felt that the search for a new coach would cost too much in time/effort only to find an untried coach that may not be any better.
3. Collingwood actually think Buckley is great even though his side finishes lower each season.

But the third one doesn't make sense.

Don't disagree with anything you've said and when being put up against Sydney/Longmire and Geelong/Scott, the Pies have well and truly fallen short.

They've done a review and established there are shortcomings in the FD and are addressing it. As part of this review, they established that the senior coach did not have adequate support and are also addressing that.

They obviously believe Buckley isn't the issue, and have awarded him with a 2 year extension, I am backing the club with this. My stance may change in 12 months time. But I won't sit by and let outsiders take pot shots trying to use ladder positions ect as their argument because that is an extremely simple argument which shows a complete lack of insight or knowledge.

 

[The 747]

So that means what everyone has been saying is actually BS then. Because apparently there are other coaches, who's names aren't Nathan Buckley, that got sacked. So are there examples that it's only Buckley's name that has gotten him an extension, or there isn't? People should either back up their arguments with facts or stop speaking s**t.

Ok, do YOU think a coach who wasnt Buckley would survive six years of worsening results - and be re-signed - at Collingwood?

 

[PieLebo87]

Ok, do YOU think a coach who wasnt Buckley would survive six years of worsening results - and be re-signed - at Collingwood?

I indirectly answered in the post above yours.

They've done a review and established there are shortcomings in the FD and are addressing it. As part of this review, they established that the senior coach did not have adequate support and are also addressing that.

They obviously believe Buckley isn't the issue, and have awarded him with a 2 year extension, I am backing the club with this. My stance may change in 12 months time. But I won't sit by and let outsiders take pot shots trying to use ladder positions ect as their argument because that is an extremely simple argument which shows a complete lack of insight or knowledge.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Don't disagree with anything you've said and when being put up against Sydney/Longmire and Geelong/Scott, the Pies have well and truly fallen short.

They've done a review and established there are shortcomings in the FD and are addressing it. As part of this review, they established that the senior coach did not have adequate support and are also addressing that.

They obviously believe Buckley isn't the issue, and have awarded him with a 2 year extension, I am backing the club with this. My stance may change in 12 months time. But I won't sit by and let outsiders take pot shots trying to use ladder positions ect as their argument because that is an extremely simple argument which shows a complete lack of insight or knowledge.

I would definitely back my club as well and take the glass half full approach.

However...

You want a more tangible reason than Buckley not having enough support. What kind of support did he need and not get? If the senior coach isn't the guy held accountable for ladder position then I think something is wrong.

I've always liked Buckley and like everyone else thought he should have done an apprenticeship first. But I also thought that given enough time he is focused and determined enough to become a good coach.

The problem is that he's learning on the job and it's not working out.

The senior coach is such an important role. You have to make sure you've got the BEST POSSIBLE. Not just someone who hasn't done enough wrong to not get fired - but the best available person in the land. If that's Buckley - sure. But He's got six years of exposed form and the system he oversees has produced a long term decline. It's a weird thing to defend.

Also - interestingly - I think rebuild coaches are different to finishing coaches. Bulldogs turfed out the guy before Bev (Forget his name) but the young guys loved him. He built a core base. Obviously disenfranchised the older guys and maybe some of the senior staff at the club - but he built a great base. Bevo certainly wasn't riding his coattails though. You talk to people at the club and he brought something completely new to the club that shifted them from rebuilding into challenging.

Buckley was hired as a steadying coach - someone who could maintain and rebuild on the run. (Assuming Collingwood weren't planning for a 6 year decline?) But now he's almost in a position where he's the rebuild coach.

 

[purplearmy]

What changes are Collingwood supporters expecting in the next two years?

 

[PieLebo87]

I would definitely back my club as well and take the glass half full approach.

That's exactly right. As mentioned previously, my stance may change if the Pies aren't contending for finals in 2018.

You want a more tangible reason than Buckley not having enough support. What kind of support did he need and not get? If the senior coach isn't the guy held accountable for ladder position then I think something is wrong.

Malthouse was to be that support. It was the perfect arrangement by Eddie. What more can you ask for as a rookie coach than a multiple Premiership winning champion of the game to mentor you in the director of coaching role. Unfortunately for everyone involved, Malthouse backed out of a deal he initially signed on for.

I've always liked Buckley and like everyone else thought he should have done an apprenticeship first. But I also thought that given enough time he is focused and determined enough to become a good coach.


The problem is that he's learning on the job and it's not working out.

In hindsight, he should've done more of an apprenticeship, but in saying that, if you're in the field, and you're offered the opportunity of a lifetime, would you turn it down? He would've genuinely believed he was capable and initially, he looked capable with a Prelim in his first season.

The senior coach is such an important role. You have to make sure you've got the BEST POSSIBLE. Not just someone who hasn't done enough wrong to not get fired - but the best available person in the land. If that's Buckley - sure. But He's got six years of exposed form and the system he oversees has produced a long term decline. It's a weird thing to defend.

If rumours are anything to go by, Collingwood did sus out the best possible options, and did not get the outcome they were after. So I agree with them, that Buckley is most likely the best available candidate available/willing to coach Collingwood for the next two years. I'm glad they didn't go with an untried coach, because i believe that's a risk the club is not in a position to take at present.

Also - interestingly - I think rebuild coaches are different to finishing coaches. Bulldogs turfed out the guy before Bev (Forget his name) but the young guys loved him. He built a core base. Obviously disenfranchised the older guys and maybe some of the senior staff at the club - but he built a great base. Bevo certainly wasn't riding his coattails though. You talk to people at the club and he brought something completely new to the club that shifted them from rebuilding into challenging.

Or you look at Richmond as the other example where the easy option would've been to maintain the rot and make Hardwick a scapegoat but they didn't and are now reaping the rewards of their decision the following year.

 

[docko911]

Why did they give him two more years? Should have been a bloody weekly contract with his replacement sitting behind him in every game.

 

[PieLebo87]

What changes are Collingwood supporters expecting in the next two years?

For me - contending for finals in 2018 and contending for top 4 in 2019.

If that's not achieved, than bring in someone else who can do it.

 

[PieLebo87]

Why did they give him two more years? Should have been a bloody weekly contract with his replacement sitting behind him in every game.

Or made it two years, but had Caro and Slobbo literally sitting behind him, breathing down his neck. We'd win the next 5 flags.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

That's exactly right. As mentioned previously, my stance may change if the Pies aren't contending for finals in 2018.

Malthouse was to be that support. It was the perfect arrangement by Eddie. What more can you ask for as a rookie coach than a multiple Premiership winning champion of the game to mentor you in the director of coaching role. Unfortunately for everyone involved, Malthouse backed out of a deal he initially signed on for.

In hindsight, he should've done more of an apprenticeship, but in saying that, if you're in the field, and you're offered the opportunity of a lifetime, would you turn it down? He would've genuinely believed he was capable and initially, he looked capable with a Prelim in his first season.

If rumours are anything to go by, Collingwood did sus out the best possible options, and did not get the outcome they were after. So I agree with them, that Buckley is most likely the best available candidate available/willing to coach Collingwood for the next two years. I'm glad they didn't go with an untried coach, because i believe that's a risk the club is not in a position to take at present.

Or you look at Richmond as the other example where the easy option would've been to maintain the rot and make Hardwick a scapegoat but they didn't and are now reaping the rewards of their decision the following year.

I consider Richmond the exception rather than the rule. Richmond has been amazingly patient and what they've produced is a rare thing.

But let's put it another way. What is Buckley doing so exceedingly well that he is maintaining his job despite the continual decline of the club?

 

[PieLebo87]

I consider Richmond the exception rather than the rule. Richmond has been amazingly patient and what they've produced is a rare thing.

It's unprecedented with Richmond. It was the norm to simply sack the coach and have the new coach come in and change things around the FD. But what if Richmond are onto something? Maybe Collingwood have identified that clubs should look deeper to identify what is going wrong instead of appeasing the masses who simply want to see blood?

But let's put it another way. What is Buckley doing so exceedingly well that he is maintaining his job despite the continual decline of the club?

Do you agree that he commenced a mini rebuild of the club at the end of the 2013? If not, than there's no point answering the question.

If so, he had the next 3 years to build his 'own' side and would need to show results by 2017. Collingwood hasn't made finals in 2017, but they've performed better than they did in 2016, and there is an unbelievable show of unity/support for him from the majority of the playing group. With the right changes in the FD, the players/club believe he can show the rest of the comp over the next two years why he has been backed with this extension.

 

[Venkman]

I think this thread has a lot a filler - it's becoming like a lot bigfooty threads: cesspits of half baked ideas as people take out the frustrations of their otherwise unhappy and miserable lives, often linked to the fact that their own football clubs lack the kind of history and success of the mighty Pies. With this in mind it's probably time to just reinforce the understanding that Carlton supporters really have no place in most kinds of rational dialogue, but more specifically, any discussion about success and winning culture. It's a bit like the homeless guy telling you how you should manage your own life, a bit of awkward for everyone. So Carlton supporters please be mindful of this.