Bushfires.

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Bazzar said:
"Three years after the (Black Saturday) royal commission recommended doubling the amount of land being burned off, the State Government changed its approach — dumping its annual 5 per cent target in favour of a "targeted risk reduction" program.


www.abc.net.au

Former fire chief calls for more planned burns as fuel loads reach Black Saturday levels

A Victorian forest fire chief who quit following Black Saturday warns a combination of fear about planned burns and increasing forest fuel loads is putting the state at risk of deadly bushfires.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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you're the one who says the fire chiefs are all activist political stooges who should be ignored. Sounds like the gov is trying to do things more sustainably and smarter rather than just doing the same thing but more
 
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ome-as-fire-danger-looms-20200103-p53oo1.html

This is sick. Anyone who makes their 11 year old stay and fight these kinds of fires in the face of all the advice given and with ample time to evacuate should be charged with child endangerment. And I'll bet if anyone is hurt they will blame the gov for not clearing the forest instead of themselves for not getting the f out.
 
theyellowsash said:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ome-as-fire-danger-looms-20200103-p53oo1.html

This is sick. Anyone who makes their 11 year old stay and fight these kinds of fires in the face of all the advice given and with ample time to evacuate should be charged with child endangerment. And I'll bet if anyone is hurt they will blame the gov for not clearing the forest instead of themselves for not getting the f out.
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when the fire bosses guys said recently you have a 25% chance of dying if you stay and fight - a lot of people were like "75%, thats pretty good odds"

i do not think it had the effect they were intending
 

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theyellowsash said:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ome-as-fire-danger-looms-20200103-p53oo1.html

This is sick. Anyone who makes their 11 year old stay and fight these kinds of fires in the face of all the advice given and with ample time to evacuate should be charged with child endangerment. And I'll bet if anyone is hurt they will blame the gov for not clearing the forest instead of themselves for not getting the f out.
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I can’t truly understand why people stay and fight, I can see why people whose livelihoods depends on their property not burning to the ground staying to protect their cattle and structures. But if it’s just your family home (like it seems with the first family in the article) I just don’t get it. Not to mention if these fires roar through a 15lt bucket of water ain’t gonna do jack.

But myself and some other posters have been advocating clearing of vegetation and back burning to prevent the intensity of these fires. We are talking prevention, you are talking reaction by just evacuating every time there is a fire threat.
 
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Marcel Proust said:
its usually different weather on the far side of the great dividing range i think

45 for albury doesnt sound good with fires already around that region
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For the Albury fire

Plan is
1) Protect lives
2) protect property of value to the livelihood of the town's when rebuilt.

I'd never heard point 2 before in all the reporting
 
saj_21 said:
I can’t truly understand why people stay and fight, I can see why people whose livelihoods depends on their property not burning to the ground staying to protect their cattle and structures. But if it’s just your family home (like it seems with the first family in the article) I just don’t get it. Not to mention if these fires roar through a 15lt bucket of water ain’t gonna do jack.

But myself and some other posters have been advocating clearing of vegetation and back burning to prevent the intensity of these fires. We are talking prevention, you are talking reaction by just evacuating every time there is a fire threat.
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Why some people dont leave.

It's not as simple and practical as many think it should be.


Follow-up survey findings 10 years post black Saturday

Interviewees described weaknesses in their planning and preparation that influenced their ability to respond safely. For example, some who intended to ‘leave early’ were forced to stay with their homes during the fire because they were unable to safely evacuate. Failure to plan for this possibility meant some remained to defend or shelter at properties despite little or no preparedness to do so. Similarly, some who stayed to defend abandoned their house because of the intensity of the fire and the failure of defensive endeavours.
Failure to consider how or where they would evacuate to led to late and dangerous evacuations and forced some to seek immediate shelter. Situations such as these demonstrated the need for people to plan for multiple possibilities if their preferred response is not possible.

These findings were supported by postal survey results. Although seven-in-ten respondents claimed to have a ‘plan’, most had not considered what they would do if other household members were not home during a fire. People were more likely to undertake simple and ‘easy to do’ preparations as part of general property maintenance (e.g. clearing leaves, grass and debris from around the house) than more complex, costly and time-consuming actions (e.g. installing seals and draft protectors around windows and doors). Most believed their preparedness level for bushfire to be ‘high’ to ‘very high’ (46 per cent) or ‘average’ (36 per cent) yet almost three-quarters acknowledged they could have been better prepared. Self-assessments of preparedness levels were lower in suburban areas. For example, people in Horsham and Bendigo were more likely to have previously considered it unlikely that a bushfire would occur (72 per cent and 53 per cent, respectively) than respondents overall (22 per cent).

Data on intended and actual responses to the fires suggest broad support for ‘staying to defend’ and limited acceptance of the ‘leave early’ message. Half of all interview respondents previously intended to stay and defend against bushfire (50 per cent) while just two-in-ten (21 per cent) intended to leave. Significantly, the research found a quarter of the respondents were undecided (26 per cent); intending to stay and defend but leave if threatened or to wait and see what the fire was like before deciding what to do. These findings
are consistent with earlier research highlighting the tendency for some people to wait and see and the risks associated with this approach (e.g. Rhodes 2005, Tibbits & Whittaker 2007).

In terms of actual responses, 53 per cent of survey respondents stayed to defend, 43 per cent left their homes or properties before or when the fire arrived and 4 per cent sheltered inside a house, another structure, vehicle or somewhere outside. More than a third of those who defended left at some stage during the fire (38 per cent), most commonly because of perceived danger, failure of equipment or utilities or because their house caught fire. More than half of those who left considered that they left too late (54 per cent) and most perceived the level of danger to be high or very high (80 per cent). The prevalence of late evacuations can, in part, be attributed to the failure of warning systems (see Teague, McLeod & Pascoe 2010); 62 per cent of respondents did not receive an ‘official’ warning from police, fire and emergency services. Most people did, however, receive an unofficial warning from family, friends or neighbours (63 per cent).

Analysis of survey data revealed a lower rate of house destruction among households where people stayed to defend (Whittaker et al. 2013). Where at least one person stayed to defend, two-in-ten houses were destroyed. Where all householders left or stayed and did not defend, five-in-ten houses were destroyed. An important caveat is that the interview sample was not random and cannot be said to be representative of the affected population. Nor can the extent to which defended homes were threatened be known (i.e. some ‘defended’ houses may have had little or no direct exposure to embers, radiant heat or flames). Nevertheless, the finding that defended houses fared better than undefended ones is consistent with findings from previous studies (e.g. Wilson & Ferguson 1984, Ramsay, McArthur & Dowling 1987).

AJEM April 2019 - Ten years after the Black Saturday fires, what have we learnt from post-fire research? | Australian Disaster Resilience Knowledge Hub

Ten years ago, 173 people lost their lives and more than 2000 homes were destroyed in the Black Saturday bushfires. The fires of 7 February 2009 led to a royal commission and significant changes to bushfire management throughout Australia. Research played an important role in the royal...
knowledge.aidr.org.au knowledge.aidr.org.au
 
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theyellowsash said:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ome-as-fire-danger-looms-20200103-p53oo1.html

This is sick. Anyone who makes their 11 year old stay and fight these kinds of fires in the face of all the advice given and with ample time to evacuate should be charged with child endangerment. And I'll bet if anyone is hurt they will blame the gov for not clearing the forest instead of themselves for not getting the f out.
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Yep, 100% agree. There is absolutely no reason that a single child needs to die in these fires.

The worse thing is, they say if it gets too much they have the cars packed and they'll just jump in them and drive into town. I'm pretty confident that a lot of the deaths in these type of fires are people in cars trying to get out too late. They become disorientated, hit fallen trees and get lost and cook.
 
Well if they come my way im out
No way im gonna defend my property...chances are slim id be successful
This is why im over insured..in case i have to start again.
Im also not naive enough to know that not clearing the floors of the dead fuel is completely stupid and i do it reg on my block
Not only does it clear up debris its good kindling come winter time.
 
outabounds said:
Haha, the agenda is a bit more than that and you know it. Are you honestly saying the Government is doing nothing to help people and are you honestly saying if the ALP were in Govt it would be any different? its called a natural disaster. it takes time to get mobilised to help, they have sent the navy in to help people. Take a look at the chaos in New Orleans in the most wealthy country in the world after Hurricane Katrina.
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Personally, i think the logistical exercise of mobilising the ADFs Choules to evacuate stranded people at Mallacoota in a few days a rapid response and an uplifting story.

Well done to all
 

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Gavin Excell said:
Personally, i think the logistical exercise of mobilising the ADFs Choules to evacuate stranded people at Mallacoota in a few days a rapid response and an uplifting story.

Well done to all
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I've just been down to the beach for a look, usually I can see Hastings wharves from Phillip Island but there's too much smoke.
 
Gavin Excell said:
Personally, i think the logistical exercise of mobilising the ADFs Choules to evacuate stranded people at Mallacoota in a few days a rapid response and an uplifting story.

Well done to all
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Have a quick flick through this, it's absolutely mind blowing what the ADF has accomplished since 8th November when they were first deployed.
The organisation and logistics is just phenomenal.

All updated daily


Operation Bushfire Assist 2019-2020 | Defence News

LATEST UPDATE TO ADF'S BUSHFIRE RECOVERY EFFORTS
news.defence.gov.au news.defence.gov.au
 
In the past 24 hours, the ADF has provided the following support:
  • Two Joint Task Forces (JTFs) have been established to facilitate ADF support to emergency services in Victoria and NSW. These JTFs are in addition to a range of other contributions being undertaken under a variety of defence aid arrangements. Note that deployed numbers listed below are fluid: forces are being recalled, as such significant changes are expected in coming days.
Victoria:

  • JTF 646: Based on the Army’s Reserve 4th Brigade, about 370 personnel are already assigned. Planning is underway to finalise the forces needed and compile the scope of tasks likely to be undertaken.
  • RAAF Base East Sale is assisting with helicopter operations and air evacuations. Last night a RAAF C-27J Spartan tactical airlifter flew 25 children and elderly citizens out of Mallacoota to RAAF Base East Sale.
  • Two Navy ships are undertaking evacuation operations from Mallacoota for about 1100 civilians.
  • MV Sycamore (crew of 29 civilian contractors and one Navy officer) has departed Mallacoota and is heading for Westernport on the Mornington Peninsular. 60 evacuees plus some pets are on board.
  • HMAS Choules (crew of 179) has finalised its loading and has proceeded to Westernport with about 1100 evacuees. Journey time for both ships is expected to be 20 hours.
NSW:

  • JTF 1110: Based on the Army’s Reserve 5th Brigade, the JTF is assembling its forces, with about 250 personnel already assigned. Today the JTF conducted engineering reconnaissance to build a clearer picture of the expected route clearance and recovery operations that will be required as the days unfold.
 
Scomo what a great bloke instead of opening the government wallet to help people struggling with Fire he donates to his Hillsong cult

But he’s a good guy he rocked up to a relief place with one bag of food and a slab of up and go what a legend
 
Stevi_Tigers said:
Scomo what a great bloke instead of opening the government wallet to help people struggling with Fire he donates to his Hillsong cult

But he’s a good guy he rocked up to a relief place with one bag of food and a slab of up and go what a legend
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"Instead of opening the government wallet to help people struggling with Fire"

Not sure what you mean?
 
Cuzz09 said:
Exactly.

He's in a no win possie.

Does nothing = useless
Visits areas = try hard.

He should just try and get more funding or whatever PMs do.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
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It's as if the whole thing has taken him completely by surprise
 
Bazzar said:
"Instead of opening the government wallet to help people struggling with Fire"

Not sure what you mean?
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When there is a natural disaster overseas government tips in money straight away yet people are suffering here and crickets. Shouldn’t be up to the general public and sports stars to raise funds
 
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