Analysis Bulldogs 2020 - What to expect?

[RichLeMonde]

They are the biggest threat to Richmond IMO.

They do match up particularly well against us..

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Que?

You suggested they need to finish above Collingwood, Brisbane and Geelong to make top 4, but they could make top 4 by finishing above every team bar the one's you specified. Richmond have the same challenges for 2020.

I think we are right in the mix, but form and fitness will determine that.

 

[flipper83]

Our problem is we're a confidence team but we also like playing with our backs to the wall which makes sustained performance difficult. Hopefully as the list matures they get past this.

 

[RichLeMonde]

You suggested they need to finish above Collingwood, Brisbane and Geelong to make top 4, but they could make top 4 by finishing above every team bar the one's you specified. Richmond have the same challenges for 2020.

I think we are right in the mix, but form and fitness will determine that.

I thought that’s what you meant. It’s just incomprehensible to me that anyone could think they’ll finish higher than WC, GWS or Richmond.

 

[csharp]

I thought that’s what you meant. It’s just incomprehensible to me that anyone could think they’ll finish higher than WC, GWS or Richmond.

Were you asking yourself the same question after 2016?

Reality check: things change between years.

 

[Giant Pete]

Our problem is we're a confidence team but we also like playing with our backs to the wall which makes sustained performance difficult. Hopefully as the list matures they get past this.

Personally I don’t think your coach helped when he talked your team up the week leading into the elimination final. Followed that up by complaining about how physical the Giants were a couple of weeks later. Poor form.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Were you asking yourself the same question after 2016?

Reality check: things change between years.

I know. That's why in my OP I said it will be a different story for the doggies in 2021, and predicted they'll win a final this year. They'll improve this year, but so will WC (Kelly), GWS (Conigs, Ward etc), and arguably Richmond (improvement of Stack, Pickett, etc, only Houli really getting old), and Brisbane (young list). Coll'wood with no injuries could too. Only Geelong look set to really slide.

 

[Yojimbo]

Personally I don’t think your coach helped when he talked your team up the week leading into the elimination final. Followed that up by complaining about how physical the Giants were a couple of weeks later. Poor form.

I look forward to the press conference where any coach (insert name) comes out before a game and says the
boys have got no chance on the weekend we are going to get pumped dry, no lubrication. He should have
known by listening to your song that you're "Bigger than the rest" and anticipated a physical mauling of epic
proportions, you added seven players from our win in round 22 and Leon Cameron coached well for one of
the rare occasions in 2019 by deflating "The Bubble Of Excellence". Look it's an odd experience to see the
colours of your team in a Grand Final parade, but a great one. I hope GWS learn some lessons from their
Grand Final loss and stop drafting midfielders for other teams.

 

[flipper83]

Personally I don’t think your coach helped when he talked your team up the week leading into the elimination final. Followed that up by complaining about how physical the Giants were a couple of weeks later. Poor form.

To be honest I was nervous when I heard that press conference. Also the selection of Young at fullback for a cutthroat final was a bit of a head scratcher.
Also let's not sugar coat things it wasn't physicality, it was eye gouging and dirty tactics.

 

[4THAWN]

I know I myself wouldn't be too overly surprised to see the dogs under perform next year. It's pretty clear that most outsiders rate this group highly and think they should improve in 2020, and probably improve again in 2021 etc. But in the AFL there are no sure bets and just like Melbourne in 2019, highly rated teams can flop if a few things go wrong.

My question might be what does the long-term backline look like? There are still a number of players in the dogs best 22/close to who are going to be 30ish soon and do not offer much in the form of long term solutions. Suckling, Duryea, Trengove, and even Easton Wood are all getting towards the back end of their careers. I have questions about what does the backline look like in 2022 (when most people think they'll be competing), as no doubt having a strong defense will be key for the success of this dogs team.

 

[Mofra]

My question might be what does the long-term backline look like? There are still a number of players in the dogs best 22/close to who are going to be 30ish soon and do not offer much in the form of long term solutions. Suckling, Duryea, Trengove, and even Easton Wood are all getting towards the back end of their careers. I have questions about what does the backline look like in 2022 (when most people think they'll be competing), as no doubt having a strong defense will be key for the success of this dogs team.

Wood has had a lot of hamstring issues over the journey so most of us don't expect him to have great longevity.
Suckling is a bonus for one more year, potential retirement at the end of 2020.
Duryea is likely to miss the first round due injury.
Trengove is basically our back-up ruck and sometimes FB, he's probably just outside our bst 22 with Keath a CHB lock and the MC favouring Cordy.

We are absolutely stacked for backline talent to replace team with though. Lewis Young is developing nicely, Lachie Young is an excellent tall rebounder, Ed Richards plays better football there but didn't get the chance last year due to team needs, Crozier is a lock, JJ still has a few years left, and the MC look set to continue playing Daniel there.
That's without considering Bailey Williams who played really solid football from the HB line too.

 

[4THAWN]

Wood has had a lot of hamstring issues over the journey so most of us don't expect him to have great longevity.
Suckling is a bonus for one more year, potential retirement at the end of 2020.
Duryea is likely to miss the first round due injury.
Trengove is basically our back-up ruck and sometimes FB, he's probably just outside our bst 22 with Keath a CHB lock and the MC favouring Cordy.

We are absolutely stacked for backline talent to replace team with though. Lewis Young is developing nicely, Lachie Young is an excellent tall rebounder, Ed Richards plays better football there but didn't get the chance last year due to team needs, Crozier is a lock, JJ still has a few years left, and the MC look set to continue playing Daniel there.
That's without considering Bailey Williams who played really solid football from the HB line too.

I can definitely see where you replace half back flanker, small-medium defenders but I guess it's the key positions I'm more so talking about.

Keath should be a good replacement at CHB

Keath/Cordy/Young is a decent tall defensive set-up, although I can't say I know a heap about cordy/young.

It would be fair to say however that Keath/Cordy/Young is a fair bit off say Grimes/Astbury/Vlaustin or Mcgovern/Barrass/Hurn though.

 

[Mofra]

I can definitely see where you replace half back flanker, small-medium defenders but I guess it's the key positions I'm more so talking about.

Keath should be a good replacement at CHB

Keath/Cordy/Young is a decent tall defensive set-up, although I can't say I know a heap about cordy/young.

It would be fair to say however that Keath/Cordy/Young is a fair bit off say Grimes/Astbury/Vlaustin or Mcgovern/Barrass/Hurn though.

Our last flag we had Hamling and Fletcher Roberts as our KPD duo, with Morris in support. Hamling has gone on and done very well at Freo, but Fletch was a battler at best (now delisted) and Morris was playing with two fractured vertebrae so had some restriction in mobility.

If your system is good enough your defence works.We tend to place a high premium on intercept marking so Wood/Crozier/La Young/Keath can all work well for us. Trengove and Cordy play more as 'stoppers' so the MC may only choose one of them in any round if Lewis Young keeps improving.

Our best KPD happens to be set to hold down CHF this year.

 

[Giant Pete]

I look forward to the press conference where any coach (insert name) comes out before a game and says the
boys have got no chance on the weekend we are going to get pumped dry, no lubrication. He should have
known by listening to your song that you're "Bigger than the rest" and anticipated a physical mauling of epic
proportions, you added seven players from our win in round 22 and Leon Cameron coached well for one of
the rare occasions in 2019 by deflating "The Bubble Of Excellence". Look it's an odd experience to see the
colours of your team in a Grand Final parade, but a great one. I hope GWS learn some lessons from their
Grand Final loss and stop drafting midfielders for other teams.

It must be hard for you, living in such a black and white world.

 

[Yojimbo]

It must be hard for you, living in such a black and white world.

It would be a more colourful world if I could understand what the hell you were talking about. I don't hate on
GWS which is unusual for a Bulldogs supporter, I was glad you made the Grand Final and I wish your
recruiting staff would stop recruiting midfielders they don't really need or can actually play anywhere, but
in the NEAFL team. It was a shame you were banged up and chose to play injured blokes, but hopefully you
will learn from it and come back hungrier. Coaches (insert name) say dumb s**t when they lose or blame
Michael Talia it's an emotional game.

 

[Evolved1]

Richmond
WC
GWS
Collingwood
Geelong
Brisbane
WB


Top 4 would be overachieving
5-8 par
9th and below underachieving

 

[csharp]

I know. That's why in my OP I said it will be a different story for the doggies in 2021, and predicted they'll win a final this year. They'll improve this year, but so will WC (Kelly), GWS (Conigs, Ward etc), and arguably Richmond (improvement of Stack, Pickett, etc, only Houli really getting old), and Brisbane (young list). Coll'wood with no injuries could too. Only Geelong look set to really slide.

Why are you making predictions two seasons ahead? lol.
Should we have been predicting 2018 as the year for Richmond at the conclusion of 2016? Right as they're in the dumpster?

We still have half our team that won the flag in 2016, many of which are now in their prime (Macrae, Bont, Hunter, etc). We finished last season very strongly, minus one bad final on enemy territory, and have since added Bruce, Keath and Weightman, all of whom address glaring weaknesses. There's no logic in suggesting we can't challenge in 2020, but can in 2021.

only Houli really getting old)

and Riewoldt
and Cotchin
and Edwards
Then you have Martin, Grimes and Astbury all turning 29 this year.

Those are some pretty important pivots getting on a bit, hey?

 

[Doggy]

That is still one more good player than Essendon at any rate.

Dogs have the potential to either finish top 4, if not top 2, or miss the eight all together, one of the most naturally talented lists (collectively) in the league,but they need to stop losing to bottom rung teams on their home turf (such as us and the Suns last year, for example)

Going to keep a keen eye out on that Tim English, If he develops and improves as hoped/expected in 2020, The Doggies will be a serious player, although Naughton will be a massive loss for them.

Back onto my original comment, I find it incredible how an Essendon fan can slander the Dogs, given they gave The Bombers the mother of all hidings last season (that first half in that game by The Dons was country/pub league level thrashing bad)

Naughton won't miss a game

 

[RichLeMonde]

Why are you making predictions two seasons ahead? lol.
Should we have been predicting 2018 as the year for Richmond at the conclusion of 2016? Right as they're in the dumpster?

We still have half our team that won the flag in 2016, many of which are now in their prime (Macrae, Bont, Hunter, etc). We finished last season very strongly, minus one bad final on enemy territory, and have since added Bruce, Keath and Weightman, all of whom address glaring weaknesses. There's no logic in suggesting we can't challenge in 2020, but can in 2021.

and Riewoldt
and Cotchin
and Edwards
Then you have Martin, Grimes and Astbury all turning 29 this year.

Those are some pretty important pivots getting on a bit, hey?

Why are you making predictions two seasons ahead? lol.
Should we have been predicting 2018 as the year for Richmond at the conclusion of 2016? Right as they're in the dumpster?

We still have half our team that won the flag in 2016, many of which are now in their prime (Macrae, Bont, Hunter, etc). We finished last season very strongly, minus one bad final on enemy territory, and have since added Bruce, Keath and Weightman, all of whom address glaring weaknesses. There's no logic in suggesting we can't challenge in 2020, but can in 2021.

and Riewoldt
and Cotchin
and Edwards
Then you have Martin, Grimes and Astbury all turning 29 this year.

Those are some pretty important pivots getting on a bit, hey?

So you've managed to convince yourself that a group of core players being aged 28 is evidence that a team will slide in that year? Wow. Whatever helps you sleep. Edwards' body is in good nick, and Riewoldt, despite his knee last year, is durable. I think the improvement of Stack, Pickett, Castagna, Soldo, Graham etc (all under 25 except Pickett) pretty easily makes up for Jack and Edwards both being 31 during season 2020 (both 32 in October).

What's wrong with making predictions 2 seasons ahead? It's what list managers do all the time. Doggies do have a nice mix, with players in their prime, as you mention, but players like Naughton and Dunkley, good as they are now, will be significantly better in a couple of years.

I just hope the Tiges don't play you guys in finals, as you seem to have our measure.

 

[dylan93]

Recent predictions I've done I've got them finishing 5th. One of the most solid and deepest midfields in the comp.

Starting to rate their forward and defence structures too.

At the least they'll finish just outside the top 8.

 

[csharp]

So you've managed to convince yourself that a group of core players being aged 28 is evidence that a team will slide in that year? Wow. Whatever helps you sleep. Edwards' body is in good nick, and Riewoldt, despite his knee last year, is durable. I think the improvement of Stack, Pickett, Castagna, Soldo, Graham etc (all under 25 except Pickett) pretty easily makes up for Jack and Edwards both being 31 during season 2020 (both 32 in October).

No, I don't think you will slide this year, I'm just pointing out that Houli certainly isn't your only player getting old, which is what you seemed to suggest.

What's wrong with making predictions 2 seasons ahead? It's what list managers do all the time. Doggies do have a nice mix, with players in their prime, as you mention, but players like Naughton and Dunkley, good as they are now, will be significantly better in a couple of years.

I just hope the Tiges don't play you guys in finals, as you seem to have our measure.

Because there's no logic in claiming we'll be challenging in 2021, but not 2020. Much of our core talent is at their peak, and we've just brought in two experienced players to address two glaring weaknesses in our team.

Our age bracket is not too dissimilar to Geelong 2007, Collingwood 2010, your team in 2017. Our current team is clearly better than our 2016 team too.

 

[JerryRapidRiser]

7th-13th. Just entirely average in reality but people always seem to overhype their players after a decent game or two.

They just aren't a great side (even worse off field )

 

[RichLeMonde]

I'm just pointing out that Houli certainly isn't your only player getting old, which is what you seemed to suggest.

Yes, all players at Richmond are indeed subject to the process of human ageing.

Because there's no logic in claiming we'll be challenging in 2021, but not 2020. Much of our core talent is at their peak, and we've just brought in two experienced players to address two glaring weaknesses in our team.

There is a logic. In 2 years' time your core of talent will still be in their peak - neither better or worse than they will be this year - you'll still have the players you brought in to fill gaps, and your young guns will be better then, than they will be this year. It's the improvement of players now aged 23 and under that will make you more of a contender in 2021. Not really a controversial opinion.

 

[flipper83]

7th-13th. Just entirely average in reality but people always seem to overhype their players after a decent game or two.

They just aren't a great side (even worse off field )

Perhaps we should get collective minds in.

 

[JerryRapidRiser]

Perhaps we should get collective minds in.

Probably. That or start an AA meeting.