Budget 2020

[Suspense]

Precisely

I still want someone to provide evidence it works.

It doesn't have to work - that's the beauty of it!
Just look at the terminology used: "the aim is..." and "the hope is..."

It's just failed right-wing economic policy re-packaged and disguised as "good intentions". As a wise man said: "Well, my family and I can't live in good intentions, Marge!"

 

[Caesar]

So nothing specific to back up your specific criticisms.

I’ve specifically referred to the reviews of the GFC stimulus programs, which are freely available. They all reference budget overruns, waste and mismanagement to various degrees.

All ancient history, anyway. As wasteful as Swan and Rudd were during the GFC I have no doubt Morrison et al are going to give them a run for their money.

So to summarise, you want better government, you want and better policies, you want less corruption and better transparency, you want less culture wars and theological bullshit, yada yada yada

Buuuuuuuuut, self interest

sigh

Well, yeah. But if it makes you feel any better I live in a safe seat and my opinion has never had an impact on the result of any election.

 

[QuietB]

Well, yeah. But if it makes you feel any better I live in a safe seat and my opinion has never had an impact on the result of any election.

Respect for your honesty. At some point we have to get past that don't we?

 

[Number37]

I’ve specifically referred to the reviews of the GFC stimulus programs, which are freely available. They all reference budget overruns, waste and mismanagement to various degrees.

I have never ever read a review of a govt program that didn't reference "budget overruns, waste and mismanagement to various degrees". EVER!

You conceded as much here:

I have absolutely no doubt that the same will be true of this package under Morrison and Frydenberg.

Your objectivity miraculously appears when assessing LNP programs and magically disappears when you hammer Labor/Rudd/Gillard.

The principles of good stewardship of taxpayer money still apply.

You only seem to apply these principles to Labor.

I didn't accuse you of being a plant. I pointed out that you were robotically repeating a party line, with the implication that you might want to think a bit more critically about the subject.

YES. Great idea.
Good job well done Angus.

 

[Caesar]

You only seem to apply these principles to Labor.

Happy for you to refer me to anywhere I’ve suggested that the Coalition should be measured by a different yardstick.

 

[Number37]

Happy for you to refer me to anywhere I’ve suggested that the Coalition should be measured by a different yardstick.

You mean like when you said...
Rudd wasted money, fullstop....
The LNP will do the same....but as long there's good stewardship...

Did you forget to add that qualifier to the Rudd waste?
Or did you deliberately leave it out?
Or were you implying that it doesn't matter how wasteful the LNP is, because they're always complying with principles of good stewardship.

Come on dude, every bit of economic success that we have had in this country for the last 30 years is a result of what Labor has done. Every single bit of it.
Everyone benefited from what Labor did. Everyone.
The LNP came in and changed everything for the sole purpose of benefitting a few.
Good stewardship of taxpayer money is not what the LNP is about.

 

[Caesar]

You mean like when you said...
Rudd wasted money, fullstop....
The LNP will do the same....but as long there's good stewardship...

That’s not what I said at all. I expect both sides of politics to exercise good stewardship of public money, and that includes avoiding excessive waste.

If the Coalition excessively wastes money during this financial crisis they will be just as culpable as the ALP were in the last one. I don’t know how to be any clearer about this.

I think we have pushed this discussion well past its reasonable limits so I will just leave it there.

 

[Chief]

I’ve specifically referred to the reviews of the GFC stimulus programs, which are freely available. They all reference budget overruns, waste and mismanagement to various degrees.

All ancient history, anyway. As wasteful as Swan and Rudd were during the GFC I have no doubt Morrison et al are going to give them a run for their money.

That's part and parcel of emergency stimulus IMO.

But governments should have such plans in place. "What do we do when an economic disaster happens?" And not IF, but WHEN. They seem to happen a lot.

 

[Number37]

That’s not what I said at all. I expect both sides of politics to exercise good stewardship of public money, and that includes avoiding excessive waste.

If the Coalition excessively wastes money during this financial crisis they will be just as culpable as the ALP were in the last one. I don’t know how to be any clearer about this.

I think we have pushed this discussion well past its reasonable limits so I will just leave it there.

Now you're trying to change what you said by changing it to "excessive" waste.


Labor bad...

The amount of waste under Rudd and Gillard was incredible

Labor really bad...

with many poorly planned, costed and implemented programs that generated huge inefficiencies and budget overruns

Labor really really bad...
FYI...Profligate was the word used to describe the spending of Costello and Howard not Rudd.

Profligate spending means debt that is bigger than it needs to be.

Coalition does it too

I have absolutely no doubt that the same will be true of this package under Morrison and Frydenberg.

But you have no problem with it

I have no problem with them going into debt to fight the recession, but a recession is not carte blanche to indiscriminately fling money around. The principles of good stewardship of taxpayer money still apply.

Because stewardship.
The good ole LNP BS...we are the bestest economic managers, even when we waste, our waste isn't waste because we're sooooo good at stewardship.

PERRRLEASE.

You wholly misrepresented the Rudd stimulus to make the same sloganistic point we've heard a thousands times before.
You won't justify your specific concerns other than to say "it's in the report"...another goto argument of LNP shills. "there's a report that says Labor bad".


Read the last 3 pages of this:

The 53 billion dollar question; was the 2009-2010 fiscal stimulus a good thing.

 

[Number37]

That’s not what I said at all. I expect both sides of politics to exercise good stewardship of public money, and that includes avoiding excessive waste.

If the Coalition excessively wastes money during this financial crisis they will be just as culpable as the ALP were in the last one. I don’t know how to be any clearer about this.

I think we have pushed this discussion well past its reasonable limits so I will just leave it there.

One final point...

The Rudd stimulus was designed entirely by Treasury.
Everyone that was involved with it has been on the record as saying that Rudd wasn't keen on it initially because he didn't want to lose his good stewardship credentials....but he heeded the expert advice.

 

[E Shed]

Shithead apraxia

Apraxia is what happens when the brain takes damage. The injury can be a function of kinetic trauma, a stroke, tumour or a disease like Alzheimer's or the Vid. If the damage is bad enough it can totally * with your ability to process incoming signals and respond appropriately. Some exciting...

aliensideboob.substack.com

 

[Baltimore Jack]

"We will produce a surplus in our first year and every year there after" - LNP 2013

Oops!!

 

[Power Raid]

The thing that shits me about the budget is the same thing we've been whingeing about for 13 years.........youth and those not born yet are paying for the lifestyles of the established.

No doubt stimulus is required to counter the man made economic shut down, from Covid (we should have opened much faster but that's another debate). However we s**t the bed under previous governments, over stimulated the economy rather than absorbing some pain during the GFC. Then we've had a decade of good times but again failed to get the books right, meaning we've gone into Covid in a very ordinary position.

Now we've taken another GFC type hit and what happens? We s**t the bed to preserve asset prices of the established. How did we do it, load up with debt which will be paid off by the youth too young to vote and those not even born yet.

I said the same thing in 2008, 12 years later it is clear now those not born yet in 2008 will be paying off Rudd's reckless stimulus and now add Gillards, Abbott's, Turnbull's and Morrison's legacy.



It's time for a wealth tax and have those with asset values propped up by stimulus help pay off the debt. Stimulus should be about jobs not assets.

 

[Jello_B]

The thing that shits me about the budget is the same thing we've been whingeing about for 13 years.........youth and those not born yet are paying for the lifestyles of the established.

No doubt stimulus is required to counter the man made economic shut down, from Covid (we should have opened much faster but that's another debate). However we sh*t the bed under previous governments, over stimulated the economy rather than absorbing some pain during the GFC. Then we've had a decade of good times but again failed to get the books right, meaning we've gone into Covid in a very ordinary position.

Now we've taken another GFC type hit and what happens? We sh*t the bed to preserve asset prices of the established. How did we do it, load up with debt which will be paid off by the youth too young to vote and those not even born yet.

I said the same thing in 2008, 12 years later it is clear now those not born yet in 2008 will be paying off Rudd's reckless stimulus and now add Gillards, Abbott's, Turnbull's and Morrison's legacy.



It's time for a wealth tax and have those with asset values propped up by stimulus help pay off the debt. Stimulus should be about jobs not assets.

Agree. We kick the can down the road again. House prices will keep going up, more affordability issues.
I actually now agree with Gough in a way on many of his thoughts which is unusual as I normally wouldn’t. The tax cuts would be better spent on investment programs. I stand to gain a fair bit out of the tax cuts but I’d happily give that up if the government would spend the money on local industries. For example, investing in becoming a green technology leader.

 

[Jello_B]

I’ve specifically referred to the reviews of the GFC stimulus programs, which are freely available. They all reference budget overruns, waste and mismanagement to various degrees.

All ancient history, anyway. As wasteful as Swan and Rudd were during the GFC I have no doubt Morrison et al are going to give them a run for their money.


Well, yeah. But if it makes you feel any better I live in a safe seat and my opinion has never had an impact on the result of any election.

Sorry from one of your early comments regarding the Government having gained the democratic agreement for the tax cuts. It is pretty hard to say that. I was voting Labor at the last election but when they released their policy on franking credits it was just too much of a hit to my family’s income I couldn’t do it.

 

[Seeds]

The recession being over this time next year is Trump like in delusion.

Someone doesnt know what a recession is do you? It will be over in q4 this year.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Someone doesnt know what a recession is do you? It will be over in q4 this year.

Given nothing in the budget will actually stimulate the economy that’s not likely

 

[Power Raid]

Agree. We kick the can down the road again. House prices will keep going up, more affordability issues.
I actually now agree with Gough in a way on many of his thoughts which is unusual as I normally wouldn’t. The tax cuts would be better spent on investment programs. I stand to gain a fair bit out of the tax cuts but I’d happily give that up if the government would spend the money on local industries. For example, investing in becoming a green technology leader.

Australia has invented a game changer technology

It is currently highly regulated under ANSO and the five eyes. If this remains Australian, rather than US or Canada, Australia's place in clean energy will be number 1.

The technology delivers not only on its own but can fix the fatal flaw of renewables.

 

[Power Raid]

I thought we were making billions from that renewable thingy you were spruiking that had income streams for two-five to life.
I'm still waiting for the big announcement on that.
Is it coming before or after the big announcement of this game changer technology?

What's your recommendation for peeps trying to burst through that glass ceiling, should they sell Mayfair and Park Lane?

You're responding to a post referring to the same technology

It's governed by ANSO regulations, meaning they can't disclose the technology outside of the five eyes. The Oz government have given them a grant to offset their inability to raise capital from traditional markets but they should have support to go to pilot stage by the end of November.

This technology reduces capex from $5b-6b down to $500m Margins increase from $6 to $400.

Then the flow on effect is solution that makes renewables work. Imagine that!!!!! Germany has wasted 30 years, $1.5 trillion and delivered ~500g CO2/ kwh. Meanwhile Australia and Canada look like they have cracked the problem and unlocking a cheap, reliable, safe and clean energy solution.

We should be proud of the efforts of Australians.

 

[Chief]

Meanwhile Australia and Canada look like they have cracked the problem and unlocking a cheap, reliable, safe and clean energy solution.

We should be proud of the efforts of Australians.

Why? We don’t know anything about it apart from your post.

 

[Power Raid]

Why? We don’t know anything about it apart from your post.

because the Oz government have determined the technology warranting controls

I don't have access to the technology detail but I do know guys authorised including washington, canberra and canada

This is a game changer but expect usual development times

 

[Chief]

because the Oz government have determined the technology warranting controls

I don't have access to the technology detail but I do know guys authorised including washington, canberra and canada

This is a game changer but expect usual development times

Is it called Regeneron?

 

[Power Raid]

Is it called Regeneron?

no

the company had to take down their website and very limited info out other than their name

it was born out of a food technology business that followed a technology development by accident

 

[Jello_B]

Australia has invented a game changer technology

It is currently highly regulated under ANSO and the five eyes. If this remains Australian, rather than US or Canada, Australia's place in clean energy will be number 1.

The technology delivers not only on its own but can fix the fatal flaw of renewables.

If you can PM me the ASX code that would be great
In all seriousness though this would be great, I work in energy and it’s an excellent field for disruption.

 

[Power Raid]

If the technology can't be disclosed how is anyone supposed to (A) acccess it (B) invest in it (c) use it?

the same way all of these technologies advance and become commercialised

but yes, it is challenging......."invest in this black box" is always a hard sell