Autopsy Bulldogs win a heart stopper vs Eagles

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Some great commentary in the last quarter.
Darlings bullshit free "Its a free kick to...THE EAGLES.And its jack darling CMON. EAGLES Jack Darling. I dont have a clue what that free was for but I bloody love it. Most crucial kick of the game. CMON. Oh hes shanked it out wide"
Ol mate chimes in "oh FFS"
LOL

I decided to listen to the whole thing because it was good for a laugh and I don't regret a second. Some more quality quotes

"Long handball to Gaff, he tries to fist in on, g'day to Andy Brayshaw if you're watching."
"... Too soon..."
"I don't think it's too soon mate, it's been two years, come on."

About the score review at half time
"Again we've got some old Nokia-brick footage, they can't get high resolution camers for some reason. I would suggest it's because they don't have the money given they're playing the Grand Final in Queensland."

"There's Sheed again-"
"Throw."
"None of that Miguel."
"Sorry."

"Oh my goodness Oscar Allen has just killed a man. We've just witnessed on live television Oscar Allen win the UFC championship."
"He did very well to not get him high there."
"I don't know that he didn't get him high..."
"Well McLean did his best to get taken high."

"Let's have a bit of advantage please? They're gonna call it back?! They're going to call it back!"
Sees the replay of the free
"Hmmm. Probably wasn't there to be honest."
And then less than 20 seconds later
"We never doubt the umpires on this show, do we Miguel? That's just a fine call." (I can't tell if sarcasm or nuffie but either way I found it funny)

"Sick of this Wallis fella, I tell you what."
"Wallis running out the back like a seagull."
"They are a team full of them. Because you look at Macrae... um, whose there other one? But yeah, absolute bastards."

"Jack Darling with a sliding mark! He says settle down boys, settle down campaigners, I will have a kick after the siren to register a score... Ahhh, he's managed to bang that one straight into the man on the mark."

"That's a good sign. That's an even better sign for rugby league in Queensland because that was a throw. Josh Bruce has just taken a man's head off, nothing doing, the ball is out of bounds. That could've been about 4 or 5 or 6 whistles."

I think they grew on me. Them being so one-eyed made it a lot more fun.

 

[BEaston]

I decided to listen to the whole thing because it was good for a laugh and I don't regret a second. Some more quality quotes

"Long handball to Gaff, he tries to fist in on, g'day to Andy Brayshaw if you're watching."
"... Too soon..."
"I don't think it's too soon mate, it's been two years, come on."

About the score review at half time
"Again we've got some old Nokia-brick footage, they can't get high resolution camers for some reason. I would suggest it's because they don't have the money given they're playing the Grand Final in Queensland."

"There's Sheed again-"
"Throw."
"None of that Miguel."
"Sorry."

"Oh my goodness Oscar Allen has just killed a man. We've just witnessed on live television Oscar Allen win the UFC championship."
"He did very well to not get him high there."
"I don't know that he didn't get him high..."
"Well McLean did his best to get taken high."

"Let's have a bit of advantage please? They're gonna call it back?! They're going to call it back!"
Sees the replay of the free
"Hmmm. Probably wasn't there to be honest."
And then less than 20 seconds later
"We never doubt the umpires on this show, do we Miguel? That's just a fine call." (I can't tell if sarcasm or nuffie but either way I found it funny)

"Sick of this Wallis fella, I tell you what."
"Wallis running out the back like a seagull."
"They are a team full of them. Because you look at Macrae... um, whose there other one? But yeah, absolute bastards."

"Jack Darling with a sliding mark! He says settle down boys, settle down campaigners, I will have a kick after the siren to register a score... Ahhh, he's managed to bang that one straight into the man on the mark."

"That's a good sign. That's an even better sign for rugby league in Queensland because that was a throw. Josh Bruce has just taken a man's head off, nothing doing, the ball is out of bounds. That could've been about 4 or 5 or 6 whistles."

I think they grew on me. Them being so one-eyed made it a lot more fun.

I reckon team based commentary is awesome. Some of the team colour commentators in NBA are fantastic, add a lot to the entertainment of it.

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

Hasn't Darling had some problems with concussions?

I'm not looking for excuses ... yet it could be a factor.

Some players never change their approach to the game (eg Liam Picken) but others get quite rattled - both literally and figuratively. Koschitske is a good example.

Fair point, never thought about that. I'm not sure if his first career instance of (for want of a better term) "hearing footsteps" pre-dated any concussions, or started after an initial concussion. I wonder how something like that would tie in with the CTE discussion and analysis as well, given the side-effects several retired players have described.

 

[MADDOGMAN]

LIBBER ! His hands his last qtr

Good night !

Lads thanks for cheering us up a little we needed it here in Victoria.

All you VICS keep ya heads up!
Hope to see all you people getting back to normal ASAP.
I’ll be at the Adelaide oval on Sunday flying the flag for us against the HAWKS.
GO DOGGIES !!!

 

[dogwatch]

Fair point, never thought about that. I'm not sure if his first career instance of (for want of a better term) "hearing footsteps" pre-dated any concussions, or started after an initial concussion. I wonder how something like that would tie in with the CTE discussion and analysis as well, given the side-effects several retired players have described.

Yes some players are just crazy brave (J Brown, Picken, N Riewoldt, etc) perhaps to their own detriment.

If I'd been shaken up like that a couple of times I'm not sure I'd have the same disregard for my own safety.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Throw in Hunter & Hayes then.

Hmm....

 

[ManOfClay]

I decided to listen to the whole thing because it was good for a laugh and I don't regret a second. Some more quality quotes

"Long handball to Gaff, he tries to fist in on, g'day to Andy Brayshaw if you're watching."
"... Too soon..."
"I don't think it's too soon mate, it's been two years, come on."

About the score review at half time
"Again we've got some old Nokia-brick footage, they can't get high resolution camers for some reason. I would suggest it's because they don't have the money given they're playing the Grand Final in Queensland."

"There's Sheed again-"
"Throw."
"None of that Miguel."
"Sorry."

"Oh my goodness Oscar Allen has just killed a man. We've just witnessed on live television Oscar Allen win the UFC championship."
"He did very well to not get him high there."
"I don't know that he didn't get him high..."
"Well McLean did his best to get taken high."

"Let's have a bit of advantage please? They're gonna call it back?! They're going to call it back!"
Sees the replay of the free
"Hmmm. Probably wasn't there to be honest."
And then less than 20 seconds later
"We never doubt the umpires on this show, do we Miguel? That's just a fine call." (I can't tell if sarcasm or nuffie but either way I found it funny)

"Sick of this Wallis fella, I tell you what."
"Wallis running out the back like a seagull."
"They are a team full of them. Because you look at Macrae... um, whose there other one? But yeah, absolute bastards."

"Jack Darling with a sliding mark! He says settle down boys, settle down campaigners, I will have a kick after the siren to register a score... Ahhh, he's managed to bang that one straight into the man on the mark."

"That's a good sign. That's an even better sign for rugby league in Queensland because that was a throw. Josh Bruce has just taken a man's head off, nothing doing, the ball is out of bounds. That could've been about 4 or 5 or 6 whistles."

I think they grew on me. Them being so one-eyed made it a lot more fun.

It’s brilliant stuff. I love some schadenfraude. Well done by them to get that though, they’d laugh at us if it was on the other foot.

 

[Scott Tracy]

Just wanted to post this on here considering it relates to a West Coast defeat. Four years ago today my Father and I flew to Perth to go see us play in the Elimination final. We did not expect the outcome that amazing game would have. For the rest of my life I can say that I saw the game that started everything.
Good memories, now lets focus on winning the next two so we can do the same thing .

 

[Pugz89]

Yes they would have... Still a really weird opening post. Bev didnt miss the set shots.
The negativity in this place is incredible, honestly, I hope it's just a footy thing, because its perpetual grumpiness and its nauseating to be around.

Smile a little. We have a young up and coming team, a tremendous coach (enough with the arrogance talk, seriously) and an incredible captain. Enjoy it once and a while.

I don't think its just the footy that is contributing to the mood tbh. I think many are just struggling in general after the year that has been so far. On the flipside, I did have a smile on my face after we managed to hang on to the win. Could be the type of win that launches us into a hot run with improved confidence.

 

[Martyn_30_]

Something that suffers as a result of footy’s anti intellectual/ anti analytical culture is the understanding of deeper layerings involved in a game of footy.

this year we’ve been smashed in the ruck. So everyone moans. Our scores from clearances differential is up there with the best in the league. So as easy as it is to react emotionally when Bont is in the ruck and he gives away a free, remember the big picture and the big dataset. That’s how we need to be formulating our decisions.

equally with the Schache Bruce comparisons. Many people see Bruce drop a sitter or miss a goal and you make the simple mathematical derivation. “If that is Schache, he marks it, we kick the goal”

it’s not as simple as that though. Let’s say Schache does kick 3 instead of Bruce’s 0. How many less goals do we kick from ground ball contests Schache doesn’t create by preventing intercepts or simply contesting the ground ball? How many opposition goals are created from easy rebound?

it’s not as simple as the most basic thing you see. Now Bruce makes it an easier decision by being less of a lemon than he was last night, and let’s hope he does in the future because last night he probably did undo enough hard work to cost us on that decision.

Bevo does grit his teeth through ugly scenes because he’s using a deeper dataset to make his decisions.

in an ideal world, Bruce kicks his goals, Schache provides better presence/ team defence and English is a better ruckman. In the real world, Bevo is playing okay at the game of Whack-a-mole

Quite a few posters on here were saying the same sort of thing about Ayce Cordy five years ago. The reality is Bruce has played all bar one game and Scache's played two, so there's no real comparison that can be made. With Schache in the team in the second half of last year the side was the number one attack in the comp. Even in the final the forward line was decent the ball just didn't get down there.

 

[Zgope1]

Quite a few posters on here were saying the same sort of thing about Ayce Cordy five years ago. The reality is Bruce has played all bar one game and Scache's played two, so there's no real comparison that can be made. With Schache in the team in the second half of last year the side was the number one attack in the comp. Even in the final the forward line was decent the ball just didn't get down there.

I’ll just get you to point out who was putting forward score from clearance differentials back in the Ayce Cordy days. If you can’t... we’ll you may as well have not bothered posting there.

On your Schache point, I think I addressed the matter with nuance and at least pointed out that Bruce may almost be not doing enough to justify playing him ahead of Schache.

So your post has been pissy and not constructive for the conversation. Ignoring people’s valid points is good when you’re the president of the US but not on this great forum we call the Western Bulldogs bf board.

 

[doggies ftw]

Something that suffers as a result of footy’s anti intellectual/ anti analytical culture is the understanding of deeper layerings involved in a game of footy.

this year we’ve been smashed in the ruck. So everyone moans. Our scores from clearances differential is up there with the best in the league. So as easy as it is to react emotionally when Bont is in the ruck and he gives away a free, remember the big picture and the big dataset. That’s how we need to be formulating our decisions.

equally with the Schache Bruce comparisons. Many people see Bruce drop a sitter or miss a goal and you make the simple mathematical derivation. “If that is Schache, he marks it, we kick the goal”

it’s not as simple as that though. Let’s say Schache does kick 3 instead of Bruce’s 0. How many less goals do we kick from ground ball contests Schache doesn’t create by preventing intercepts or simply contesting the ground ball? How many opposition goals are created from easy rebound?

it’s not as simple as the most basic thing you see. Now Bruce makes it an easier decision by being less of a lemon than he was last night, and let’s hope he does in the future because last night he probably did undo enough hard work to cost us on that decision.

Bevo does grit his teeth through ugly scenes because he’s using a deeper dataset to make his decisions.

in an ideal world, Bruce kicks his goals, Schache provides better presence/ team defence and English is a better ruckman. In the real world, Bevo is playing okay at the game of Whack-a-mole

How many goals does Bruce really create from bringing the ball to ground? 2? If we’re lucky. How many goals would Schache create by being a good forward and splitting defenders like he did very well towards the end of the year + the 1-2 he’d kick that Bruce is literally incapable of kicking himself. How many times do we have to watch Bruce and Naughty get in each other’s way? Would we have this problem with Schache? I don’t want Bruce anywhere near Naughty. Schache brings the ball to ground fine, he doesn’t look like he’s going 120% at every contest like Bruce does but he still covers a * load more ground and honestly provides just as much in the air. Bruce’s concrete hands aren’t exactly a strength of his, if he gets to his best then yes there’s a spot for him but it’s an absolute embarrassment to everyone right now that he’s still in this side. He’s literally pathetic at all aspects of the game.

 

[Zgope1]

How many goals does Bruce really create from bringing the ball to ground? 2? If we’re lucky. How many goals would Schache create by being a good forward and splitting defenders like he did very well towards the end of the year + the 1-2 he’d kick that Bruce is literally incapable of kicking himself. How many times do we have to watch Bruce and Naughty get in each other’s way? Would we have this problem with Schache? I don’t want Bruce anywhere near Naughty. Schache brings the ball to ground fine, he doesn’t look like he’s going 120% at every contest like Bruce does but he still covers a fu** load more ground and honestly provides just as much in the air. Bruce’s concrete hands aren’t exactly a strength of his, if he gets to his best then yes there’s a spot for him but it’s an absolute embarrassment to everyone right now that he’s still in this side. He’s literally pathetic at all aspects of the game.

I don’t totally disagree with you but I don’t totally agree with you. Bruce is a legit double agent. Everything he does that involves him disposing of the ball goes to crap.

it’s not just about bringing it to ground to create goals. It’s about preventing turnovers via intercept mark and preventing fast rebounds.


Schache isn’t an “every time“ guy effort wise. He beat up on an awful North and then played the worst game a non Gowers/Gardner dog can play against Carlton in what was our most dishonest performance of the real season. We made them look like us on the rebound.

Now he has shown good signs at AFL level before and with how bad Bruce has been he might be the better option, but no, I don’t think it’s an obvious easy call to make. This week might be the week the ledger tips for Bev. Bev has seen him training so we’ll see.

The bloke we really need who I think can be a star is Bailey Dale

 

[threenewpadlocks]

equally with the Schache Bruce comparisons. Many people see Bruce drop a sitter or miss a goal and you make the simple mathematical derivation. “If that is Schache, he marks it, we kick the goal”

it’s not as simple as that though. Let’s say Schache does kick 3 instead of Bruce’s 0. How many less goals do we kick from ground ball contests Schache doesn’t create by preventing intercepts or simply contesting the ground ball? How many opposition goals are created from easy rebound?

it’s not as simple as the most basic thing you see. Now Bruce makes it an easier decision by being less of a lemon than he was last night, and let’s hope he does in the future because last night he probably did undo enough hard work to cost us on that decision.

Bevo does grit his teeth through ugly scenes because he’s using a deeper dataset to make his decisions.

in an ideal world, Bruce kicks his goals, Schache provides better presence/ team defence and English is a better ruckman. In the real world, Bevo is playing okay at the game of Whack-a-mole

I'm a big rap for holistic understanding of footy and looking at intangibles, but dropped marks and consistent missed shots by and far outweigh any element of that element of play. Structure is important, but pales in comparison to fundamental mistakes when you interact with the ball, whether it be dropped marks or missed shots that Bruce is struggling.

The fact that Schache is a reliable set shot for goal is clearly a factor in all of this.

The difference between a good and bad player, midfielder, etc. might be somewhere in the area of 4-5 points per game.

Schache going at say 65% and Bruce at 40% on 3 shots per game also makes up that difference if they get the same amount of shots. (0.65*3*7 = 13.65, 0.4*3*7 = 8.4 = 5.25 points difference)

Essentailly if you can back Schache to nail his shots accurately that Bruce has had an opportunity to in every game since he kicked six against North, the swing effect of that more than makes up for the 10x a game of intangibles and knock ons and etc. that might be worth half a point each that Bruce does.

This isn't to have a crack massively at Bruce as he was a good shot at the Saints and was a reliable key forward for 3-4 years there and I'm not crticising the contract or the fact that we've kept selecting him (to this point, as each new week is ugly). But lets not over-analyse the value of his game, the fact that he's missing shots and dropping marks is clearly extremely harmful right now.

 

[Anja_Nees]

If it were up to me I would pick Schache until Bruce shows he can clunk them and kick straight. I wouldn’t have traded for an experienced key forward either with Naughton and Schache in good form, with JUH incoming.

Then again I’m also not a premiership coach.

Schache looks great when it goes his way but can be completely invisible when it doesn’t. Bruce is certainly at least visibly awful when it goes against him I guess.

It’s pretty obvious to all that Bruce is playing well below expectations. Later in the game he showed some ok signs and he might return to his Saints form with a solid preseason. I guess we just have to hold our breath.

 

[Zgope1]

I'm a big rap for holistic understanding of footy and looking at intangibles, but dropped marks and consistent missed shots by and far outweigh any element of that element of play. Structure is important, but pales in comparison to fundamental mistakes when you interact with the ball, whether it be dropped marks or missed shots that Bruce is struggling.

The fact that Schache is a reliable set shot for goal is clearly a factor in all of this.

The difference between a good and bad player, midfielder, etc. might be somewhere in the area of 4-5 points per game.

Schache going at say 65% and Bruce at 40% on 3 shots per game also makes up that difference if they get the same amount of shots. (0.65*3*7 = 13.65, 0.4*3*7 = 8.4 = 5.25 points difference)

Essentailly if you can back Schache to nail his shots accurately that Bruce has had an opportunity to in every game since he kicked six against North, the swing effect of that more than makes up for the 10x a game of intangibles and knock ons and etc. that might be worth half a point each that Bruce does.

This isn't to have a crack massively at Bruce as he was a good shot at the Saints and was a reliable key forward for 3-4 years there and I'm not crticising the contract or the fact that we've kept selecting him (to this point, as each new week is ugly). But lets not over-analyse the value of his game, the fact that he's missing shots and dropping marks is clearly extremely harmful right now.

I think I’ve been pretty clear in outlining that Bruce is quite possibly undoing what good work he does

 

[Anja_Nees]

I think I’ve been pretty clear in outlining that Bruce is quite possibly undoing what good work he does

I suppose Bevo is often less than transparent about what he values. If hitting packs, leading key defenders away and putting in defensive effort matters most, maybe Bruce is going ok in his eyes.

Let’s be honest, if he contributed even a goal and a few marks a week reliably then we would not be complaining much. I really hope a switch flicks for him in the coming weeks.

 

[Munnez]

In a normal season with normal breaks between games I'm pretty happy with English as main ruck, but would still like a backup ruck. I want to see Sweet get a chance, but a genuine dual position player is more likely to get on our park. Ben Kelly in the draft/PSD would be amazing.

Callum Coleman Jones is a dual position player with a couple of years development that could possibly be had on the cheap after his transgression.
Think Bevo could be good at helping chart a new path for the young bloke!

 

[weltschmerz]

Callum Coleman Jones is a dual position player with a couple of years development that could possibly be had on the cheap after his transgression.
Think Bevo could be good at helping chart a new path for the young bloke!

I'd wondered that. I think our club is a bit more relaxed than Richmond with a pretty good culture. Might be good for him to have a fresh start.

 

[Munnez]

I for one am glad that finally we showed a bit of steely determination after the poor first qrter to claw our way back.
And find a way to grind out a win even when things aren't going perfectly for us on the night. Not too many games you could say that about this year or last for that matter.
Seems like the group might be beginning to mature, I think it is a good example that we can fight back and have the resolve to want to do it.

 

[In doG we Trust]

Some thoughts on a few players:

• Good game from the Bont but over recent weeks he has completely missed with some of his long low kicks i50. These can be so damaging, especially against a strong intercepting team like WCE, but he turned it over a few times tonight. Disappointing.
• Dunkley was a completely different player when allowed to play his usual midfield role (apart from 4 ruck contests). I hope Bev has learned the lesson: Don't play your AA-squad midfielders as sacrificial lambs in the ruck.
• Pleased to see Bevo can find a place for 3 tallish defenders. Cordy was a bit rusty - or something - tonight but he'll be better for the run.
• Gardner is surely not getting omitted any time soon. The qualities that Gia described in him a few weeks back are starting to come to the fore now that he has been granted a few games to find his feet. We all thought Gia must have been looking at a different player but maybe he had a point. Gardner has good speed and reasonable agility which is what you want in a tall defender (remember Kieran Collins?) He's not a complete replacement for Dale Morris (nobody is) but if he can continue his rate of improvement and increasingly trust his judgement he might yet become a regular senior player.
• The commentators barely mentioned Toby McLean - he's not fashionable or eye-catching - but I thought he was terrific tonight. He equalled Dunkley for a game-high 9 tackles. Involved in lots of scores and was constantly in the heat of the action. Surely he has secured his place in the side for the rest of 2020.
• I sort of liked Josh Bruce's game despite the laughable ways he found to stuff things up. He really had a go, did some important things took a couple of good grabs, etc etc. I think he is coming back to form and confidence at the right time of year. Don't underestimate the importance of the big body either. I'd like to see Schache get another game sometime but he doesn't have the physical presence of Bruce (yet).
• Tim English must have appreciated the longer break as well as the absence of NicNat. That was a match-saving last 5 minutes from him - a little more like the English we saw in the earlier games this year. I'm convinced he'll still become a good ruckman. He won't peak for another 5 years yet.
• Surely Ed Richards gets tapped on the shoulder this week. It's not fair on him, his teammates or the players he is keeping out. He can still come good just like Williams and McLean have done. There's plenty of time. He just needs to ply his trade at a lower level for a while. I don't accept that he's the only quick player we have left. That seems to be the last straw being clutched at by those of us trying to understand why he's still getting picked.
• I don't think I'd have picked Hayes and Roarke Smith this week but they did OK. To improve our list we need some classy users and accumulators and these two might have to make way, but at least we know what we'll get with them - consistent effort. Nice clutch goal from Roarke too.
• He may have been robbed of a couple of free kicks but Aaron Naughton got a lesson tonight from Barrass. No shame in that - Barrass is a quality player. He let himself down with some casual shots at goal too. We need to stamp that practice out really quickly. Take your time son. You usually learn more from having your colours lowered than from a handy 2-3 goal game. I hope he's taken the lesson on board. It's easy to forget that he's only played one and a half seasons as a forward in his life.
• Caleb Daniel held us together in that first half. That probably earned him a bit more respect and close attention from the Eagles in the second half so he wasn't as prolific after the break, but without that first half effort we might have lost touch.

Great post

 

[perro_loco]

Richards for De Koening?

Richard's for Liam Jones at FF. BRING BACK LIAM JONES!!!

 

[bobs head soup]

Watching the game again, the move that turned everything around was to stop bombing the ball and feeding their interceptors. A similar tactic worked equally well against Geelong.

Whilst minimising their turnover potential, looking for shallow entries repeatedly does limit your ability to create scoring shots, unless you have hard running, natural forwards who can offer long leads and repeat leads.

Wallis did this once or twice but the others didn't quite provide the option.

For this reason (amongst others) I'd like to see Schache come in for Lloyd this week. Not sure what Lloyd offers that Schache doesn't.

 

[Dazb86]

Gardner could actually become a decent defender given time.

Has the agression needed. Needs to spend all off season learning how to defend the high ball.

 

[doggies ftw]

Gardner could actually become a decent defender given time.

Has the agression needed. Needs to spend all off season learning how to defend the high ball.

When it’s easy, I.e he’s 20m off the drop of the ball and all he has to do is cut across and affect the contest his attributes are quite good. It’s just his positioning that is so poor right now. Hopefully it’s just a confidence thing that he doesn’t back his own ability and that’s why he constantly gets caught out worrying about his man and getting caught in no mans land.