Bye bye Clarkson

[Ichiro #51]

Person 1: I’ve never watched Breaking Bad. The missus and I are going to start watching it.

Person 2: oh it’s awesome. But remember when you’re watching it, it really starts off slow and the first season takes a while to get into it. But it builds and then season after season it gets better and better.

Person 1: how good. Can’t wait.

Person 2: you will love it. But remember what I said, you gotta push through the early stuff, to get the good stuff. She might be a hard watch early, but stick it out.

Person 1: yeah, I f**king get. Push through.

*25 minutes into the second episode
Person 1: this show is f***king sh**house

On reddit 15 minutes later, person 1 typing ‘breaking bad is the worst show on television’

Breaking Bad does fall down in the last season and a half. Better Call Saul is a much better show in terms of it’s best moments and it’s consistency across it’s run.

 

[RossHenshaw]

Why is this thread still up?

 

[Only Forwards]

Why is this thread still up?

Let me tell you a story about Ross Henshaw.

As a footballer in the 70s he was whatever he was.

In the 20teens he was an old bloke who one of the fathers at my sons footy paid $50 to to come down and give a rambling chat to the team as they progressed through finals.

His stories were this rambling confusion of who did what nearly half a century earlier. The boys were lost in the story and I don’t mean in amazement I mean more like, ‘what the f*** is this old bloke on about’.

Anyway the kids got bewildered, the dad that organised it seemed to be happy enough, I mean not that he’d done 4/5ths of anything else through the year, Ross got his $50 so he was happy.

The boys lost the following weekend so whatever it was meant to do it didn’t.

That night and this thread are the same sorts of rambling incoherent bullshit, except this time any 15 year olds are here by choice and not like some captive audience losing footballing knowledge by listening to Ross.

 

[Gasometer]

Breaking Bad does fall down in the last season and a half. Better Call Saul is a much better show in terms of it’s best moments and it’s consistency across it’s run.

It’s like comparing Carey with McKernan

Just don’t

 

[Gasometer]

Let me tell you a story about Ross Henshaw.

As a footballer in the 70s he was whatever he was.

In the 20teens he was an old bloke who one of the fathers at my sons footy paid $50 to to come down and give a rambling chat to the team as they progressed through finals.

His stories were this rambling confusion of who did what nearly half a century earlier. The boys were lost in the story and I don’t mean in amazement I mean more like, ‘what the f*** is this old bloke on about’.

Anyway the kids got bewildered, the dad that organised it seemed to be happy enough, I mean not that he’d done 4/5ths of anything else through the year, Ross got his $50 so he was happy.

The boys lost the following weekend so whatever it was meant to do it didn’t.

That night and this thread are the same sorts of rambling incoherent bullshit, except this time any 15 year olds are here by choice and not like some captive audience losing footballing knowledge by listening to Ross.

I just remember Henshaw as being a whipping boy in the 70’s. If BF was around he would have been trending in the top 10 threads weekly.

 

[Danni_Benson]

When we landed Clarko, I honestly believed that EFFORT would be not negotiable.
I got that wrong.

I said it last year - if Clarko gets us competitive within 5 years, it’ll be his greatest coaching achievement.

But as it stands, I’m not convinced he is what we thought he was. Game plan, recruiting, selections……nothing impressive at all.

Hopefully his next 3 years are better than his first 2.

Has it really been 2 years for Clarkson in a coaching football sense??? I don’t think so….

 

[Only Forwards]

I just remember Henshaw as being a whipping boy in the 70’s. If BF was around he would have been trending in the top 10 threads weekly.

Did he get concussed a lot?

 

[Gasometer]

Did he get concussed a lot?

Not sure but I remember the terraces at Arden St groaning “oh Henshaw”

Twinkletoes and Horace any recollections on the other Ross of that era?

 

[gokangas]

Ross Henshaw was a capable half back or pocket - one of those regular players who was never going to be a superstar but was a 100% tryer. Played 167 games and in two premiership teams. Deserves respect. Genuine shinboner.

 

[RossHenshaw]

Ross Henshaw was a capable half back or pocket - one of those regular players who was never going to be a superstar but was a 100% tryer. Played 167 games and in two premiership teams. Deserves respect. Genuine shinboner.

Thank you .
Finally Someone that knows some NMFC history. Ross H was a dual premiership player (first premiership in 75' & 77') & ultimate shinboner who tried his arse off and who played 167 more VFL games than a lot of duds here. Played under Barassi in our 70's golden era . Would not have survived under Barassi if he was no good. So all the knockers here can duck off. !!!
Respect please.

 

[Sphynx]

Has it really been 2 years for Clarkson in a coaching football sense??? I don’t think so….

It's obviously been an extremely difficult 2 years for him.

But the above is a bit of a cop out I have read repeatedly in the last few weeks

• Clarko was announced in August 2022.
• The racism article dropped in September 2022.
• The North Melbourne board met in late October 2022 and approved his start date as North coach on November 1st 2022.
• Video of his first preseason training sesson back for the first time on Feb 21 2023.
• Clarko stood down from North on May 18 (Round 10) last year for mental health.
• The AFL terminated the AFL investigation on May 30th of that year.
• He returned to the the club on the 4th August (Round 21)
• Remained coach since.

He's missed about 3-4 months in the soon to be 2 years since he was appointed in August 2022, which was reported by all and sundry at the time that he was already rolling his sleeves up immediately.

He was involved in trade week/draft as well as preseason for season 2023, despite people now ignoring that. (We know this because Daniel Howe, Liam Shiels and Josh Gibson are all recruited to the club)

He had all of trade week/draft, as well as preseason for season 2024.


He's had as much time to implement a functional game plan as both Noble and Shaw received.



Talk of sacking him is ridiculous, but criticism of his results to date are absolutely warranted. He looks more Barrassi at Sydney or Pagan at Carlton at the moment than the coach he was at Hawthorn.

His team selections are Brad Scotts levels of crap, game day tactics very stagnant and not much of a plan B from what I can see. His "recruitment" has been horrible also. Howe, Shiels, Tucker and Stephens were all Clarkson picks 'apparently'

Jury is very much out on this ultra attacking game plan off of D50 launches even working against recent premiers who's game plan is all based on F50 pressure and forward half pressure and turnover game.

All the best sides are the best pressure and defensive sides in the league, we are the worst in this aspect and a big portion of it revolves around the game plan and how exposed this running forward leaves the D50 on simple turnover. We are nowhere near fit enough to play this style either.

 

[pooley]

Thank you .
Finally Someone that knows some NMFC history. Ross H was a dual premiership player (first premiership in 75' & 77') & ultimate shinboner who tried his arse off and who played 167 more VFL games than a lot of duds here. Played under Barassi in our 70's golden era . Would not have survived under Barassi if he was no good. So all the knockers here can duck off. !!!
Respect please.

Henshaw was a whipping boy in the early 70s when we were lousy. He played on the wing and wasn't much good. Total turn around with the move to back pocket (credit to RDB).

I seem to recall that Ross Henshaw married a 70s "supermodel" who was the daughter of a prominent bookmaker. Just some extra 70s trivia for you.

 

[Ry009]

Not happy with the effort either, but as mentioned earlier - some would say he's had a fair interrupted time so far.

We have almost 15 years of a culture of low to middle standards that still needs to be wrung out of the club.

I get the angst and extended period of shitness, but I would be judging Clarko middle of next year. And as also has been said, we need a tonne of stability.

While the fadeouts have been extremely disappointing and not acceptable - we've shown we can hang with the top half of the ladder for periods.

It's not fun now, but we're a long way off Noble-esque writing off.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

It's obviously been an extremely difficult 2 years for him.

But the above is a bit of a cop out I have read repeatedly in the last few weeks

• Clarko was announced in August 2022.
• The racism article dropped in September 2022.
• The North Melbourne board met in late October 2022 and approved his start date as North coach on November 1st 2022.
• Video of his first preseason training sesson back for the first time on Feb 21 2023.
• Clarko stood down from North on May 18 (Round 10) last year for mental health.
• The AFL terminated the AFL investigation on May 30th of that year.
• He returned to the the club on the 4th August (Round 21)
• Remained coach since.

He's missed about 3-4 months in the soon to be 2 years since he was appointed in August 2022, which was reported by all and sundry at the time that he was already rolling his sleeves up immediately.

He was involved in trade week/draft as well as preseason for season 2023, despite people now ignoring that. (We know this because Daniel Howe, Liam Shiels and Josh Gibson are all recruited to the club)

He had all of trade week/draft, as well as preseason for season 2024.


He's had as much time to implement a functional game plan as both Noble and Shaw received.



Talk of sacking him is ridiculous, but criticism of his results to date are absolutely warranted. He looks more Barrassi at Sydney or Pagan at Carlton at the moment than the coach he was at Hawthorn.

His team selections are Brad Scotts levels of crap, game day tactics very stagnant and not much of a plan B from what I can see. His "recruitment" has been horrible also. Howe, Shiels, Tucker and Stephens were all Clarkson picks 'apparently'

Jury is very much out on this ultra attacking game plan off of D50 launches even working against recent premiers who's game plan is all based on F50 pressure and forward half pressure and turnover game.

All the best sides are the best pressure and defensive sides in the league, we are the worst in this aspect and a big portion of it revolves around the game plan and how exposed this running forward leaves the D50 on simple turnover. We are nowhere near fit enough to play this style either.

Good points.

But do you think if Chris Scott or Ken Hinkley had the team we have right now, or took over the team when Clarko did, that they would be getting better results than what Clarko has?

 

[Cyber_punk]

Why is this thread still up?

Yep get rid of it or just merge it into the bigger thread. It's his first full season. Not a good look at all and gives oppos posters more ammo..'oh look they are already turning on him lol'

 

[Passmore]

I just remember Henshaw as being a whipping boy in the 70’s. If BF was around he would have been trending in the top 10 threads weekly.

My mate's old man reckons Johnny Cassin was a bit of a whipping boy.

Mind you 27 games in '77 under Barassi was a fair effort.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[Gasometer]

My mate's old man reckons Johnny Cassin was a bit of a whipping boy.

Mind you 27 games in '77 under Barassi was a fair effort.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

Yeh there’s another one I forgot about

Sigh, back in those days most were Barassi Whipping B on any given day

“Bloody Keith”
(/Premiership player/Brownlow Keith)

 

[Sphynx]

Good points.

But do you think if Chris Scott or Ken Hinkley had the team we have right now, or took over the team when Clarko did, that they would be getting better results than what Clarko has?

It’s kind of irrelevant.

But. The counter argument is Kingsley and McRae as rookie coaches have both turned recent bottom two sides into contenders, quickly. We competed for spoons with both.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

It’s kind of irrelevant.

But. The counter argument is Kingsley and McRae as rookie coaches have both turned recent bottom two sides into contenders, quickly. We competed for spoons with both.

So if Kingsley or McRae had of taken the north job last year, you think we would be in similar position to GWS and Collingwood. It has little to do with the quality of the lists, more to do with the quality of coaching?

 

[Sphynx]

So if Kingsley or McRae had of taken the north job last year, you think we would be in similar position to GWS and Collingwood. It has little to do with the quality of the lists, more to do with the quality of coaching?

It's a pointless hypothetical, you can only judge them on their performances.

Kingsley and McRae have been great, Clarko's has been shit.

I think there's a fair bit of revisionism in saying either of them took over great lists.

Collingwood was slated to go through a massive period at the bottom like us when McRae took over, having been lucky to land Daicos after trading away their R1 pick.

GWS commentary was all around them missing their shot at the top and being a looming major problem for the AFL with not only finishing bottom 2, but also the exit of Cameron, Taranto and Hopper.

 

[Shermanator]

It's a pointless hypothetical, you can only judge them on their performances.

Kingsley and McRae have been great, Clarko's has been s**t.

I think there's a fair bit of revisionism in saying either of them took over great lists.

Collingwood was slated to go through a massive period at the bottom like us when McRae took over, having been lucky to land Daicos after trading away their R1 pick.

GWS commentary was all around them missing their shot at the top and being a looming major problem for the AFL with not only finishing bottom 2, but also the exit of Cameron, Taranto and Hopper.

Kingsley and McRae inherited stable lists, with incredible leaders that have been in and out of finals/GF's since 2016, they're both battle hardened teams with big game players.

Clarko inherited a bunch of bewildered players who've had 4 coaches in 4 years and a heap of off field turmoil, then almost immediately stepped into a steaming pile of Hawthorn shit that his former President left for him.

Pretty big difference..

 

[Sphynx]

Kingsley and McRae inherited stable lists, with incredible leaders that have been in and out of finals/GF's since 2016, they're both battle hardened teams with big game players.

Clarko inherited a bunch of bewildered players who've had 4 coaches in 4 years and a heap of off field turmoil, then almost immediately stepped into a steaming pile of Hawthorn s**t that his former President left for him.

Pretty big difference..

Kingsley most definately didn't inherit a stable list.

GWS all time leading goal kicker had just left.

He lost two of his best young midfielders and the likes of Coniglio and Kelly were considered just about cooked.

It's great recruitment in hindsight, but Hogan's recruitment was scoffed at to replace Cameron.


Now, you may have completely etched the Stephenson, Phillips, Treloar, Grundy saga out of your mind. But the Pies were under massive salary cap problems, had traded away future picks as part the Beams disaster trade and finished second last to us with 6 wins. The year prior Buckley snuck them into the 8 with 9 wins.

They traded Pick 2 for 24, 30 and 45 in the end. They lucked out with Daicos. We took JHF.

But then proceeded to recruit Lipinski, Hill, Frampton and even still managed to lose a recent R1 pick in that time (Henry).

Most were predicting a massive time down the bottom for Collingwood at the end of 2021.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

It's a pointless hypothetical, you can only judge them on their performances.

Kingsley and McRae have been great, Clarko's has been s**t.

I think there's a fair bit of revisionism in saying either of them took over great lists.

Collingwood was slated to go through a massive period at the bottom like us when McRae took over, having been lucky to land Daicos after trading away their R1 pick.

GWS commentary was all around them missing their shot at the top and being a looming major problem for the AFL with not only finishing bottom 2, but also the exit of Cameron, Taranto and Hopper.

I reckon you would struggle to find anyone at the time McRae took the pies job or Kingsley took the GWS job, that would of compared the lists at the time and said ours was even 60% of the quality of the lists they were taking on. GWS especially have drafted like men possessed since they started.

When Clarko came on, our list was most likely the worst list in the history of our game. We had our number 1 pick already out the door 12 months in, and we would have had 2, maybe 3 players that would get a gig at another club. 50% of the senior team would of been lucky to be playing VFL anywhere else.

Monster job. That’s why the 5 year deal is there, cause it will most likely take that long to fix 7 years of bad drafting and list management. People cranking it about ‘oh he brought in Tucker and Stephens and Howe and they are sh*t’, they are the only blokes that would come to challenge for positions in the team. Some different options. Why would anyone good come to our club right now.

Jesus Christ could come down from the heavens and coach us for 12 months and we would finish on 5 wins. Our list is poo, and until we actually get genuine AFL players on it, I’m happy to give one of the greatest coaches the game has had some time.

 

[Sphynx]

I reckon you would struggle to find anyone at the time McRae took the pies job or Kingsley took the GWS job, that would of compared the lists at the time and said ours was even 60% of the quality of the lists they were taking on. GWS especially have drafted like men possessed since they started.

When Clarko came on, our list was most likely the worst list in the history of our game. We had our number 1 pick already out the door 12 months in, and we would have had 2, maybe 3 players that would get a gig at another club. 50% of the senior team would of been lucky to be playing VFL anywhere else.

Monster job. That’s why the 5 year deal is there, cause it will most likely take that long to fix 7 years of bad drafting and list management. People cranking it about ‘oh he brought in Tucker and Stephens and Howe and they are sh*t’, they are the only blokes that would come to challenge for positions in the team. Some different options. Why would anyone good come to our club right now.

Jesus Christ could come down from the heavens and coach us for 12 months and we would finish on 5 wins. Our list is poo, and until we actually get genuine AFL players on it, I’m happy to give one of the greatest coaches the game has had some time.

This is the point though, we aren't at "When Clarko came on". That was almost 2 ****ing years ago. He's had 2 drafts with 7 x Round 1 draft picks as well as 2 trade weeks, of which he had multiple PP's at his disposal to start to right the ship.

I think you will find neither of GWS or Collingwood had 1/10 of the draft collateral he has had either during his tenure either.

The frustration isn't born from us being absolutely shit (well it is...), the main frustration is he hasn't moved the needle AT ALL, despite plenty of time at his disposal.

We are arguably as bad as we were last year, maybe even worse to this point. We are 0-4 with a % of 59% and no likely wins in the near future.

Our fitness levels still suck.

He's recruited and continually playing soft players.

etc etc.

Now, the next discussion point is value for money. He is one of the highest paid coaches in the league at the moment and hand on heart, I don't think he's providing us any more value than the right rookie coach would be giving us at the moment on 1/4 of the wage in my opnion.


He's on as much notice as the players until the end of the season. I really couldn't give a **** what he did 10 years ago for Hawthorn, you judge him on merit, here. He's been bad, very very bad. To date.

You want a good stat? Clarkson loses the next 3 games and David Noble will become a more successful NMFC coach than him in terms of win %. The list is immeasurably more talented now than it was in 2021 also.

 

[Blightys Barrel]

Let’s look at prior History when clubs bottom out and have a horrible club culture. Success takes time and there is no silver bullet here.
Melb Demons
Tanking, Bailey, Neeld, horrible picks, and Roos comes in and handoff to Goodwin + nail some class picks with Clarry/Trac etc .
2013 - 2 wins
2014 - 4 wins
2015 - 7 wins
2016 - 10 wins
2017 - 12 wins
2018 - 14 wins
2019 - 5 find (went off the rails)
2020 - 9 wins (back on the rails)
2021 - Win GF

Hawks
2004 - 4 wins
2005 - 5 wins
2006- 9 wins
2007 - 13 wins
2008 - Win GF

So what is par for the Club (not just Clarko, as its a team effort on and off the pitch right?) Here are 6 criteria I would like to see recorded at year’s end compared to last year.

1. Wins - from 2 to 4.
2. Average losing margin reduced by 40%
3. Team Disposal efficiency improve by 10%
4. Reduce turnovers/Clangers by 20%
5. Missed/Effective tackles improved by 20%.
6. Some endurance/fitness metric (yoyo runs, 2 KM etc) that improves by 5% as a group. Clearly we cannot run out a game atm, so need to address this.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the club to share this type of plan with its members. An old business adage that equally applies to sport. “What gets measured gets managed”.