Autopsy Bulldogs lose 127-113 to Geelong. Flat

[Dogs_r_barking]

We don’t seem to have any friends in the media now Stephens has gone, King is probably the only one who sticks up for us. Jay Clark outed himself as Geelong supporter, probably accounts for why he keeps banging on about BS for a Brownlow.

It would be the ultimate slap in the face to Bont to have a turnover merchant win one, while he has missed out to Wines in 2021, and Neale in his undeserved win with games he was poor in getting three votes.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

It is a bit ridiculous though the disadvantage that we have to bear almost every year in regards to this. When you consider that each team doesn’t play every other team home and away every year, we only play 6 teams twice, so every year there will be 11 teams that we only play once and that game could be either at Marvel/Ballarat or at their home ground. Where you get drawn in that game makes a difference. If you get that game away against really good teams and you only get the bottom teams at home then this can impact on your record against the top teams.

Over the past 12 years excluding the Covid impacted year of 2021, the Bulldogs have played at GMHBA stadium 10 out of 11 years. In that time we have played Geelong twice in a season in 5 out of 11 years, so in those years we played both at Geelong and at Marvel in 4 seasons and the other game was played in Adelaide last year. In the other 6 years we only played them once and yet 5 out of 6 that one game was at Geelong. Only in 2018 was that single game for the season at Marvel. Even last year there was effectively only one game that could be scheduled at either Marvel or at Geelong but of course it was at Geelong. How is that considered fair?

So basically almost every year we either have to play them twice or at a minimum we have to play them at Geelong. We rarely if ever get to only play them once and have that game not be at their home ground. It is just another way in which the draw is inherently unfair. No wonder we struggle to beat these bastards when we seem to always have to play them at Geelong. I imagine North Melbourne and StKilda have a similar issue. The AFL really need to address these sorts of problems that make the competition so unfair for certain teams.

I bet the AFL argue that we don’t pull in a big enough crowd as a home game, meanwhile Port Barrel stadium is never full. Something rotten at HQ when it comes to Geelong.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

We were crucified against Fremantle for it too ...

So does this mean we can no longer be accused of being umpires’ pets?

 

[grassman75]

One reason why they have always had a whinge about playing a final down at that shit hole

They should play all their home games and if they qualify, at a minimum their first final. After the first week all VIC finals should be at the G.

Screw this money making by the afl. Can’t have it both ways

 

[Fossie 32]

And even some of Geelong's kicks were a good 25m and called "not 15".
Don't they test prospective umpires for spatial awareness?

They have a specialist coach for that department

 

[Bulldogs85]

Coaches Votes

Geelong v Western Bulldogs​

9 Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

(GEEL)
6 Max Holmes (GEEL)
5 Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

(WB)
5 Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

(GEEL)
4 Matthew Kennedy (WB)
1 Shannon Neale (GEEL)

 

[MaxiBont]

Coaches Votes

Geelong v Western Bulldogs​

9 Jeremy Cameron (GEEL)
6 Max Holmes (GEEL)
5 Ed Richards (WB)
5 Bailey Smith (GEEL)
4 Matthew Kennedy (WB)
1 Shannon Neale (GEEL)

Not sure if it would be possible, but would be so funny if Chris Scott gave Bailey 5 and Bevo gave him 0

 

[grassman75]

Coaches Votes

Geelong v Western Bulldogs​

9 Jeremy Cameron (GEEL)
6 Max Holmes (GEEL)
5 Ed Richards (WB)
5 Bailey Smith (GEEL)
4 Matthew Kennedy (WB)
1 Shannon Neale (GEEL)

I’m tipping Bevo gave Smith nothing but I can’t work out the possible spread here

 

[Bulldogs85]

Not sure if it would be possible, but would be so funny if Chris Scott gave Bailey 5 and Bevo gave him 0

Bevo talked up Max Holmes after the game in the press conference so he would of given max some votes

 

[Bulldogs85]

I’m tipping Bevo gave Smith nothing but I can’t work out the possible spread here

Bevo would of given Max Holmes some votes he talked him up after the game

 

[stevieg1969]

Not sure if it would be possible, but would be so funny if Chris Scott gave Bailey 5 and Bevo gave him 0

I’m tipping Bevo gave Smith nothing but I can’t work out the possible spread here

Could be:
Bevo
5 Cameron
4 Holmes
3 Kennedy
2 Richards
1 Neale

Brad’s Twin
5 Smith
4 Cameron
3 Richards
2 Holmes
1 Kennedy

 

[grassman75]

Not sure if it would be possible, but would be so funny if Chris Scott gave Bailey 5 and Bevo gave him 0

That’s what I’m thinking

Scott Cameron 5, Kennedy 4, Smith 3, Ed 2, Holmes 1
Bevo Holmes 5, Cameron 4, Ed 3, Smith 2, Neale 1

But I’m prob wrong

 

[grassman75]

Could be:
Bevo
5 Cameron
4 Holmes
3 Kennedy
2 Richards
1 Neale

Brad’s Twin
5 Smith
4 Cameron
3 Richards
2 Holmes
1 Kennedy

That looks better than what i said.

 

[bigdog54]

Coaches Votes

Geelong v Western Bulldogs​

9 Jeremy Cameron (GEEL)
6 Max Holmes (GEEL)
5 Ed Richards (WB)
5 Bailey Smith (GEEL)
4 Matthew Kennedy (WB)
1 Shannon Neale (GEEL)

Thought smith was pretty average, despite getting a bit of the footy. Not sure how he gets votes from either coach.

 

[grassman75]

Thought smith was pretty average, despite getting a bit of the footy. Not sure how he gets votes from either coach.

That’s what i reckon….watch him still poll Brownlow votes though

Maybe Scott did give him 5 and Bevo 0, but it seems unlikely. Holmes was the best Geel mid and Cameron the best forward.

Can def make a case for Bevo giving Kennedy 4 and Ed 3

 

[Mojorisin]

I’m tipping Bevo gave Smith nothing but I can’t work out the possible spread here

Scott: Smith 5, Cameron 4, Richards 3, Holmes 2, Kennedy 1.
Bevo: Cameron 5, Holmes 4, Kennedy 3, Richards 2, Neale 1

 

[bigdog54]

That’s what i reckon….watch him still poll Brownlow votes though

Maybe Scott did give him 5 and Bevo 0, but it seems unlikely. Holmes was the best Geel mid and Cameron the best forward.

Can def make a case for Bevo giving Kennedy 4 and Ed 3

I said this after the game. 30 touches in a winning side generally equals 3 votes with the 3 fools, regardless of impact or how effect.

 

[bigdog54]

Scott: Smith 5, Cameron 4, Richards 3, Holmes 2, Kennedy 1.
Bevo: Cameron 5, Holmes 4, Kennedy 3, Richards 2, Neale 1

No way any coach gave smith 5 votes for that game.

 

[Mojorisin]

No way any coach gave smith 5 votes for that game.

Was just pointing out the fact it is possible.

 

[grassman75]

I said this after the game. 30 touches in a winning side generally equals 3 votes with the 3 fools, regardless of impact or how effect.

It should be Holmes and Jezza for the 3 & 2 and one of Richards or Kennedy for the 1 i reckon. Will be interesting to see

 

[Arkangel]

If anyone's interested, I made a couple of little graphs showing (a) how many times we've played Geelong at different venues over the past 40 games (dating back to when Docklands became our home ground), and (b) how many times each team has been the home team during the same period (bizarrely, Geelong had two "home" games against us at Docklands in 2006 and 2007, winning them both). In each graph, the x-axis counts up backward in time, such that 5 on the axis indicates the most recent 5 matches, 10 indicates the most recent 10 matches, and so on. As you can see from the first graph, we have to go back about 30 matches to find a point where we've played the same number of games at Docklands as Kardinia Park; and there the crossover only happens because of Geelong's bizarre "home" games at Docklands. (I'm guessing this was part of some AFL deal to play a certain number of games at the stadium, though in 2006 there was a 5-week period where Geelong had no games at Kardinia, so perhaps something was going on with regard to ground redevelopment at the time.)

I'd be interested to see what analogous figures for matchups with other teams look like by comparison, to get an idea of how much of an outlier this is, but don't have the time to make them at the moment.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Are we really complaining about playing away games at the opposition's home ground?

 

[dogwatch]

Are we really complaining about playing away games at the opposition's home ground?

No. I think the issue is that Geelong get noticeably more KP games against us than we get Marvel games against them. It is sometimes masked by having a nominal home game which is played at a neutral venue (eg Gather Round, Covid).

For instance in the last five years we have played them at KP 5 times and Docklands twice. Does that sound equitable?

As has been noted many times, Collingwood have not played at Geelong this century. We understand why. It's because lots of people go to Collingwood games, more than can fit into KP. The average attendance for H&A games between Collingwood and Geelong since 1997 is over 62,000. So the chance of a 60,000 crowd can't be passed up if the alternative is 35,000 at KP.

But the AFL still has a quota of games to fill at KP. So who plays there to fill the Collingwood-shaped void? It's clubs like the WB, North, Port, Fremantle, the Suns, GWS, St Kilda. And only rarely a bigger Melbourne-based club like Richmond or Carlton.

KP is a notoriously hard ground to play at because of its unique dimensions and because it is the only Victorian ground where the home club also trains at that same ground. So does the fact that we play there pretty much every year but Collingwood never play there sound like an equitable draw?

It doesn't to me.

 

[Arkangel]

No. I think the issue is that Geelong get noticeably more KP games against us than we get Marvel games against them. It is sometimes masked by having a nominal home game which is played at a neutral venue (eg Gather Round, Covid).

For instance in the last five years we have played them at KP 5 times and Docklands twice. Does that sound equitable?

As has been noted many times, Collingwood have not played at Geelong this century. We understand why. It's because lots of people go to Collingwood games, more than can fit into KP. The average attendance for H&A games between Collingwood and Geelong since 1997 is over 62,000. So the chance of a 60,000 crowd can't be passed up if the alternative is 35,000 at KP.

But the AFL still has a quota of games to fill at KP. So who plays there to fill the Collingwood-shaped void? It's clubs like the WB, North, Port, Fremantle, the Suns, GWS, St Kilda. And only rarely a bigger Melbourne-based club like Richmond or Carlton.

KP is a notoriously hard ground to play at because of its unique dimensions and because it is the only Victorian ground where the home club also trains at that same ground. So does the fact that we play there pretty much every year but Collingwood never play there sound like an equitable draw?

It doesn't to me.

Right---given it's generally acknowledged that a home game (at one's home ground) is worth about a 2-goal advantage---on average---playing games more frequently at KP than at our home ground puts us at a disadvantage.

To make that concrete, consider the 2021 season. We had one game against Geelong, at Kardinia Park, which we lost following a goal after the siren. If that game hadn't been at KP, there's a reasonable argument to be made that the result would've been reversed. Ceteris paribus that would have left us finishing the season in 3rd place and Geelong in 6th, rather than the other way round. There's no way of knowing whether the finals series would've ended differently had we made the top 4, but it does illustrate the possible consequences of an uneven fixture.

Hopefully having our one game against Geelong at KP again this year doesn't cost us a top 4 position…

 

[Mr. Walker]

. Ceteris paribus that would have left us finishing the season in 3rd place and Geelong in 6th, rather than the other way round.

All other things being equal I think post 552 in a thread is was too early to introduce Latin. Just my opinion.