Play Nice Bye Bye Brad #3 [Locked: BS signs 2-year ext. Aug-2017, tied to NM until end 2020]

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ferball

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To be honest Zmoney I think Scott is better than the wrap he gets on here. Sure he has his weaknesses, which you allude to in your post but in reality he took what was a 7-8 out of 10 list to two prelims. I have mentioned in another post somewhere that ultimately he should transition to a Director of Football role because i think he will be better suited to more overarching responsibility but who knows, perhaps some of these kids that are and will be getting games will come on strong over the next two seasons and enable us to push deep again. From there it can be a lottery.
His major weakness is his shithouse tactical nouse. Strategically he is very good. That is why the side got two prelims and at one stage won 20 or so games out of 25. Then again there were times he backed his game plan and the results were good. But he seems very slow to adapt, too much rigidity/not enough flexibility in his approach. Thats a good thing when you are winning and going deep into finals, not good when things aren't working.

The other major weakness is the way the skills seem to be going backward over the last 3 seasons. In the first game of this year and the last one of 2015 skills have cost against the wc, in 2015 they may have cost us a flag. Definitely cost us a GF spot.

Obviously just missing a GF because of shithouse skills means you are doing other things right. But not improving that over the next two seasons is a backwards step by any measure. So that's got to improve this season. Do we even have a skills coach? We didn't last year according to the website.
 

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You can use the word tank however you may wish. When you retire all your senior players and play 6 debutants round 1 the following year and keep a coach around for 12 months when you know he is gone at end he 2017 that means to me that the club has put the queue in the rack for 12 months.

Like the old saying goes jump Before you get pushed. Well we chose to jump as a club. Not saying we've done the wrong thing at all from a management perspective as only time answers that but certainly the players have probably been given false hope by the club going into this year and have zero hope of playing finals. Sometimes it's a fine line clubs tread between science and culture and I can't see how anything we've handled or done over the last 6-8 months can improve our culture as an organisation.

It won't take long for Goldstein, Swallow and several others to realise they won't be playing in a GF for at least 3-4 years at North if ever. That's when the real problems and fractures will begin and when we will see probably a lot worse football than today later in year. If the clubs fairdinkum about this transition I want to see Thompson, Hansen, Gibson, Thomas, Daw etc all considered to be de listed or traded at the end of the year.
 
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ferball

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Anybody Else? :stern look
Yep.

I wouldn't consider myself a supporter if i didn't think we were in with a chance after a r1 loss. We lost the first 2 games of the 1999 H&A season. After the way the year before ended that seemed like the beginning of a bad time, but it wasn't.
 

ferball

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You can use the word tank however you may wish. When you retire all your senior players and play 6 debutants round 1 the following year and keep a coach around for 12 months when you know he is gone at end he 2017 that means to me that the club has put the queue in the rack for 12 months.

Like the old saying goes jump Before you get pushed. Well we chose to jump as a club. Not saying we've done the wrong thing at all from a management perspective but certainly the players have probably been given false hope by the club going into this year.

It won't take long for Goldstein, Swallow and several others to realise they won't be playing in a GF for at least 3-4 years at North if ever. That's when the real problems and fractures will begin and when we will see probably a lot worse football than today later in year. If the clubs fairdinkum about this transition I want to see Thompson, Hansen, Gibson, Thomas, Daw etc all considered to be de listed or traded at the end of the year.
I hope you have nothing to do with that decision then.
 
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Good marketing ploy by the club though.

2017- sign up cos we are playing the exciting kids
2018- sign up and get behind the new senior coach and pick 2 in the draft
2019- sign up these young Roos are ready to pounce

Bla bla bla how about winning games of football
 

ferball

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If the clubs fairdinkum about this transition I want to see Thompson, Hansen, Gibson, Thomas, Daw etc all considered to be de listed or traded at the end of the year.
Any decision about those players futures. And who is "etc"?

Sam Wright, Goldy, Cunnington, ... Wood ...

What about Higgo? 30 next year. Delist and give someone young a go?
 

czero

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Good marketing ploy by the club though.

2017- sign up cos we are playing the exciting kids
2018- sign up and get behind the new senior coach and pick 2 in the draft
2019- sign up these young Roos are ready to pounce

Bla bla bla how about winning games of football
Actually its 2019 - Signup because we just hit a motherload of Father Sons in the 2018 draft :O) I can only imagine that we will sell everything into buying for next year, and then next year sell everything from the year after to buy more 2018 picks. Or maybe not. Bird in the hand as they say.

20% discount and first dibs to 4 players - thats really getting your draft dollars worth.
Tarryn Thomas
Joel Crocker
Nick Blakey
Bailey Scott
 

Hearts to hearts

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From a coaching point of view a couple of things had me a bit concerned yesterday - 1. kick outs were predictable lotteries, 2. after starting the game really looking for forward targets with lowered eyes and mostly and hitting them we reverted to the old kick it long onto heads ploy, and 3. (not unconnected) our forwards kept jumping for the same balls.

Having said that, I don't actually blame any of the coaches for forwards and mids missing easy shots on goal, or backmen dropping marks they would take 99/100 times across their careers, or players handballing slowly at the feet of teammates under pressure or missing field kicking targets by metres. Not being in the inner sanctum, I can't be sure, but I doubt any of these things are drilled at training and given as final instructions to the team.
 

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Zondor

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Yep.

I wouldn't consider myself a supporter if i didn't think we were in with a chance after a r1 loss. We lost the first 2 games of the 1999 H&A season. After the way the year before ended that seemed like the beginning of a bad time, but it wasn't.
Hey Ferza, I to "wish" we win the Premiership under Scotts this year but I don't "think" it will happen. I don't "think" he is capable of coaching us to a Premership. In one of your most recent posts in this thread you highlight some of Scotts weaknesses. They aren't the qualities of a Premiership winning coach. :stern look
 

RobZombie

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Fair Enough. Why? Please enlighten this dopey prick. :stern look
Okey Doke. Over his time here Scott has shown an ability to learn and grow in the role, and he doesn't strike me as the sort to get to the point where he puts the cue in the rack and considers himself a finished product. He took a list that needed serious rebuilding after '09 to about as far as it could go, having only compromised drafts and late 1st-round picks to work with. After 2013 he (along with the smart recruitment of NDS) fixed the giving up leads problem. After being completely overwhelmed in the 2014 prelim he went back and was within a quarter of winning one. Last year they had to deal with the problem of just not showing up every 4th or 5th week and, despite falling in a heap with injuries and a tough schedule, only lost one game where they were favourites. When you look at they way they progress year on year it's clear he sees and understands the same problems we do, and has a plan to fix them.

He's not perfect but he's a good coach. The players respect him and the old hands talk about him as a good teaching coach. If the list management cards fall his way he'll contend again. If it all turns to shit this season the group might quit on him and there's no coming back from that but there's a lot of people gleefully sharpening up the pitchforks after one loss to a likely top 4 side.
 
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He is not a good match day coach RobZombie, even if he may be better in terms of other preparation.

The pitchforks should be out for as long as he performs poorly, this is not an isolated result.

We could have won yesterday with better finishing (not on Scott) and decent tactical flexibility (on Scott).
 
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There are two things that annoys me about Scott:

1. His team selection philosophy centres around always playing tried and failed seniors.

2. His lack of coaching adaptability during games and his lack of imagination. Eg: During the third quarter when the Eagles were running all over us, why didnt he throw a few players around. Throw Tarrant to CHF, place Waite to CHB, chuck JZ to FF and chuck LT on the ball. Anything ffs try something to at least show supporters you are actually trying something. He sits there like an impotent horny guy frustrated that another hot nude chick is walking out the door due to no action.

I really like the bloke but as a coach he is not up to it. Lacks discipline principles and the players take advantage of it.
 

Horace

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Okey Doke. Over his time here Scott has shown an ability to learn and grow in the role, and he doesn't strike me as the sort to get to the point where he puts the cue in the rack and considers himself a finished product. He took a list that needed serious rebuilding after '09 to about as far as it could go, having only compromised drafts and late 1st-round picks to work with. After 2013 he (along with the smart recruitment of NDS) fixed the giving up leads problem. After being completely overwhelmed in the 2014 prelim he went back and was within a quarter of winning one. Last year they had to deal with the problem of just not showing up every 4th or 5th week and, despite falling in a heap with injuries and a tough schedule, only lost one game where they were favourites. When you look at they way they progress year on year it's clear he sees and understands the same problems we do, and has a plan to fix them.

He's not perfect but he's a good coach. The players respect him and the old hands talk about him as a good teaching coach. If the list management cards fall his way he'll contend again. If it all turns to shit this season the group might quit on him and there's no coming back from that but there's a lot of people gleefully sharpening up the pitchforks after one loss to a likely top 4 side.
I think he can coach as well. After all we did make it to two PF's under his guidance and in 2015, in particular, if not for the WA umpiring influence at crtical stages in the second half, we might have made it to a GF. I refuse to accept that our terrible injury run last year was not a major reason for a fall away last year.

In my opinion, putting so much blame on the Coach for yesterday's loss is just failing to recognise the reality of what we faced.

The Eagles went in with 22 experienced hardened footballers, used to the hurly burly and surely a better team by the inclusion of Sam Mitchell. There is no way that the Hawks should have traded him. He is a marvellous 300 plus game footballer.

Against that we were without Cunners, a huge loss against such a team as the Eagles in Round 1

In contrast we lost over 1000 games of experience from six players from the team that lost to Adelaide in the EF. In their place were 4 debutantes, plus Marley Williams and Nathan Hrovat, both good handy footballers but right now (and never will be) hardly mentioned in the same breath as a bloke like Boomer.

Why any North supporter went to yesterday's game thinking we would win, is truly staggering to me.

This is what a re-build is all about. It is a trial and error thing. We will see mistakes galore but we will also see as the season progresses some very good football.

Don't just blame the coach. Give it time.

BTW, did anyone hear Nicky Dal on SEN after the game? He was quite upbeat. He said that despite the fact that it cost him his place, we needed to make changes at the end of last year. I really liked the fact that he said there is a lot of good young talent on our list just waiting for the chance and now is the time (or words to that effect.)
 
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Why any North supporter went to yesterday's game thinking we would win, is truly staggering to me.
Really? WCE in Melb are always gettable.

I didn't think we would win, but certainly felt we could - but seeing underdone old blokes run around, whilst seeing the game slip away and we do nothing tactically to change it, means any chance we had was vastly reduced.
 
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Regarding list management, it looks like we've gone from having not enough genuine wingmen to having too many.

Gibson can only really be played on a wing. Atley has been pushed up there so far this year. Macmillan is a wingman masquerading as a defender. Hibberd is Macmillan Lite. Clarke has claims on a wing spot, now we're suggesting Thomas needs to be played up the ground & he's more of a wingman than he is a genuine centreman.

Gibson is a first choice wingman. Nailed on. So there's one spot left for the rest of that group if they're all in the side at once. Hibberd and Macmillan will cost us goals if they're left in the backline for too long - case in point, Hibberd's leaving Hill goalside at a contest in the F50, which Yeo was able to walk through and supply Hill while Hibberd waltzed around behind play. It can be put down to first game nerves, sure, but Hibberd is more a winger than a defender.

Clarke can run all day and would be suited to a wing. But do you want him in at the centre bounce learning the clearance craft? Or should he be using his tank to work blokes into the ground on the wing? Is he Mitchell or is he Gaff?

What the **** is Atley? Is he a wingman, or is he a defender? Can he defend? Does he have the peripheral vision and the 360 degree game sense to be valuable in the middle of the ground? Why are we having this conversation 7 years into his career?

Realistically the solution is to drop Hibberd & Swallow. Replace Swallow with Clarke, which in my opinion is enough of a like for like that the difference will be negligible. Replace Hibberd with Cunnington, which is no slight on Mitch, he's just not ready.

Play Gibson on a wing until the coaches get sick of him or he gets too old and retires (probably the latter). Rotate Atley and Macmillan through the other wing and hope that the promoted EVW & Durdin can mesh well enough with Tarrant, Williams, McDonald and whichever of Atley & J-Mac isn't played in the backline to cover the defensive lapses that are sure to come.

I don't know what we do with Thomas. I agree that he probably needs to be moved up the ground to take his mind off the "do I have the yips" question, but where do you fit him in our already crowded midfield rotation? And do we take away someone like Hrovat or McDonald or Turner's midfield rotation time to fit Thomas in there?
 

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Really? WCE in Melb are always gettable.

I didn't think we would win, but certainly felt we could - but seeing underdone old blokes run around, whilst seeing the game slip away and we do nothing tactically to change it, means any chance we had was vastly reduced.
So in essence you agree with what I said.
 
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So in essence you agree with what I said.
I thought we had a chance going in going in and certainly don't think it "truly staggering" for any supporter thinking we could/would.

Accepting a loss at our home ground, against a nothing special Interstate visitor, before the game has even started is strangely defeatist to me. The squad we put our there was good enough to get the job done, but once again certain senior players and unimaginative coaching put paid to that idea.
 
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