News Buckley standing down; Robert Harvey interim coach for 2021

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The Plowking

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Feb 21, 2016
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Buckley made a telling comment in the press conference about how Geelong smashed them in the final last year and then added 3 best 22 in Smith Higgins Cameron, while Collingwood lost 3 best 22 - he really was always on a hiding to nothing this year.

A kick away from a flag and then a kick away from another GF where they would have gone it at about, I don't know, a 40% chance to win against Richmond? It really is a game of inches sometimes.
Tigers would have done us by 50 points I reckon. Just too good.
 

PieLebo87

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I like Buckley, but you can't ignore his trend line. Everyone would be a lot happier with the Buckley years if they were in reverse order:
  • Starts with a bottom-4 team.

  • 2nd year: Jumps into 8th and wins a final.

  • 3rd year: Makes top 4.

  • 4th year: Grand Final, almost wins the flag.

  • 5th year: Falls back to 12th.

  • 6th-8th years: Slow but steady win/loss improvement.

  • 9th year: Back into the finals, finishing 6th.

  • 10th year: Back into the Top 4.
Next of course the Pies go 20-2 at 170%, becoming one of the greatest teams not to win the flag, and the year after that, they take the premiership.
Reckon the trend line is a crap way to talk him down as a coach. I’ve previously mentioned he isn’t a great coach, but he is a good coach.

Everyone saying he took a Premiership team and regressed should also probably realise the only way from the top is down. You can’t improve from first.

Its very lazy of them when they simply want to use that as an argument.
 

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The 747

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Reckon the trend line is a crap way to talk him down as a coach. I’ve previously mentioned he isn’t a great coach, but he is a good coach.

Everyone saying he took a Premiership team and regressed should also probably realise the only way from the top is down. You can’t improve from first.

Its very lazy of them when they simply want to use that as an argument.
The only comparison that comes to mind is Chris Scott who inherited a premiership team. Comparable performance to Buckley no?
 

Rotayjay

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I know he won an SANFL premiership, but imagine that: a kick away from an AFL premiership as a player in 2002, a kick away from a premiership in 2018, and a kick away from a grand final in 2019. So close and yet so far, after nearly thirty years involved in the AFL.
 

The 747

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Scott obviously has the flag from 2011. From when Buckley started coaching in 2012, in the 9 full seasons, both have achieved 1 runner up. Is Scott not a good coach? No.
They both inherited top 2 sides, both made 1 GF and one coach has gone at a bit over 70% WL and the other a bit over 50%.
 

Final Siren

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Reckon the trend line is a crap way to talk him down as a coach. I’ve previously mentioned he isn’t a great coach, but he is a good coach.

Everyone saying he took a Premiership team and regressed should also probably realise the only way from the top is down. You can’t improve from first.

Its very lazy of them when they simply want to use that as an argument.
I hear you, and you would have paid a lot more attention to Buckley than me.

It might not be fair, but what fans want from a coach is improvement. We're happy with not winning the flag so long as things seem to be moving in the right direction. So, yeah, a coach who takes over a flag team is on a hiding to nothing.

People kept pointing to Hardwick as a reason to keep faith in Buckley, but from 2010-2016 Richmond improved their win-loss in 5/7 years, while Collingwood under Buckley went backwards in 8/10 seasons. Both almost lost their jobs, but I reckon that was what let people believe in Hardwick, even though the Tigers had a worse record.

Trend is huge in football... perceived trend, at least. You can walk away from a big loss feeling okay if the team played well at the end, but if it just got worse and worse, you feel hopeless. Same with how a team finishes off the season: You're a lot more optimistic if you finish with a string of wins than if you got them at the start of the year then fell away. We're all trying to project trend lines into the future.
 

PieLebo87

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I hear you, and you would have paid a lot more attention to Buckley than me.

It might not be fair, but what fans want from a coach is improvement. We're happy with not winning the flag so long as things seem to be moving in the right direction. So, yeah, a coach who takes over a flag team is on a hiding to nothing.

People kept pointing to Hardwick as a reason to keep faith in Buckley, but from 2010-2016 Richmond improved their win-loss in 5/7 years, while Collingwood under Buckley went backwards in 8/10 seasons. Both almost lost their jobs, but I reckon that was what let people believe in Hardwick, even though the Tigers had a worse record.

Trend is huge in football... perceived trend, at least. You can walk away from a big loss feeling okay if the team played well at the end, but if it just got worse and worse, you feel hopeless. Same with how a team finishes off the season: You're a lot more optimistic if you finish with a string of wins than if you got them at the start of the year then fell away. We're all trying to project trend lines into the future.
Not gonna ever make excuses for him, and for a third time, I’ll say he was a good coach, but not a great coach. What does get glossed over though was his wretched run with injuries during majority of his tenure as coach. Whilst people will look at the downwards trend in ladder position, he also never got a great crack at it in those earlier years, up until 2018 due to injuries to a number of his key players. It was only really 2019 and 2020 where he had no proper excuse, and failed. Thus the call a few days ago not upsetting too many Collingwood supporters.

People forget he almost won a flag in a GF against Kennedy and Darling with Goldsack and Howe as the two KPDs of the back six. We should never have even been that close without having Dunn, Moore and Langdon playing in that back 6. Again, not making excuses, he didn’t survive, and I’m personally looking forward to the next person trying their luck as senior coach.
 

cakewalk06

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Not gonna ever make excuses for him, and for a third time, I’ll say he was a good coach, but not a great coach. What does get glossed over though was his wretched run with injuries during majority of his tenure as coach. Whilst people will look at the downwards trend in ladder position, he also never got a great crack at it in those earlier years, up until 2018 due to injuries to a number of his key players. It was only really 2019 and 2020 where he had no proper excuse, and failed. Thus the call a few days ago not upsetting too many Collingwood supporters.

People forget he almost won a flag in a GF against Kennedy and Darling with Goldsack and Howe as the two KPDs of the back six. We should never have even been that close without having Dunn, Moore and Langdon playing in that back 6. Again, not making excuses, he didn’t survive, and I’m personally looking forward to the next person trying their luck as senior coach.

i agree with many of your points and those of Final Siren.. should point out though that Langdon was playing in that grand final and indeed was at the peak of his career, playing like a superstar through that finals series.

No coach can really fight the cyclical nature of the game (maybe Geelong excepted). EG, Voss is perceived as a failed senior coach but he took on the Lions when they were in rapid decline.. i don't want him at the Pies (due to old scars!) but I don't think he should be judged on his tenure at a Lions team that no one could have coached to success.
 

Falchoon

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I could be wrong but I thought I remembered people ages ago saying that Robert Harvey was not exactly the brightest bulb in the world. If true it is odd that he was an assistant coach, and now an interim coach at Collingwood.
Harves is not a conversationalist by nature.
 

PieLebo87

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i agree with many of your points and those of Final Siren.. should point out though that Langdon was playing in that grand final and indeed was at the peak of his career, playing like a superstar through that finals series.

No coach can really fight the cyclical nature of the game (maybe Geelong excepted). EG, Voss is perceived as a failed senior coach but he took on the Lions when they were in rapid decline.. i don't want him at the Pies (due to old scars!) but I don't think he should be judged on his tenure at a Lions team that no one could have coached to success.
Apologies, I was thinking of Ben Reid. Daniel Wells would’ve been handy on the day too.
 

david addison

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I don't feel inspired to say anything about this, even though I'm a huge fan of his, and I don't know why. Maybe I'm in shock. Maybe I'm too upset to find the words. Maybe, and this should put the fear of god into Gil, maybe 18 months of no games has left me disaffected. Alright, I'll give it a go. Here's some words that come to mind - infuriated, disenchanted, saddened, confused, donuts. I love donuts. Mmmmm, donuts. Cheated. There's a word. Cheated. And if Bucks was less evolved he'd be thinking the same thing. The first six years with his finger in the dyke. Week after week fielding teams with the remnants of an injury ravaged list. Many fans blamed the move from Gosch's Paddock to a harder Olympic Park. We'll never know. That ship has sailed. And then the last eighteen months trying to coach in the midst of a 'pandemic'. His only opportunity to show his wares and enjoy the ride was 2018-19. Cheated. Often he has spoken about 'losing the locker room' in his first year as coach, and that he should write a book about it. Now's the chance.

First season as coach, 2012. A funeral on the way to the prelim. John McCarthy. The team bus pulls to the side of the road so the players can change into their footy gear. Not ideal preparation. I went up to Sydney for that game. ANZ stadium. The Swans had a 3 or 4 goal lead at quarter time, and held it for the remainder of the game. I've got 3 memories of that night. 1. It was Tarrant's last game. 2. Swans fans gained access to the Central Station public address system after the game, and I had to listen to the most juvenile crap while waiting for the train. 3. The shape of the ground. There's no word to describe it. It had no pockets. It wasn't even symmetrical. Compromised by seating erected for another event. Almost comical. Back to Sydney this Monday. Full circle. And with stars missing. Completely appropriate.

Second season as coach. Elimination final. The Port Power coach motivates his players by telling them that 'Collingwood is a divided unit'. Didak is omitted in favour of a new kid Elliot. I wasn't happy. Heater lost the plot. The Pies rallied late, but to no avail. Then a rebuild. 4 years of no finals. Bucks coming out of contract sparks a 12 month media gang bang and an internal review. Then a bittersweet 2018. An outstanding 2019 qualifying final against the Cats, and a glorious 2020 elimination final against the Eagles. A necessary but unsavory trade period and a racism report left some members cold. Members who usually see clearly found themselves stuck in the Murdoch matrix. A media scorned by club dishonestly in the trade period unleashed 6 months of headlines, leaving the coach disillusioned with the industry, and shortening his after-match pressers. The influx of kids, probably meant that the coach was enjoying the 2021 season, despite the win / loss. But the club wimped out and showed him the door.

I heard a player describe the media as a 'parasitic satellite'. Pretty funny. Like a mosquito, just an annoying meaningless presence while trying the enjoy a game of Aussie Rules. Existing only for themselves. Growing more desperate with each passing year. Disrespect usually reserved for social media, now finds a home in newspapers. 'We're the team that always let's you down', 'Missy Higgins', 'Dirty Pies', 'Rat Pack', 'Figjam'. The latter was a Sheahan / Anderson construct. They made it up. They sat in an office thinking of ways to hitch their wagon to this guy because they knew he'd be around for a long time. Some words to describe Bucks, the media icon: articulate, level headed, exploited, disrespected, misrepresented, donuts. Mmmm donuts. I love those things. A human guinea pig. Held to a higher standard than everybody else. 'Snot nice'. Remember that? The Footy Show panel were joking about footage of a player accidently wiping snot on a teammate. Bucks chimes in with the corny line 'snot nice'. Robbo sitting at hope watching, thinks it's just not right that a leader be using that kind of language, and prints a story about it the next day. That's how Robbo comes up with a story. Watching the Footy Show. Pathetic. A work experience kid could do it. No morals, no integrity, just desperation & vendettas. Perfect successor to Sheahan. Famously never attended a game in Perth. Says it all really.

Have you heard the phrase 'Catch & Kill'? That's when a media organization buys exclusivity to a story, with the sole intention of burying it. Michael Warner was on Sam Newman's podcast last week, plugging his new book 'The Boys Club' (an expose of the AFL administration). Shortly before the podcast, Sam received a phone call from none other than Gil. Robbo got wind of the phone call and said he'd write about it, but he pulled it. None of the Melbourne AFL media dare mention the book. In it, Warner describes a 2018 Brownlow Medal after-party, where AFL execs were snorting coke. Stories like this are buried, while they have us arguing trivialities such as 'should Port Power be wearing B&W stripes?' They play us for fools. Constantly in damage control. Similar to the Vic govt circulating UFO stories in the midst of a 'pandemic'. Did you know Tim Worner gave Ben Roberts-Smith a job at 7. Think about that, the next time the media accuse your club of having a 'poor culture'.

Scandals & Collingwood. A match made in heaven. Always and forever. In fact, I think Floreat Pica means 'Never-Ending Scandal'. I must be jaded. I completely misjudged the gravity of this summer's events. I thought they'd blow over like always. Had no idea it would blow up the club. Completely blindsided. Even the racism stuff. All clubs have skeletons in the closet. In fact there's a club that wears blue hoops who were quite happy to be out of the spotlight down the highway while the Pies were self-investigating. If you've read Robbie Muir's testimony, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The Pies were by no means the worst offender. Lots of talk from other clubs to launch a similar investigation, but of course none of them did. That's because they know what McGuire should have known - heads would inevitably have to roll. As for Harry O, don't be calling yourself Chimp, and then whine about it a decade later. Seriously.

The Pies lost a semi final by ten goals, with Treloar, Philips & Stephenson on the list. A rebuild was on the cards regardless. And I think we can finish crying for Ads. I mean really. He seems to have landed on his feet. His contract was paralyzing, while other clubs were landing the big fish. Not uncommon for a club to pay out the contract of someone playing for another club. I told other Pies fans to 'get over it', but I'm quite sure they weren't listening. Stevo showed his true colours while in the hub. Philips - no idea what happened there. I ran into Atu's family quite often at VFL games. A beautiful family. Very cool people.

In the wake of Buck's departure, some of the journos haven't exactly cloaked themselves in glory. A shout-out to Tom Morris, who suggested Bucks 'lost the players'. If I were the Prime Minister Tom, I would accuse you of 'spreading misinformation that could endanger lives'. And also Riley Beverage. Riley found it necessary to declare that the 'scrutiny of the past 6 months was warranted'. Conscience clearly bothering him. Comes a point when 'scrutiny' becomes 'harassment' & 'exploitation' Riley, and you know it.

Breaking news: The revamp at Collingwood includes the song. If the Pies get over the Demons this week, this is what you'll hear from the players circle (fans need to learn this by Monday):

There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light

Oh, can't you see the morning after?
It's waiting right outside the storm
Why don't we cross the bridge together
And find a place that's safe and warm?

It's not too late, we should be giving
Only with love can we climb
It's not too late, not while we're living
Let's put our hands out in time

There's got to be a morning after
We're moving closer to the shore
I know we'll be there by tomorrow
And we'll escape the darkness
We won't be searching anymore

Next coach? Why not the same person who succeeded Bucks as captain.

That's quite a lot for someone who wasn't motivated. This is bigfooty, so I'm sure I've offended somebody. Sorry for the thoughts in my head. If they're not the same as yours, that's OK. That's normal.
 

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barrackers

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Not gonna ever make excuses for him, and for a third time, I’ll say he was a good coach, but not a great coach. What does get glossed over though was his wretched run with injuries during majority of his tenure as coach. Whilst people will look at the downwards trend in ladder position, he also never got a great crack at it in those earlier years, up until 2018 due to injuries to a number of his key players. It was only really 2019 and 2020 where he had no proper excuse, and failed. Thus the call a few days ago not upsetting too many Collingwood supporters.

People forget he almost won a flag in a GF against Kennedy and Darling with Goldsack and Howe as the two KPDs of the back six. We should never have even been that close without having Dunn, Moore and Langdon playing in that back 6. Again, not making excuses, he didn’t survive, and I’m personally looking forward to the next person trying their luck as senior coach.
A very proppy Goldsack who only 9 months earlier had done his knee. Alongside Dunn our other main key back in '18 was Scharenberg who held down CHB and did well for most of the year until he done his knee.
 

Rotayjay

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How many coaches win flags at their second club, without winning one at their first club?
It feels to me like recycled coaches don't often work out, happy to be corrected though.
Malcolm Blight is the only one I can think of. What other senior coaches won flags at their second or subsequent club but not their first?
 

McOrist

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Malcolm Blight is the only one I can think of. What other senior coaches won flags at their second or subsequent club but not their first?
...even the legendary Norm Smith was a 'recycled' coach. He coached Fitzroy for 3 years (0 flags) before transferring to Melbourne, where he won 6 premierships.
 

Billys Back

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Seeing how much Colllingwood has mismanaged their salary cap I think this really diminishes the effort in 2018. In hindsight it looks like Ed threw everything at getting his boy a premiership at the cost of long term planning.
You’re not the brightest spark are you?

The cap issues happened post GF when the club thought they were so close so brought in Beams and paid overs to keep the players (some hit financial triggers) at the club.

What’s your excuse?
 

Billys Back

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All in all Bucks was a great player that like many other great players before him didn't taste ultimate glory. The biggest factor being that when his team was good, they faced one of the great teams of all time.

As a coach though, he was mediocre to poor in his first 5-6 years. Any other coach during that period would've been sacked. The review in 2017, taught him that he needed to connect and listen to his playing group, despite it not being his natural tendency. He made the necessary changes and the team saw an upward turn. However the way he handled the trade period last year was the final nail in his coffin. The treatment of Adam Treloar, was a return to his natural tendencies, pre 2017 review Bucks. The hangover caused by the handling of that trade period made the current playing group feel like disposable assets and ultimately fractured the trust between Bucks and the players.
He made a preliminary final in 2012 with a team that had hit its peak and was going through change.
I think people don’t quite understand that of the GF team, come 2013 Dale Thomas basically didn’t play a game, Ben Johnson retired, Didak, Ball and Jolly slowed considerably. Come 2014 Maxwell (Capt) retired, as did Ball, Jolly, Didak, Thomas gone, Heath Shaw gone and then Beams followed 2015. These guys were difficult to replace without recruiting A graders.

So that list turnover and without doubt he did have his short-comings as a new coach, proved very challenging.
 

evo

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The Pies lost a semi final by ten goals, with Treloar, Philips & Stephenson on the list. A rebuild was on the cards regardless. And I think we can finish crying for Ads. I mean really. He seems to have landed on his feet. His contract was paralyzing, while other clubs were landing the big fish.
My Pies mate and i have discussed this a few times when we're 6 pints deep. The last few seasons could have been a lot different if Richmond landed Treloar and Collingwood landed Lynch.
 

Angak

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He made a preliminary final in 2012 with a team that had hit its peak and was going through change.
I think people don’t quite understand that of the GF team, come 2013 Dale Thomas basically didn’t play a game, Ben Johnson retired, Didak, Ball and Jolly slowed considerably. Come 2014 Maxwell (Capt) retired, as did Ball, Jolly, Didak, Thomas gone, Heath Shaw gone and then Beams followed 2015. These guys were difficult to replace without recruiting A graders.

So that list turnover and without doubt he did have his short-comings as a new coach, proved very challenging.
A lot of these changes were fast tracked by Buckley because he couldn't manage the different personalities within the lockeroom. That was his failing. Perfect example being Shaw going to GWS and playing 150 as one of the best running halfbacks.
 

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