Autopsy Bulldogs 103 - Carlton 100. A win, but a loss at the same time?

[gangsta deluxe]

That first quarter by English was incredible, especially his work around the ground. If that's just a glimpse of his future output, we have a gun on our hands

Without English we lose that game by 30 points. His best with us as a player.

 

[Mattdougie]

Geelong must have to draft him also drafted Joel Hamling, then WE picked them both up.

Give him a chance mate, ease up and check Jonathon Brown's early form.

J Brown was never timid to the contest

I see that and it screams NOT GONNA MAKE IT IMO.

21 year old who knows he is lucky to get this chance should be running through walls mate. Not touching the footy isn’t the worst thing in the world but not wanting it is a problem thy is rarely solved

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Hopefully the new president does what is necessary and brings in assistants that challenge him. He has ideas that are genius but ones that are pure stupidity. And as such things go the line between genius and stupidity is paper thin.

Blokes like Monty who’ll back themselves even if Bevo doesn’t like it (I was a huge hater of Monty at the time but now...).

I don’t understand this. How long will it last having assistants pulling different ways to what Bevo is ?
Clubs need everyone buying in to what’s being sold. That goes for players, coaches, support staff etc.

Sorry, GD, but the whole needing someone to challenge the head coach is a crock of shite.
Once you have support staff not buying in and going up against the head coach, may as well fold it all up and start again.

Why do you think Monty left ? Couldn’t have someone like that unsettling the whole joint.
Was obviously identified and he was on his way. Monty knew it was what had to happen too.

 

[Yojimbo]

J Brown was never timid to the contest

I see that and it screams NOT GONNA MAKE IT IMO.

21 year old who knows he is lucky to get this chance should be running through walls mate. Not touching the footy isn’t the worst thing in the world but not wanting it is a problem thy is rarely solved

Not baiting you at all mate, but played two kicked two, Casboult is the new L.Jizz tough opponent.

 

[ossie_21]

Dickson is declining but he’s getting unfairly roasted IMO. Definitely wasn’t the worst out there, kicked a couple, gave one off & had 7 score involvements which was more than Bont. Didn’t go missing & was involved in the play even if he didn’t end up with the ball, we had a few invisible players out there

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Hopefully the new president does what is necessary and brings in assistants that challenge him. He has ideas that are genius but ones that are pure stupidity. And as such things go the line between genius and stupidity is paper thin.

Blokes like Monty who’ll back themselves even if Bevo doesn’t like it (I was a huge hater of Monty at the time but now...).

Good assistants bring strong ideas and have very good ability to communicate what the head coach wants to the players.

What they don’t do is go head to head with the coach and challenge what he’s doing. Just doesn’t happen. From AFL down to suburban league.

 

[DognBones]

Bailey Dale is really testing my faith. A few years ago I thought he could become a key player for us at wing/half forward. He was a good kick, well-balanced and could even take a good grab overhead. I had high hopes, even giving him a complimentary status in my posts' signature. Now I see a player who seems bereft of confidence and lacking any sense of vigour. I'm not sure if there are any further chances for him but I'll keep the faith for a couple more months.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

I don’t understand this. How long will it last having assistants pulling different ways to what Bevo is ?
Clubs need everyone buying in to what’s being sold. That goes for players, coaches, support staff etc.

Sorry, GD, but the whole needing someone to challenge the head coach is a crock of ****e.
Once you have support staff not buying in and going up against the head coach, may as well fold it all up and start again.

Why do you think Monty left ? Couldn’t have someone like that unsettling the whole joint.
Was obviously identified and he was on his way. Monty knew it was what had to happen too.

I honestly see a distinction between undermining a colleague and being able to give them honest feedback. You can buy in to an overall approach and question idiosyncrasies that prove problematic (certain positional issues, and his bizarre issues with the ruck). He clearly doesn’t have someone that can do that at the moment.

One of the things that has been characteristic of the turn arounds that Buckley and Hardwick had was being less controlling and taking solid advice. They both clearly credited this with the resurgence of their teams. They described being more relaxed and open. Bevo had that in the first two years but it is gone. In both instances there were coaches with senior experience installed near them that didn’t pull punches.

They don’t need to undermine him but saying that playing a bloke like Gardner, straight away and in the ruck might not be the best idea is simply essential.

Bevo is unconventional - but convention sometimes works and he should have that voice persuasively suggesting why some tried and true approaches to player management and game day strategy should be implemented.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Bailey Dale is really testing my faith. A few years ago I thought he could become a key player for us at wing/half forward. He was a good kick, well-balanced and could even take a good grab overhead. I had high hopes, even giving him a complimentary status in my posts' signature. Now I see a player who seems bereft of confidence and lacking any sense of vigour. I'm not sure if there are any further chances for him but I'll keep the faith for a couple more months.

Same, DognBones. Seems we have more faith in Dale's abilities then he does in himself. I was left feeling pretty flat by his effort last night, not angry, just depressed. All his skills mean for nothing if he won't make the effort to get involved in the game. Seemed perfectly fine staying out of sight until home time.

I don't know if footballers do things like the invisible man, as i played soccer professionally, but i remember having an invisible man following me in about 75% of training matches. Personally, i would make him Hunters invisible man. He needs to learn how to find the ball, not be so bloody passive about it.

 

[gordo2016]

Libba has been cleared of any ligament damage. Will have athrosopic surgery and my guess is he will miss about 3 weeks.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I honestly see a distinction between undermining a colleague and being able to give them honest feedback. You can buy in to an overall approach and question idiosyncrasies that prove problematic (certain positional issues, and his bizarre issues with the ruck). He clearly doesn’t have someone that can do that at the moment.

One of the things that has been characteristic of the turn arounds that Buckley and Hardwick had was being less controlling and taking solid advice. They both clearly credited this with the resurgence of their teams. They described being more relaxed and open. Bevo had that in the first two years but it is gone. In both instances there were coaches with senior experience installed near them that didn’t pull punches.

They don’t need to undermine him but saying that playing a bloke like Gardner, straight away and in the ruck might not be the best idea is simply essential.

Bevo is unconventional - but convention sometimes works and he should have that voice persuasively suggesting why some tried and true approaches to player management and game day strategy should be implemented.

How do we know these things aren’t discussed in the selection meetings and game reviews between the coaches ? How do we know Gardner playing wasn’t suggested by an assistant and then backed in by Bev ?
You and others are implying that things are just straight up black and white.
Bev is stubborn, he doesn’t listen to assistants, the assistants are no good, no one suggests other ideas to Bev and so on...

Who’s to say these things do or don’t happen ?
I also find it hard to believe that Bevo is wrong, everyone in here is right and that new assistants will communicate to Bevo what everyone on here thinks is right.
It seems a bit silly, doesn’t it ?
He’s wrong, we’re right and all the future assistants will agree with us. Mmmm yeah, not sure about that.


One thing I’m certain of is that what does go on behind closed doors wouldn’t be known by many outside of the club and I’m tipping what’s been suggested on here over the last 12+ months in regards to what Bev does and should be/shouldn’t be doing is further from the mark than closer.

As for the other coaches, there’s a real difference between Bevo and the situations around Bucks and Hardwick. Both struggled for a long time and, only from what I can gather, lacked the skill set to get the teams playing well. They benefited from having smart, experienced assistants around them because they needed some help. Both have admitted it.
I look at that as neither being an outstanding coach, with both needing smart footballing brains around them to succeed.

Bucks wasn’t a coaches arshole when he started. There’s a clip of him during his first year, after the Pies prelim loss, he stumbled and mumbled his way through the post game talk and it was completely amateur. If Eddie didn’t have to save his pride after booting Malthouse for Bucks, then Bucks would’ve been gone already.
The 7 years it took them to come good, with a number of assistants being brought in, that’s showing he hasn’t been an outstanding head coach.
Having said that, he’s obviously gotten better over time.

Dimma slightly different, but he also needed talented football brains around him. Carracella turned that joint around. Outstanding midfield coach with great ideas.
The whole set up works well probably due to Dimma being a better front who communicates well and has the respect of the players. One things for sure though Dimmas coaching ability didn’t win them the flag.

So I see their situation as differently to Bev’s so called situation.
He’s a very smart coach who has a premiership and two coaches associations coach of the year gongs. He IS the smart footballing brain that was brought in by the pies and the Tigers.

I’m not arguing that we don’t need a change up with assistants as I do think it’s getting stale with the same group there. I just don’t buy in to the whole coach needs to be challenged or have someone stand up to him. New ideas are good and when they’re brought in everyone benefits but if Bevo is at the point where someone needs to come in re do what he’s doing then it’s time for him to walk and imo that times definitely not now.

 

[BRWB]

Libba has been cleared of any ligament damage. Will have athrosopic surgery and my guess is he will miss about 3 weeks.

Thks



Gee Libba has been stiff

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Same, DognBones. Seems we have more faith in Dale's abilities then he does in himself. I was left feeling pretty flat by his effort last night, not angry, just depressed. All his skills mean for nothing if he won't make the effort to get involved in the game. Seemed perfectly fine staying out of sight until home time.

I don't know if footballers do things like the invisible man, as i played soccer professionally, but i remember having an invisible man following me in about 75% of training matches. Personally, i would make him Hunters invisible man. He needs to learn how to find the ball, not be so bloody passive about it.

Not the most attractive, played soccer professionally, barracks for the dogs. I think i’ve got it...your Tim Cahill ?

One like = confirmation

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Libba has been cleared of any ligament damage. Will have athrosopic surgery and my guess is he will miss about 3 weeks.

best outcome possible really, had my heart rate pumping thanks to that awkward change of direction he made, i feared for the worst.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Not sure what the point of versatility is when we're so hesitant to use it. Took ages for Bont to go forward to shake the tag and for Naughton to go back to stop the easy goals. Not to mention Gardner is a swingman as well and we didn't try him. Daniel should've swapped with Suckling in the second half as well, it was clear he was going to have a shocker. Can't just be the runners because it took three quarters to make a change. To ready to make long term moves and not short term ones.

 

[mattwa]

Macrae needs more props too he was huge on cripps completely shut him down and got off the chain. Also baz was quiet but his goal and poise under pressure to kick it was huge

 

[Bazzas Lovechild]

Libba has been cleared of any ligament damage. Will have athrosopic surgery and my guess is he will miss about 3 weeks.

Thanks Peter

 

[perro_loco]

I am happy. Thought it was a great contest with a gun midfield rotation down and had some enormous growth from Lipinski and English. Dunkley, Macrae, Bontempelli, Suckling and Daniel showed their class, while Hunter, JJ and Wood showed their experience at critical junctions to help us get across the line against an underrated team.

With Wallis, Morris and Gowers to return shortly, Schache, Richards and West pressing for selection and Jong an unknown quantity, there is much to like and I have faith that there are great times ahead.

I agree to some extent. First and parts of second quarter were good. third quarter and second half of last quarter were awful. good to close the game and win in the end. English was very good, Dunkley was excellent and Smith is going to be a gun. fantastic pick. Daniel just absolutely frustrates me as he creates goals for the opposition on average twice a game. bonty was excellent but tends to disappear. happy to take the points, but we are really far off from finals. i was expecting alot more this season, but the coaching has been woeful and bevo needs to be reviewed together with the rest of the team at the end of the season. bring a couple of key talls and pay them. poach, steal them, i don't care. we need quality talls.

 

[DogDays]

I’m happy with the win. Would have loved for us to win by more but the Blues have improved and modern football involves difficult to stop momentum swings.

I’m proud. The boys held on when clearly the momentum was with the blues in the last quarter. I thought Lippy was sensational, the Bonts first quarter may have been the most inspiring football I’ve ever seen, and Tim English showed why we all have faith in him. It was his best game by far.

Dunkley has gone to another level, he is an absolute gun and we should be doing everything we can to sign him long term.

I also think people aren’t giving enough weight to the fact Libba got injured and was doing an important job in the midfield that we couldn’t seem to cover.

All in all - a good win, hard fought against a team with momentum and playing much better footy than their ladder position suggests.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Sentinel]

Haven't seen it mentioned here yet - Libba after the game giving it back to a few sooky Carlton supporters in the crowd

The reaction on Twitter by some more sensitive Blues fans is fairly hilarious.

 

[Braybrook Son]

I don’t understand this. How long will it last having assistants pulling different ways to what Bevo is ?
Clubs need everyone buying in to what’s being sold. That goes for players, coaches, support staff etc.

Sorry, GD, but the whole needing someone to challenge the head coach is a crock of ****e.
Once you have support staff not buying in and going up against the head coach, may as well fold it all up and start again.

Why do you think Monty left ? Couldn’t have someone like that unsettling the whole joint.
Was obviously identified and he was on his way. Monty knew it was what had to happen too.

So you think no one should question the head coach when he makes obvious crazy decisions?

 

[Hard Ball Get]

How do we know these things aren’t discussed in the selection meetings and game reviews between the coaches ? How do we know Gardner playing wasn’t suggested by an assistant and then backed in by Bev ?
You and others are implying that things are just straight up black and white.
Bev is stubborn, he doesn’t listen to assistants, the assistants are no good, no one suggests other ideas to Bev and so on...

Who’s to say these things do or don’t happen ?
I also find it hard to believe that Bevo is wrong, everyone in here is right and that new assistants will communicate to Bevo what everyone on here thinks is right.
It seems a bit silly, doesn’t it ?
He’s wrong, we’re right and all the future assistants will agree with us. Mmmm yeah, not sure about that.


One thing I’m certain of is that what does go on behind closed doors wouldn’t be known by many outside of the club and I’m tipping what’s been suggested on here over the last 12+ months in regards to what Bev does and should be/shouldn’t be doing is further from the mark than closer.

As for the other coaches, there’s a real difference between Bevo and the situations around Bucks and Hardwick. Both struggled for a long time and, only from what I can gather, lacked the skill set to get the teams playing well. They benefited from having smart, experienced assistants around them because they needed some help. Both have admitted it.
I look at that as neither being an outstanding coach, with both needing smart footballing brains around them to succeed.

Bucks wasn’t a coaches arshole when he started. There’s a clip of him during his first year, after the Pies prelim loss, he stumbled and mumbled his way through the post game talk and it was completely amateur. If Eddie didn’t have to save his pride after booting Malthouse for Bucks, then Bucks would’ve been gone already.
The 7 years it took them to come good, with a number of assistants being brought in, that’s showing he hasn’t been an outstanding head coach.
Having said that, he’s obviously gotten better over time.

Dimma slightly different, but he also needed talented football brains around him. Carracella turned that joint around. Outstanding midfield coach with great ideas.
The whole set up works well probably due to Dimma being a better front who communicates well and has the respect of the players. One things for sure though Dimmas coaching ability didn’t win them the flag.

So I see their situation as differently to Bev’s so called situation.
He’s a very smart coach who has a premiership and two coaches associations coach of the year gongs. He IS the smart footballing brain that was brought in by the pies and the Tigers.

I’m not arguing that we don’t need a change up with assistants as I do think it’s getting stale with the same group there. I just don’t buy in to the whole coach needs to be challenged or have someone stand up to him. New ideas are good and when they’re brought in everyone benefits but if Bevo is at the point where someone needs to come in re do what he’s doing then it’s time for him to walk and imo that times definitely not now.

Bev is an outstanding coach. It's a shame few here realise just how good he is.

 

[Mattdougie]

So you think no one should question the head coach when he makes obvious crazy decisions?

I’m lucky enough to have been coached by and sat and watched some extraordinarily good coaches at many levels and have coached myself at a low level and the only people who would say that assistants aren’t there to challenge and disagree with a senior coach, as part of their duties, has obviously never coached themselves at any level.

If the assistants are simply there to carry out everything and only te things the senior coach requires then you are destined to fail. One man is not a team

 

[Mattdougie]

Bev is an outstanding coach. It's a shame few here realise just how good he is.

And what is the proof for that statement ?

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing but I’d like you to back up that statement.

 

[Braybrook Son]

I’m lucky enough to have been coached by and sat and watched some extraordinarily good coaches at many levels and have coached myself at a low level and the only people who would say that assistants aren’t there to challenge and disagree with a senior coach, as part of their duties, has obviously ever coached themselves at any level.

If the assistants are simply there to carry out everything and only te things the senior coach requires then you are destined to fail. One man is not a team

Well said mate, couldn’t agree more