Opinion Buddy Vs Wayne Carey

[Churches]

The past few days Fox Sports and 7AFL have been bringing up this Duck V Buddy debate...

Can't honestly wrap my head around this, How can anyone who even knows a thing or two about footy pick Duck? This debate isn't even close

Wayne Carey was sensational no doubt, but Buddy is one of the greatest ever and he's done way more than Duck ever had. Buddy just overall has way more seasons of forward dominance and consistency. Played in more Grand Finals, and will likely become an 8 x All Australian (1 more than Duck) and his career is still far from finished. Obviously i'm somewhat biased and passionate towards Buddy, but overall, I can't see how Duck is even close. Duck had some great seasons and achieved a lot of individual awards, but overall Buddy in my opinion is the more consistent and dominant forward.

Thoughts??


Stats

Buddy

289 Games
917 Goals
Brownlow Votes - 151 (Should get around 12-15 more at this year's medal count)
2 x Premierships (2008, 2013)
7 x All Australian (2008, 2010-2012, 2014, 2016-2017)
4 x Coleman Medal
11 x Seasons with 50+ Goals


Duck

272 Games
727 Goals
Brownlow Votes - 127
2 x Premierships (1996, 1999)
7 x All Australian (1993–1996, 1998,1999–2000)
4 x All Australian Captain (1993, 1998, 1999–2000)
2 x APA MVP (Leigh Matthews Trophy)
7 x Seasons with 50+ Goals (0 x Coleman Medal)

 

[GotTheGoodes]

As I always say when these kinda player comparisons come up... Completely different eras. Different preperation, different rules (&/or interpretations), different opponents (shape/size etc), different grounds (condition) etc etc etc.

Carey had contemporaries like Plugger, Dunstall, Ablett etc too (thus impacting Colemans). Buddy hasn't had to "compete" with another once in a generation foward like Duck did.

Likewise, how many SOS or Fletcher like (hof type) kpd's has Buddy had to face in comparison to Duck?

All those things listed above (& more) could be argued for/against each. You'll never have a black & white result of who was "better" imo. It's just opinion.

It's so hard to compare. Just treat them as amazingly gifted footy players of their respective eras imo.

 

[Churches]

As I always say when these kinda player comparisons come up... Completely different eras. Different preperation, different rules (&/or interpretations), different opponents (shape/size etc), different grounds (condition) etc etc etc.

Carey had contemporaries like Plugger, Dunstall, Ablett etc too (thus impacting Colemans). Buddy hasn't had to "compete" with another once in a generation foward like Duck did.

Likewise, how many SOS or Fletcher like (hof type) kpd's has Buddy had to face in comlarison to Duck?

All those things listed above (& more) could be argued for/against each. You'll never have a black & white result of who was "better" imo. It's just opinion.

It's so hard to compare. Just treat them as amazingly gifted footy players of their respective eras imo.

This is all hypothetical... I totally understand it's different eras.

Buddy is playing in an age that isn't as suited for big forwards. Players these days are much more athletic and faster, which doesn't suit the style of a big forward. The modern game is now seeing a spread of goal kickers, and the midfielders and small forwards are kicking more goals than ever before.

Big forwards in Wayne Carey's day were absolute gold and a gem to their team. They were literally fed the ball on every occasion. A team like the Western Bulldogs who never really had a big solid forward kicking 60+ goals, wouldn't have been able to win back in Carey's day. This is why there are less big name forwards in today's game, which is what makes Buddy so impressive, because it's harder for big forwards now than it was in Carey's day.

I have to strongly disagree with you on the competing for colemans part;

Since 2007 when Buddy first emerged as a big time player, he has had to go against some great forwards - , Fevola, Jonathan Brown, Nick Riewoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Stevie J, Josh Kennedy, Jack Riewoldt are just some of many.

 

[sataris]

The greatest chf of all time has kicked less goals in an era where scoring was more rampant.

wat.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

This is all hypothetical... I totally understand it's different eras.

Buddy is playing in an age that isn't as suited for big forwards. Players these days are much more athletic and faster, which doesn't suit the style of a big forward. The modern game is now seeing a spread of goal kickers, and the midfielders are and small forwards are kicking more goals than ever before.

Big forwards in Wayne Carey's day were absolute gold and a gem to their team. They were literally fed the ball on every occasion. A team like the Western Bulldogs who never really had a big solid forward kicking 60+ goals, wouldn't have been able to win back in Carey's day. This is why there are less big name forwards in today's game, which is what makes Buddy so impressive, because it's harder for big forwards now than it was in Carey's day.

I have to strongly disagree with you on the competing for colemans part;

Since 2007 when Buddy first emerged as a big time player, he has had to go against some great forwards - , Fevola, Jonathan Brown, Nick Riewoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Stevie J, Josh Kennedy, Jack Riewoldt are just some of many.

Sure. I could then argue that defenders & setups have changed to the benefit then of a power forward. No longer are teams built around stopping such beasts...

This goes around & around in circles depending on who you like the look of better / have seen more of / supported / etc etc.

 

[CD__]

If Buddy has another 1 or 2 great seasons it is going to be very hard for anyone to argue that Carey is better.

Franklin’s longevity is remarkable.

 

[The King!]

The ducks peak was shorter

He was a champion though

 

[Kapanis]

This is all hypothetical... I totally understand it's different eras.

Buddy is playing in an age that isn't as suited for big forwards. Players these days are much more athletic and faster, which doesn't suit the style of a big forward. The modern game is now seeing a spread of goal kickers, and the midfielders and small forwards are kicking more goals than ever before.

Big forwards in Wayne Carey's day were absolute gold and a gem to their team. They were literally fed the ball on every occasion. A team like the Western Bulldogs who never really had a big solid forward kicking 60+ goals, wouldn't have been able to win back in Carey's day. This is why there are less big name forwards in today's game, which is what makes Buddy so impressive, because it's harder for big forwards now than it was in Carey's day.

I have to strongly disagree with you on the competing for colemans part;

Since 2007 when Buddy first emerged as a big time player, he has had to go against some great forwards - , Fevola, Jonathan Brown, Nick Riewoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Stevie J, Josh Kennedy, Jack Riewoldt are just some of many.

Don't know if you ever saw Carey play, he wasn't a big stay at home forward like a plugger, he was a true CHF and would play up the ground a lot. Like Buddy he would change the game in an instant, winning the game for his team time and time again. Both are incredible players playing in different eras. Saw Carey tear us apart live many times. We're just privledged to have Buddy playing for the swans let alone seeing what the guy does on the footy field week to week.

 

[AG]

Wow, seriously underrating Carey in the opening post. You say it's not even close, yet the stats you posted show it's about as close as you can get.

I can't provide much of an opinion since I only really started watching non Swans games in 97/98. Even then I didn't watch religiously until the early 2000's.

From what I saw of him, he was a phenomenal player who could turn a game on his own. I'd love watching Friday night football when North were playing during the late 90's simply because of him.

I'd vote Franklin because I've seen his whole career and he is only behind Ablett Jr as the best player I've seen (that may change if Franklin has one or two more seasons at his best).

 

[MarkP]

Happy to have either in the side.

The era's are different. The rules interpreted different.

Both are champions of the sport.

If people think Buddy cops it raw form the umps (and I do), and Dimma ditto for Jack R, then they would would have called the cops and fraud squad on what Carey had to put up with.

In any event I love sweet chilli chips but would never knock back sea salt. Both are awesome - why can't we have both?

To get off the fence I will pick Buddy - just because.

 

[Churches]

Wow, seriously underrating Carey in the opening post. You say it's not even close, yet the stats you posted show it's about as close as you can get.

I can't provide much of an opinion since I only really started watching non Swans games in 97/98. Even then I didn't watch religiously until the early 2000's.

From what I saw of him, he was a phenomenal player who could turn a game on his own. I'd love watching Friday night football when North were playing during the late 90's simply because of him.

I'd vote Franklin because I've seen his whole career and he is only behind Ablett Jr as the best player I've seen (that may change if Franklin has one or two more seasons at his best).

Not underrating Carey at all... Just saying how in comparison to Buddy, it's not close. You're even saying he's just behind Ablett Jr as your AFL goat , so not sure why you're arguing my previous post.

Anyways,

The stats aren't very close at all, Buddy has kicked 200 more goals in almost the same amount of games that Carey had played (200 goals is a LOT). Buddy has had at least 4-5 more seasons of solid consistency and high performance over Carey. I think those two stats alone really widen the gap.

A star player's ability to have longevity is arguably the greatest asset they can bring to a team. Really shows the work and conditioning behind the scenes big Bud puts in and the determination to be great.

Wayne Carey's 7 superstar seasons doesn't really match Buddy's 11. Not denying Carey wasn't a gun. but Buddy has done everything Carey has + More! lastly, Buddy is still in his prime or at least still playing at a very high level, his career is far from done and will only continue to achieve more.

Buddy is currently 31 and assuming he stays healthy and avoids injury, he should still continue doing what he's doing for at least another two seasons... Hopefully more.

 

[Churches]

Don't know if you ever saw Carey play, he wasn't a big stay at home forward like a plugger, he was a true CHF and would play up the ground a lot. Like Buddy he would change the game in an instant, winning the game for his team time and time again. Both are incredible players playing in different eras. Saw Carey tear us apart live many times. We're just privledged to have Buddy playing for the swans let alone seeing what the guy does on the footy field week to week.

I've seen plenty of Carey, this opinion is based on the Buddy v Carey debate, I'm not here to take away anything from either player.

Simply pointing out how the debate among the two of them isn't really that close. Buddy's overall accomplishments are far greater. 200+ goals and many more high performing seasons. Those two stats are really the big difference between the two. Buddy's had simply more seasons of dominance and his career is far from over.

 

[caesar88]

I mean they played in the same position. One has 700 and something goals, the other will finish with over a thousand.

 

[sataris]

I mean they played in the same position. One has 700 and something goals, the other will finish with over a thousand.

This.

A CHF job is to score goals. (Someone tell Sam Reid).

 

[AG]

This.

A CHF job is to score goals. (Someone tell Sam Reid).

I'd say the main job is to provide a marking target and a leading option when the ball is transitioning forward. CHF is probably the hardest position because your leading patterns and positioning can set up the attack. Goals are required but I'd say that's more relevant to the FF line.

 

[Punts]

Been bringing it up all week at work with all the footy boys and what is brought up is people forget how good Carey was

Seems Carey is still the king in some views

For me personally it’s carey just

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I don't get drawn into these discussions mostly, because there are so many aspects to a player's abilities that it's comparing apples with oranges.

Will say Carey had an extraordinary instinct for being where the ball was going to be.

And for sheer exuberant athletic freakishness, Bud has few peers.

 

[Swansujelly]

Comparing apples to oranges. Both champs in their own right.

 

[caesar88]

I'd say the main job is to provide a marking target and a leading option when the ball is transitioning forward. CHF is probably the hardest position because your leading patterns and positioning can set up the attack. Goals are required but I'd say that's more relevant to the FF line.

Doesn’t that make it all the more impressive that Buddy will have kicked over a thousand goals by the end of his career? He’s spent a fair chunk of his career on the 50 arc or even beyond it. We can laud Carey’s marking all we want but he still kicked 700 odd goals. Buddy, without being as dominant a mark, has kicked over 900! Imagine how many more he would’ve had if he was a dominant mark! He’s also done it in a different era where forwards don’t have anywhere near the time and space they did in the 90’s.

I think forget Carey. The only conversation Buddy should be in is the Lockett-Dunstall-Ablett trifecta.

 

[AG]

Doesn’t that make it all the more impressive that Buddy will have kicked over a thousand goals by the end of his career? He’s spent a fair chunk of his career on the 50 arc or even beyond it. We can laud Carey’s marking all we want but he still kicked 700 odd goals. Buddy, without being as dominant a mark, has kicked over 900! Imagine how many more he would’ve had if he was a dominant mark! He’s also done it in a different era where forwards don’t have anywhere near the time and space they did in the 90’s.

I think forget Carey. The only conversation Buddy should be in is the Lockett-Dunstall-Ablett trifecta.

It does, which is why I rate him higher (in addition to only seeing a few years of Carey) however I'm just trying to make the point that it is a close argument. There is more to being a forward than just goals and Carey was much better in the air, appeared to be slightly better at reading the play, more courageous and was a better on field leader.

Franklin is clearly the better athlete, applies more scoreboard pressure, has better foot skills around the ground and has had the longer peak at the top. Ultimately it's a combination of his ability to kick goals and longevity as a top line player which gives him the points in this argument. I wish I got to see more of Carey in the mid 90's though.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Apples, oranges and the third planet of Jupiter.

Carey was a wonderful CHF and Plugger the best FF in history.

Only Gary Ablett snr offers a fair comparison to Buddy's freakish skills

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

For some strange reason, the Bloods have had some of the best players to pull on a boot play for them.

Pratt, Nash, Clegg, Goldsmith, Skilton, Williams, Plugger, Goodes, Franklin

 

[adam waite]

This.

A CHF job is to score goals. (Someone tell Sam Reid).

Ahh, i remember Sam Reid. He is our casual employee!