List Mgmt. Burning Issues

[tigs2010]

I would if they were the quality of Griffiths. He has far more upside than Michie.

Also, on your point, yes, I would trade Sam Lonergan for one of Fraser McInnes or Tanner Smith.

I didn't mean one of our delistable mids. Would you trade McDonough for them?

Edit: Both McInnes and Smith have an impact and can actually find the footy already despite being 2 & 3 years younger than Griff respectively.

 

[tigs2010]

Haha that's very tricky.

It's an interesting one. But they'd be viewing Michie much like we view McDonough. Talented midfielders who can play off a flank. Michie is a ball magnet who wants to return home I believe.

If anything Griff won't be enough to get him and Freo would probably tell us to **** off in no uncertain terms.

Griff for all his athletic attributes and football skills, they are all pretty well useless because he doesn't get the ball. I hope we've learnt our Schulz lesson on guys that have no urgency. Move them on when they're worth something and not for a packet of chips 2 years later.

 

[Grockadoc]

I didn't mean one of our delistable mids. Would you trade McDonough for them?

Edit: Both McInnes and Smith have an impact and can actually find the footy already despite being 2 & 3 years younger than Griff respectively.

None of them have the injury concerns of Griff though. I still have faith that Griffiths will become a very good player for us. I'd love Michie on the list, just not for Griffiths, which was my objection in the first place.

Also, you just said a midfielder dominating VFL for us. Does Lonergan not fit this mould?

On a serious note, what about Shaun Grigg?

 

[PHX]

1. Chris Newman
Does he still command a best 22 spot in 2014?
If not, should we name him VFL captain?
No, but he is good enough to play a few games as a depth player at the least and the VFL captain should be full time VFL.

2. Matt Dea
Will he finally become a best 22 player in 2014?
Yes. I he's come from a low base but i think he has the smarts to make it, though I think he's a wingman/midfield type, not a defender.


3. Jake Batchelor
Can he get back to being a best 22 player in 2014?
Should we look at trading him this off season?
No. Yes. He's no good. Take what we can get.


4. David Astbury
Can he get back to the level he showed in his debut season?
Should we look at trading him this off season?
Yes. Yes, if there is a pick there trade him, if not give him one more year.


5. Luke McGuane
Should we re-sign him?
Only at a minimum level salary.

6. Ben Griffiths
Can he step up and become the KPF we hoped he would be when drafted?
Should we look at trading him this off season?
Yes. No, one more year for the Griff. He wouldn't have anymore currency than Gumby anyway, which is sweet FA.


7. Robin Nahas
Should we keep him on the list or should we trade him for whatever we can get?
Delist. No trade value.


8. Brad Helbig
Can he push for a best 22 spot if he remains on the list?
No. Delist this year. Had enough time.

9. Matthew White
Should he be re-signed?
Does he retain his best 22 spot in 2014?
Yes. Yes. We need his pace.

10. Tom Derickx
If we delist him and there is no mature ruckman available in the draft should we rookie list him?
No. No. He's had his chance. He's never going to make it.

11. Nathan Foley
Will he regain his spot in the best 22 in 2014?
Yes, if he's not traded.

12. Matthew Arnot
Will he be Tucks replacement in the midfield?
Hopefully, but I don't think he's ready yet to be a fulltime mid.

13. Brett O'Hanlon
Can he force his way into the 22 in 2014 if fully fit?
Yes, but delist and rookie him.

 

[tigs2010]

None of them have the injury concerns of Griff though. I still have faith that Griffiths will become a very good player for us. I'd love Michie on the list, just not for Griffiths, which was my objection in the first place.

Also, you just said a midfielder dominating VFL for us. Does Lonergan not fit this mould?

On a serious note, what about Shaun Grigg?

Griff has no injury concerns. He's been living on that for years now. He seems happy to coast along using this as a crutch when he's had no real injuries outside of the odd concussion. He's been poorly developed by the club and he's now a very, very ordinary player who is a good athlete. I'm not saying delist him but he currently offers the VFL team zero. Won't get more than a 1 year deal from the club.

Wouldn't trade Grigg for either of those guys who are both better than Griff already.

 

[Harmichael]

1. Chris Newman
Does he still command a best 22 spot in 2014?
If not, should we name him VFL captain?
No.
Yes - but should've retired.

2. Matt Dea
Will he finally become a best 22 player in 2014?
No. Trade bait

3. Jake Batchelor
Can he get back to being a best 22 player in 2014?
Should we look at trading him this off season?
Maybe.
Yes shop him around.

4. David Astbury
Can he get back to the level he showed in his debut season?
Should we look at trading him this off season?
See Batchelor

5. Luke McGuane
Should we re-sign him?
NO!!!

6. Ben Griffiths
Can he step up and become the KPF we hoped he would be when drafted?
Should we look at trading him this off season?
Possibly but not for us.
Yes! Sell high! Sell! Sell! Sell!

7. Robin Nahas
Should we keep him on the list or should we trade him for whatever we can get?
Trade/delist

8. Brad Helbig
Can he push for a best 22 spot if he remains on the list?
Maybe.
Trade or keep.

9. Matthew White
Should he be re-signed?
Does he retain his best 22 spot in 2014?
Earnt another year, still need his pace, particularly if the club doesn't address this area.
Will never be a 22 game a year player.

10. Tom Derickx
If we delist him and there is no mature ruckman available in the draft should we rookie list him?
No, delist and cut losses.

11. Nathan Foley
Will he regain his spot in the best 22 in 2014?
Not if we're moving forward as a club. Trade.

12. Matthew Arnot
Will he be Tucks replacement in the midfield?
He'll be someone's.

13. Brett O'Hanlon
Can he force his way into the 22 in 2014 if fully fit?
Can't really see it but keep for one more year if no decent offers.

 

[theflea]

It's an interesting one. But they'd be viewing Michie much like we view McDonough. Talented midfielders who can play off a flank. Michie is a ball magnet who wants to return home I believe.

If anything Griff won't be enough to get him and Freo would probably tell us to **** off in no uncertain terms.

Griff for all his athletic attributes and football skills, they are all pretty well useless because he doesn't get the ball. I hope we've learnt our Schulz lesson on guys that have no urgency. Move them on when they're worth something and not for a packet of chips 2 years later.

This is the point. For all his potential, the really only thing that stands out for grif is his kicking. He hasn't shown consistant marking, good running around the ground etc. Im not saying he is a lost cause but geez we have built him a bit for really not much output.

 

[theflea]

PHX gumby has at least proven he can take marks and griff hasn't. He has taken 1 mark on fletch and has lived on this for years.

 

[tigs2010]

This is the point. For all his potential, the really only thing that stands out for grif is his kicking. He hasn't shown consistant marking, good running around the ground etc. Im not saying he is a lost cause but geez we have built him a bit for really not much output.

Makes Jack Watts seem like Jono Brown. He has attributes but he's missing some of the most important things and I honestly think he still has value. If I'm wrong and he doesn't then give him his last chance. But I think that proposal which I think was Stylo's of Michie for Griff looks like a deal where supporters will be unhappy to see Griff go and then in a year or 2 we go wow we bent them over and laugh at them. Just like Grigg for Collins.

 

[Wild Westiger]

Time to seriously look at trading Griffiths, although his value has diminished a bit this year. Maybe some time spent with our stand alone VFL side next year would benefit him.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Just on Griff. I really like the individual bits he has to offer. And if he can become a B grade KP he has huge value to us. He is young and according to rumour had 'personal' problems (I have no idea what they are). What he brings is athleticism, decent mark (at times) and a great kick. The thing he could bring to our team is to stretch the forward line out to 60+m. If he could take 4ish marks a game out around 55-60 m from goal he is a huge threat to oppositions. That pulls their defensive structures out, which creates holes for Jack and Ty. Jack (is) and Ty (could be) are genuine top quality KPFs. releasing them a bit will make our forward line much more dangerous. As a KPB he has size, athleticism and a great kick, allowing us the ability to deal with monsters and move the ball over the opposition's press.

What he doesn't have is a good football brain (leads to the wrong places etc), mongrel, and the attitude to get the best form himself (by rumour). Personally I reckon the things he lacks are the most important thing to have in a player. But his evident talent and young age mean I would try to work on him for another year or two. We've seen with Jacko that over time 'dumb' footballers can learn to be moderately smart. Often young guys just need time and experience to learn to be confident in themselves. Talls take longer (Why? It takes longer for the blood to get to their brains? They take longer to learn how to get the best from their bodies? They mature later physically?).

Anyway, to me, the payback for working with him are potentially huge for us. We just aren't going to get equivalent talent easily. If he gets passed by others (McBean etc) then fine off he goes. But right now he has the talent to be something worthwhile, and we should work on that. Get him out rucking for another string to his bow, make him to mixed martial arts to toughen up, drill him on leading etc over and over again to learn where to go on the field. Guys without the football brain take time, but they can become good players. He is the kind of guy that adds to our list because he isn't first choice. We have JR and TV up forward, Grimes, Rance, Chaplin down back. He is simply one of the guys that might make it to fill in a KP spot. These guys take time, so I say give him time. Maybe 1-2 more years. Then we know for certain. Even then you get guys like Schluz that needed to be traded to wake up to themselves. The development game is long term, and often painful before good things happen.

 

[juss]

1. Chris Newman
Does he still command a best 22 spot in 2014?
Not an automatic pick, and I feel he should retire at the end of next year, his experience even on the training track will be vital. Look to mentor him into an assistant coach role for 2015.

2. Matt Dea
Will he finally become a best 22 player in 2014?
No, don't see what others do in him. Wouldn't blink if he was delisted.

3. Jake Batchelor
Can he get back to being a best 22 player in 2014?
I loved his first season, but if a decent offer came along I'd trade him. If not, give him one more year.

4. David Astbury
Can he get back to the level he showed in his debut season?
We don't have many KPDs so we need him on the list for next year, even as depth.

5. Luke McGuane
Should we re-sign him?
No, trade/let him go via FA/delist.

6. Ben Griffiths
Can he step up and become the KPF we hoped he would be when drafted?
I'd trade him for a top 30 pick, anything less and I'd keep.

7. Robin Nahas
Should we keep him on the list or should we trade him for whatever we can get?
Trade for anything/delist

8. Brad Helbig
Can he push for a best 22 spot if he remains on the list?
No, don't rate him, delist.

9. Matthew White
Should he be re-signed?
Yes, 1 more year. Handy 20-25th player. Good depth.

10. Tom Derickx
If we delist him and there is no mature ruckman available in the draft should we rookie list him?
No, take a punt on a younger project.

11. Nathan Foley
Will he regain his spot in the best 22 in 2014?
Not sure, shop him around, see if we can get a second rounder.

12. Matthew Arnot
Will he be Tucks replacement in the midfield?
I reckon he should be King's replacement as defensive forward.

13. Brett O'Hanlon
Can he force his way into the 22 in 2014 if fully fit?
Don't know enough about him.

 

[TheAnt]

We literally have no depth for medium defenders, we MUST keep Dea.

 

[TigerTime88]

As the 2013 season has finished and we're now heading into the silly season of delistings/trades/draft, I wanted to generate some discussion about some players who end this season with question marks over their futures.

1. Chris Newman
Does he still command a best 22 spot in 2014?
If not, should we name him VFL captain?

Last year next year. Goes in and out of games and is too slow these days.

2. Matt Dea
Will he finally become a best 22 player in 2014?

Shows signs but he will be on the chopping block if he sits in the VFL next year. Would be happy for the club to rookie him if no good.

3. Jake Batchelor
Can he get back to being a best 22 player in 2014?
Should we look at trading him this off season?

Has shown enough for mine to keep him. Needs to have a big pre season. Only his 3rd year and showed plenty in the first couple.

4. David Astbury
Can he get back to the level he showed in his debut season?
Should we look at trading him this off season?

I don't think he will make it. If it was a choice out of he and Griff to keep I would keep Griff as I think he could potentially be more damaging. Astbury is just a little slow. Next year will make or break.

5. Luke McGuane
Should we re-sign him?

Trade him now as this will be his highest currency and McBean/Edwards even Elton will probably be ahead of him. Would be on ok coin so will free up some much needed cap space.

6. Ben Griffiths
Can he step up and become the KPF we hoped he would be when drafted?
Should we look at trading him this off season?

Another year playing FF/CHF in the VFL team and AFL if selected. Has the talent just needs to stay in one possie and uninjured. If after a next year he is no good well he has to go.

7. Robin Nahas
Should we keep him on the list or should we trade him for whatever we can get?

Gone

8. Brad Helbig
Can he push for a best 22 spot if he remains on the list?

Another one I would like to give another year to. I would be angry if this guy gets delisted after the run of injuries he had due to the fact a spud like Petterd gets upgraded. Has the potential to be something good so worth another go.

9. Matthew White
Should he be re-signed?
Does he retain his best 22 spot in 2014?

Resign

10. Tom Derickx
If we delist him and there is no mature ruckman available in the draft should we rookie list him?

Gone...draft a young backup.

11. Nathan Foley
Will he regain his spot in the best 22 in 2014?

Reckon harsh treatment. Give him a full preseason and I think he will easily be best 22 again and also a genuine gun.

12. Matthew Arnot
Will he be Tucks replacement in the midfield?

I think he will always be limited and destined for the scrap heap but not yet.

13. Brett O'Hanlon
Can he force his way into the 22 in 2014 if fully fit?

Rate this kid so would like to give him another year.

It seems we have a lot of kids from 09/10 drafts that have shown they have plenty of potential but haven't had a consistent run due to injuries. Give them all one more year and if no good delist the ones that can't step up.

Chopping block for mine would be:

McGuane traded to Lions or someone like that
Nahas delisted
Derickx delisted
Tuck retired

Then my order of preference after that going into the following year with no improvement would be:

Newman retire
King retire
Dea to go first
Astbury
Helbig
Arnot
Griffiths
O'Hanlon

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

Maybe I've been wasting too much time on dreamteam but reckon its worth having some McGuane and Kingy types that can serve a role, occasionally well, will give 100% despite being a bit less gifted, but who at least leave some space for top end talent. Don't take em for granted, but need a few proven fringe players to go with raw recruits.