Opinion Butcher

[PJ Power]

Let's go back to the preseason game in 2012 when he kicked five against WCE in a very undermanned side. None of us would have envisioned the struggles he has had since then.
Definitely don't think he has benefited by playing for a disorganised Magpies team where I gather ball use and forward structure has been random.
One of our new recruits this year must be a KPF and we need to make sure that the reserves side next year emphasises replicating our AFL game style and structures.

 

[Power Raid]

How the **** were we down 63 to 6 against the Western Bulldogs in the second quarter???

Man I'm glad I spent most of 2011 overseas.

and that was one of our better performances

 

[itisnt2hard]

We have Jay Schulz (28) Justin Westhoff (27) who arguably is a floater or utility, John Butcher (22) and Mason Shaw (19) heaven forbid if Cam McCarthy is available we take him... Butcher is done for, Shaw is shit, were doomed...

The 014 team line up will be very different to this years team. If we had depth this year in our available talls (cant use the letters KPP) as it doesnt apply to Butch at present, we wouldnt even have this thread. Just saying IF we trade in ready made, ready to go performing talls this year, Butch is going to find it even harder than he has this year with out having any one else available to compete with for a spot. There comes a time and bookmark it if you must but i am calling Butch gone. Seen enough.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

How the **** were we down 63 to 6 against the Western Bulldogs in the second quarter???

Man I'm glad I spent most of 2011 overseas.

We were 63 to NIL with 15 seconds to go of the first quarter. Daniel Stewart took a mark on the 50m arc just before the siren, went back and kicked a goal after the siren to make it 63 v 6.

In rd 20 we lost to Collingwood by 138pts, in rd 21 we lost to Hawthorn by 165pts and with the first quarter almost finished we were down by 63pts in the rd 22 game against the Bulldogs. I was saying to those around me at quarter time that if we continue serving up this tripe we would be lucky to get 10,000 to the Adelaide Oval game in rd 22. We were on the verge of a complete ****en disaster.

Don't believe the media BS about us being a basket case in 2012. We hit rock bottom on and off the field in 2011. The turn around on field started when we found Butcher in the final 3 quarters and other players lifted and we lost those 3 quarters by 3 pts. Next week we lost to Essendon by 7 pts and then beat Melbourne by 8pts at AO.

Off field we started turning things around when we officially appointed KT, 5 days after the Western Bulldogs game.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Yet we didn't deserve a first round PP. if melb get one ill be pissed

 

[El_Scorcho]

There comes a time and bookmark it if you must but i am calling Butch gone. Seen enough.

This is a wildly different attitude than you've shown to say, Matt Thomas, who I'd argue has been less useful and much, much more replaceable than Butcher over the journey.

There are about 10 genuinely gun tall forwards in the league and only one of them is younger than Butch.

If we trade or draft a tall forward, great. We absolutely need more talls on our list. It certainly doesn't change the fact that Butcher will improve out of sight with a full preseason and some confidence.

 

[Portmanteau]

Not to mention the fact that he clearly has the confidence of Ken Hinkley and re-signed this year.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

I'm backing Thomas to have a more successful career than butcher. BTW I hope Thomas goes to Richmond

 

[itisnt2hard]

This is a wildly different attitude than you've shown to say, Matt Thomas, who I'd argue has been less useful and much, much more replaceable than Butcher over the journey.

There are about 10 genuinely gun tall forwards in the league and only one of them is younger than Butch.

If we trade or draft a tall forward, great. We absolutely need more talls on our list. It certainly doesn't change the fact that Butcher will improve out of sight with a full preseason and some confidence.

In fairness i was asked by a poster 7 or 8 weeks ago should we delist Matt at the end of the year. My answer was yes and i stick by it still. Regardless of all the excuses of interupted pre season, injuries, confidence etc this year was a golden opp for Butch to have a crack. He was given more than enough chances as well as enjoying little to none competition for his spot. Next year will only get harder. Sometimes you just have to call it.

 

[Power Raid]

We will know exactly where Butch fits in long term after trade period. Who we trade/draft this year will decide Butchs fate. It will be a genuine indication on what/where the club thinks Butch fits in long term. it wont be hard to read the fine print.

true but there is plenty of opportunity to become the KPF he was recruited for or the second 195cm+ defender. That height and athleticism could make for a handy CHB

 

[itisnt2hard]

true but there is plenty of opportunity to become the KPF he was recruited for or the second 195cm+ defender. That height and athleticism could make for a handy CHB

Maybe if his body allows him. Saw him play CHB years ago as a youngen in a match. it was early days though i was down watching some one else and didnt even know who Butch was. Didnt take long from all the talk that he was rated at that stage.

 

[Freomaniac]

You don't kick 11 goals in your first 4 games if you are a dud, that's for sure. 2014 will be his year. Fast, great contested mark. He just needs to improve his fitness and stay injury free and we'll be laughing.

If you guys dont want Butcher, Freo are more than happy to take him. My only problem is you guys would want more than a 1st round pick though...

 

[RangaInTeal]

I'm backing Thomas to have a more successful career than butcher. BTW I hope Thomas goes to Richmond

Sorry, with all due respect..

ARE YOU F***ING HIGH?

 

[Hellgood]

The 014 team line up will be very different to this years team. If we had depth this year in our available talls (cant use the letters KPP) as it doesnt apply to Butch at present, we wouldnt even have this thread. Just saying IF we trade in ready made, ready to go performing talls this year, Butch is going to find it even harder than he has this year with out having any one else available to compete with for a spot. There comes a time and bookmark it if you must but i am calling Butch gone. Seen enough.

Would be interested in your thoughts on Lobbe in 2010? Tom Hawkins in mid 2011?

Is Sam Reid gone? Tyrone Vickery finished? Jarrad Grant done? All over for Jack Watts? Jack Fitzpatrick? Game over son.

Patience.

 

[cmpower]

We've put 7 years into Salter and 6 into D Stewart. We will not cut Butch after 3.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Would be interested in your thoughts on Lobbe in 2010? Tom Hawkins in mid 2011?

Is Sam Reid gone? Tyrone Vickery finished? Jarrad Grant done? All over for Jack Watts? Jack Fitzpatrick? Game over son.

Patience.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...id2=14&pid2=506&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=A&fopt2=22

For anybody who doesn't bother to click on links, that link takes you to a comparison of John Butcher and Jay Schulz at the same age. Guess who wins? And Schulz didn't have the injury problems that Butcher has had.

 

[cmpower]

This is a wildly different attitude than you've shown to say, Matt Thomas, who I'd argue has been less useful and much, much more replaceable than Butcher over the journey.

There are about 10 genuinely gun tall forwards in the league and only one of them is younger than Butch.

If we trade or draft a tall forward, great. We absolutely need more talls on our list. It certainly doesn't change the fact that Butcher will improve out of sight with a full preseason and some confidence.

2.
Cameron and Daniher.

 

[Power Raid]

I'm backing Thomas to have a more successful career than butcher. BTW I hope Thomas goes to Richmond

wowee that's not good

 

[*PAF]

wowee that's not good

Nah, that's good.
We can now put money on Butcher to have a massive 2014.

Wanted to trade Lobbe and Westhoff IIRC and we know how well they went this year.

 

[wharfietilidie]

Love to see butch with a full preseason and confident. Time my friends, time. Matty Lobbe certainly looks better than he did the year after Brogan left. He was getting smacked out of the park and we couldn't buy a clearance. For some reason big guys take a while to gain contol of their limbs below their elbow and knee joints. Butch will come good, but we still need to draft a key forward in the first round.

 

[wharfietilidie]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...id2=14&pid2=506&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=A&fopt2=22

For anybody who doesn't bother to click on links, that link takes you to a comparison of John Butcher and Jay Schulz at the same age. Guess who wins? And Schulz didn't have the injury problems that Butcher has had.

Good comparison I think. Didn't watch much of Richmond in this era but I presume shultz was working as the second forward option after matty richardson in the same manner that butch has had to work under Shultz.

 

[Jakko]

I don't see Butch as the answer to our tall forward prayers for the next decade, but he still has a big role to play for quite a few years imo.

If he gets himself right physically, brings awesome forward pressure, busts packs, takes marks and makes himself known, but is still scattergun in front of goal and a bit gangly then he will be very useful.

Should take a tall forward every draft no matter what.

 

[RangaInTeal]

2.
Cameron and Daniher.

WTF had Daniher done to be considered a "GUN"

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

Sorry, with all due respect..

ARE YOU F***ING HIGH?

I don't rate butcher....(or Thomas)

 

[El_Scorcho]

2.
Cameron and Daniher.

I see what you're saying but I'd argue that Daniher hasn't done any more than Butcher at the same age and isn't a top AFL KPF just yet.

The Schulz comparison destroys the trade/delist argument anyway.