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Bye bye Clarkson
- Thread starter RossHenshaw
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I just want to illustrate something.
Here's a thread on the Hawthorn board from the first week of May 2006, in Clarkson's second year as Hawthorn head coach. It was complaining about Clarkson selecting/leaving players on the ground who were getting smashed, in games where they were getting smashed
Tell me if you see some parallels here.
(PS BigFooty Mods/Admins - yes, I'm directly quoting posts from another team's board here. The posts are from 2006. Please don't infract me for this!)
Two years later in 2008 they won their first of four flags under Clarkson.
His methods work. There's pain in the early days as he seeks to build his system, his philosophy, and his ideology into the young kids.
.
(PS check out the actual nostradamus post in that threadIt's the entire reason I remembered those posts from disgruntled Hawthorn fanssome 18~ years later haha)
Nobody has an issue with playing Wardlaw in the guts, or McKercher in the guts, or Biggie down back, or trialing Comben down back, or Sellers up forward.
We can cop that.
It's playing the absolute crabs week in week out for the last 18 months that people have a problem with.
It's also not purely about the win/loss. If we were 0-5 and had pushed and fought for the majority of the games against tough opposition, you could cop it. Apart from the Fremantle half, we have rolled over completely for massive portions of all the games. It's unacceptable.
We have more than enough of a senior core to be competitive.
And for the record, Hawthorn started the 2006 season 4-1. They won 9 games for the year, so those posts aren't what you think they are. There are certainly no "parallels" to this current North side.
Wishing there to be parallels because Clarkson did it almost 2 decades ago, doesn't mean it will or is happening.
Clarkson won 14 games across his first two seasons at Hawthorn, he will struggle to achieve that in his first 4 here at his current win rate.
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Thread's good for a giggle on a chilly Monday morning. Every day there's a new take. Kudos Roscoe.
Sack Clarksons....LOL....gold.
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Sack Clarksons....LOL....gold.
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Even if he has lost touch tactically, I think the player development side of his coaching is as strong as ever. Clarksons final years at the Hawks may not have led to a ton of wins, but from a player development perspective, he was doing some great work with what he was able to get out of some limited players like Lewis, Worpel, Jiath, and Moore.
The outside perception of our club in recent years is that we've had an issue with our drafting and development, but already this year we've seen career-best form from Comben, Powell, Curtis, Xerri, and Sheezel, with some nice moments from Drury, Ford, Nyuon, K. Dawson, Wardlaw, Duursma, McKercher, and Goater, suggesting that those issues are a thing of the past.
As long as we keep making that progress, you have to keep him on board.
The outside perception of our club in recent years is that we've had an issue with our drafting and development, but already this year we've seen career-best form from Comben, Powell, Curtis, Xerri, and Sheezel, with some nice moments from Drury, Ford, Nyuon, K. Dawson, Wardlaw, Duursma, McKercher, and Goater, suggesting that those issues are a thing of the past.
As long as we keep making that progress, you have to keep him on board.
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It blows my mind that so many people believe in ‘miracles’ !
This job may very well be beyond anyone...but you work to bring in a bloke who could've taken other jobs, and hand him the keys to this...you've got to give him a chance.
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The old saying goes that "Rome wasn't built in a day". The issues at North I believe are more psychological among the player group at this point in time. I think that the players have lost confidence in their ability to get in front and to keep it together when they are competing. Let's face it, confidence and winning go hand in hand. When you believe that you are the best or that your team is the best then that becomes lethal to your opponents. In truth our players are just as fit and every bit as capable as any in the league. But I sadly doubt that a single player at North Melbourne at present genuinely takes to the field resolved in the belief (like a Wayne Carey or a Glenn Archer) that he is the best player or that he is playing as part of the best team in the league. The simple truth is that they have to start winning and develop a real taste for it.
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- Dec 7, 2016
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Yes Alistair and the rest of the coaching team have their work cut out for them. You've summed it up brilliantly in a sentence and an image. This is metaphorically speaking what Alistair started with. He came to a club still reeling from the sacking of a long-term coach, the whinging and division wrought from JHF and a group having played the team's worst season in 50 years. I am not expecting miracles at all yet, but we might hope to see the team improve over the remaining rounds as long as we avoid injuries.This job may very well be beyond anyone...but you work to bring in a bloke who could've taken other jobs, and hand him the keys to this...you've got to give him a chance.
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We needed to get Clarkson. The question is what impact the off field stuff has had on him.
Only Forwards
Just you wait and see
Not wanting to devolve into feelpinions else I will wind up like the one too many concussions Rossco.
but
We are squarely in an experimenting stage. We are seeing Bailey Scott on the half back line like we are unsure what he brings there?
There are a bunch of knowns that we are playing like by playing them they are gonna change. Stephens anywhere on the ground, Fisher defensively. In fact the whole defensive make up is KPD, Luke Mcdonald and players who don't really defend.
Per the latest shinboner we concede space at centre bounces before we start followed by being reliant on a ruckman to tap it to slivers of space that he may not be capable of.
Tie into that that we have dialled up offense in the midfield, where we are asking LDU (who isn't in the leadership group) to lead the midfield, set the tone, be offensive and defensive and break tags with little to no help. To assist him, we have surrounded him by kids.
In fact I asked my son (who went yesterday) if LDU looked like he'd checked out and he said no he looks like a guy with the weight of the world on his shoulders, like he knows he is supposed to be a player that lifts us out of this while being all the things I listed above. This doesn't make me fear losing him it makes me fear breaking him.
We have a forward line where our biggest marking power comes from Curtis or Duursma. Having played games this year with no second KPF, a KPF who is very far from making it and is now behind an achillies, and a kid in his first game. We have blokes in the forward line who have copped death threats because that is gonna help.
All of this is compounded by the fact we have poor leadership and for some time now. We have had senior players who we never in the top echelon of AFL players. I am not just talking about blokes like Corr. I am talking about for the majority of this rebuild even before it. The standards you walk past is the standards you accept. there have been a glut of leaders through this club who could voacalise but not execute. which is what we have now.
I get that Ws & Ls are not the metric that we are measuring this year. However we have fielded sides where we have struggled to break even in single positions.
The team is clearly under immense pressure and a lot of that pressure is being poured onto kids.
However the pressure is added to by asking questions we already know the answers to.
I would like to see us take a run of games where rather than trying to find the edges of what we are capable of we actually line the side up where each line is given a chance to play to its strengths.
Only Forwards
Just you wait and see
2 full seasons where we are not dragged into something stupid off field would do the entire club the world of good.
The biggest hole in the football part of the club is stability.
- Mar 24, 2011
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the mind is an incredible tool, like you say belief will enable the brain to push the body harder through release of adrenaline. you saw this with west coast getting on top of Richmond yesterday, once they were smashing them they were never dropping that game,The old saying goes that "Rome wasn't built in a day". The issues at North I believe are more psychological among the player group at this point in time. I think that the players have lost confidence in their ability to get in front and to keep it together when they are competing. Let's face it, confidence and winning go hand in hand. When you believe that you are the best or that your team is the best then that becomes lethal to your opponents. In truth our players are just as fit and every bit as capable as any in the league. But I sadly doubt that a single player at North Melbourne at present genuinely takes to the field resolved in the belief (like a Wayne Carey or a Glenn Archer) that he is the best player or that he is playing as part of the best team in the league. The simple truth is that they have to start winning and develop a real taste for it.
Another example is 2 marathon runners finish a race over 3 and a bit hours with seconds separating them, the winner looks to have all the energy in the world after the race where the runner up is mentally broke, the only difference is the winners brain had emitted adrenaline due to the euphoria of winning, its a positive feedback loop.
But its also not something that is sustainable without putting in the work beforehand, sadly we are in the position where collectively we haven't developed to the point of running the sub 4 hour marathon yet.
After following the WC game yesterday the collective wank was over Harley Reid, (and possibly rightly so as he played a blinder), but have a look at the other 4 blokes that smashed the tigers, other than kelly ( 3 months off) all in their 30s. we simply don't have that level of support for our young brigade.
15 | Cripps, Jamie | 233 | 31yr 11mth | 23 Apr 1992 | 184cm | 83kg | East Fremantle | Forward |
27 | Darling, Jack | 282 | 31yr 10mth | 13 Jun 1992 | 191cm | 95kg | West Perth | Forward |
| | | | |||||
6 | Yeo, Elliot | 197 | 30yr 6mth | 1 Oct 1993 | 191cm | 91kg | East Fremantle | Defender Midfield |
11 | Kelly, Tim | 129 | 29yr 8mth | 26 Jul 1994 | 184cm | 83kg | South Fremantle | Midfield |
WayneShimmiesTheBush
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Look I am as frustrated as anyone but I do find the call to get rid of Clarko laughable. The guy signed a 5 year deal because he knew this wasn't going to be a quick turnaround. And people can say "he signed up for that long because he is on big money". That may be true but if you think he wouldn't have gotten a truck load more at a bigger club, then you are kidding yourself. He chose us knowing what a mess we were, and he deserves a clear run at turning things around. The way I see it, you can basically write-off his first year thanks to that Hawthorn scandal and view this as his first real year in charge.
The guy is the best modern day coach of the modern era, just be happy that he will be in charge of getting us back to being competitive again. I am sure he is not stupid and he knows where we're at and where we need to improve. One of the positive things this year is, its not the kids that are letting us down but the senior players. If it was the other way around, then I would be absolutely worried as hell. I believe he will put the club on the shoulders of these kids to turn our fortunes around, and when they do, it will make the climb back up the ladder even sweeter.
You don't win 4 premierships without knowing what you are doing. And before people say he was lucky to have such a great list, you might as well say that to every single premiership coach out there.
The guy is the best modern day coach of the modern era, just be happy that he will be in charge of getting us back to being competitive again. I am sure he is not stupid and he knows where we're at and where we need to improve. One of the positive things this year is, its not the kids that are letting us down but the senior players. If it was the other way around, then I would be absolutely worried as hell. I believe he will put the club on the shoulders of these kids to turn our fortunes around, and when they do, it will make the climb back up the ladder even sweeter.
You don't win 4 premierships without knowing what you are doing. And before people say he was lucky to have such a great list, you might as well say that to every single premiership coach out there.
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Just in case more retrospective back patting for David Noble pops up, I think the differences between Clarkson and Noble need to be pointed out.
2021 was a decently coached year, however it was partly on the back of some good form from Ben Cunnington, Robbie Tarrant, Tarryn Thomas, Aaron Hall, Taylor Garner, Shaun Atley, Trent Dumont, Jack Ziebell, Todd Goldstein, Ben McKay, and Jed Anderson, who I'm sure Clarkson would kill to have this year. Some of those names aren't world beaters, but you'd certainly take them over Darcy Tucker and Dylan Stephens. 2021 Ben Cunnington in the middle for this side would completely transform us, as would the leadership of Tarrant down back. At this stage I'd just be happy to have back the 2021 form of Jy Simpkin.
Four wins was in retrospect the bare minimum for what that side should have achieved, and was only celebrated for being less of a disaster than 2020.
In 2022 David Noble completely dropped the process of rebuilding and put career preservation ahead of team development. He didn't trust the kids, and played as much experience as he possibly could. The only purpose of his gameplan was to limit scores conceded in an attempt to extend his own contract.
It was rock bottom for us, because it was a year that extinguished all signs of hope. JHF was one of the few decently performing kids we had, but he played the entire year with one foot out the door. People talk about our rock bottom being right now, but at least now we're seeing names like Sheezel, Powell, Wardlaw, and Comben show glimpses of what we're building towards.
Clarkson is conceding clearances, but it's to give opportunities to Wardlaw and Powell. We're conceding scores down back, but are offering a lot of opportunity to inexperienced defenders. With Clarkson, there is at least a purpose to all of this losing.
It's the long-term security Clarkson has that allows this. If you put him on the hot seat, then suddenly perhaps we're seeing a midfield of LDU, Simpkin, and Greenwood. It would be more competitive against the best sides, but at what cost? There has to be an end to all of this, and for me personally, the approach Clarkson is taking has me confident that we'll eventually get there.
2021 was a decently coached year, however it was partly on the back of some good form from Ben Cunnington, Robbie Tarrant, Tarryn Thomas, Aaron Hall, Taylor Garner, Shaun Atley, Trent Dumont, Jack Ziebell, Todd Goldstein, Ben McKay, and Jed Anderson, who I'm sure Clarkson would kill to have this year. Some of those names aren't world beaters, but you'd certainly take them over Darcy Tucker and Dylan Stephens. 2021 Ben Cunnington in the middle for this side would completely transform us, as would the leadership of Tarrant down back. At this stage I'd just be happy to have back the 2021 form of Jy Simpkin.
Four wins was in retrospect the bare minimum for what that side should have achieved, and was only celebrated for being less of a disaster than 2020.
In 2022 David Noble completely dropped the process of rebuilding and put career preservation ahead of team development. He didn't trust the kids, and played as much experience as he possibly could. The only purpose of his gameplan was to limit scores conceded in an attempt to extend his own contract.
It was rock bottom for us, because it was a year that extinguished all signs of hope. JHF was one of the few decently performing kids we had, but he played the entire year with one foot out the door. People talk about our rock bottom being right now, but at least now we're seeing names like Sheezel, Powell, Wardlaw, and Comben show glimpses of what we're building towards.
Clarkson is conceding clearances, but it's to give opportunities to Wardlaw and Powell. We're conceding scores down back, but are offering a lot of opportunity to inexperienced defenders. With Clarkson, there is at least a purpose to all of this losing.
It's the long-term security Clarkson has that allows this. If you put him on the hot seat, then suddenly perhaps we're seeing a midfield of LDU, Simpkin, and Greenwood. It would be more competitive against the best sides, but at what cost? There has to be an end to all of this, and for me personally, the approach Clarkson is taking has me confident that we'll eventually get there.
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That's a reasonable assessment.
Chadwiko
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Understand exactly what you're saying Mixed Results and generally agree, but also just want to counter your assertion a little bit;
This notion that Noble played veterans over kids, and Clarkson is prioritising youth, is a little misleading.
Don't forget that under Clarkson we've brought in guys like Daniel Howe, Liam Shiels, Darcy Tucker, Zac Fisher, and Dylan Stephens. They all got games ahead of guys like Bergman, Goater, Ford, Archer, etc etc.
This notion that Noble played veterans over kids, and Clarkson is prioritising youth, is a little misleading.
Don't forget that under Clarkson we've brought in guys like Daniel Howe, Liam Shiels, Darcy Tucker, Zac Fisher, and Dylan Stephens. They all got games ahead of guys like Bergman, Goater, Ford, Archer, etc etc.
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Fyi - I've moved my own corro and replies in this thread today to the Clarkson coaching thread.
If anyone else wants their content moved on similar lines let me know. I'm not interested in pumping up a Sack Clarkson thread at this point in time, some of you might also feel the same.
If anyone else wants their content moved on similar lines let me know. I'm not interested in pumping up a Sack Clarkson thread at this point in time, some of you might also feel the same.
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I'd prefer to keep it separate from the Clarkson thread, by the end of next year it will either be relevant or comedic fodder.
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didn't sheedy and cameron get that with GWS...? yet we can't afford that with clarkson? if you go too hard too early on the margin of games the coach will just try and be competitive but not actually win, and we'll just be an 'honourable loss' team.
plus norths % last year was 71%, that's not a 10 goal average losing margin....
- Mar 24, 2011
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Percentage depends on what both teams score, given we couldn't kick 10 goals in many games last year the oppo dont have to score a lot for poor percentage our way, so say a 10 goal oppo versus 4 goal us ( 40%) is worse percentage than 10 goals versus 20. ( 50%) and that not even taking into account our first 5 games have been against 5 of the top 7 teams with the only one out being Brisbane that played off in last years GF.
It's actually amazing he took the job on. Definitely chose the harder task. Yze and Mitchell have premiership cores to guide kids.
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