Bye Bye GM & Toyota Pie

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Hang on, they are party arguments. I think it's clear from what you have said on the asylum seekers bit that no matter the stats you'll believe what you want, you asked for them, got them and now don't want to accept them, so I won't bother any further on that.

On the PHI it sounds like it's is what I said I thought the increase would be, the insurance costs are pushing the health insurance costs to us through the roof. If you want to take away the rebate for PHI that is fine but at the same time you can take away the medicare surcharge levy and I think that would be fine but I would increase a huge premium increase to correct the change.
 
Back to Tesla

National Geographic - Megafactories program went and did a doco on their factor in Fremont California on the other side of the bay from Palo Alto. They took over the old GM-Toyota JV plant New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc.NUMMI One of the simple things they did was paint the plant white and let natural light in.
The Model S is featured. At 16:00 they show how much space is at the back - you can add 2 seats - and at 16:40 we get introduced to the Frunk - the trunk at the front as there is no combustion engine needed.



Somebody did this 31 minute video of the Model S including showing all the electronic and taking it for a drive. Have a look at the remote for the car from 0:45 - classic Silicon Valley design - a normal car company wouldn't have designed it this way.



In February 2012 Tesla released their SUV Model X with the promise that a small number would be sold in late 2013 and volume production in 2014. That now has been changed to late 2014 and 2015 respectively.

At 15:00 you get to see the amazing Falcon Wing Doors.

 
StrappingTape said:
Hang on, they are party arguments. I think it's clear from what you have said on the asylum seekers bit that no matter the stats you'll believe what you want, you asked for them, got them and now don't want to accept them, so I won't bother any further on that.
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That statement applies equally to you. I'm not denying the stats just your misrepresentation of them. Just one example, you said

Boat people don't work, was it 90% of the rent seekers these days are still unemployed after 5 years
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I quoted from the link you provided that stated after 4 years 40% of humanitarian entrants had some form of job. So what I don't accept are your made up stats.

You still can't grasp even simple concepts like the difference between asylum seekers and refugees (both groups you just want to demonise anyway) so you're right, it's best you don't talk about it any more.

On the PHI it sounds like it's is what I said I thought the increase would be, the insurance costs are pushing the health insurance costs to us through the roof. If you want to take away the rebate for PHI that is fine but at the same time you can take away the medicare surcharge levy and I think that would be fine but I would increase a huge premium increase to correct the change.
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That makes no sense. It's like you threw a whole bunch of words down and hoped it would obfuscate the discussion. You still haven't managed to provide any evidence for your assertion that people are getting off private health insurance and that drove the costs up again. Let alone the damage a bi-partisan government approach to continually subsidise the private health insurance industry multi-billion dollars does to the public health system. As acknowledged by leading health economists.

Here's another link this time to an article by Prof. Anthony Harris, Director of the Centre for Health Economic at Monash Uni, Things you should know about private health insurance rebates

You're the one who keeps throwing out party political arguments, I've pointed the finger at both governments for these policies.

Merry Christmas.
 

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Jay Weatherill stated that a number of industries, not just car makers, have expressed an interest in the Holden site.

International firms eye Holden site

A RANGE of international car companies have shown interest in using the Holden site for a new automotive enterprise once vacated in 2017, Premier Jay Weatherill has revealed.

"We're receiving unsolicited propositions from a range of companies and others that we've gone out and pursued ourselves. We're obviously working through them," Mr Weatherill said.
"It is sensible to consider other options and it's not just car manufacturers.
"There's also armoured vehicle manufacturers and other whole sectors that have completely different industry opportunities, for instance in the food industry.
"All of those things are on the table and they're being given consideration, too."
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International firms eye Holden site

Chrysler have a bit of a footprint in the Australian market, wouldn't it be great to see Valiant/Chryslers built locally again?

Maybe Renault would like to build in Australia ... Port (as usual) and Renault carrying the hopes of SA! :D

The US Army is planning on upgrades to existing tanks from 2017 (may be pushed out to 2019). There's a convenient timeline. Fly the Abrams into Edinburgh and roll them out to Elizabeth Holden. People would pay to watch the procession, never mind the Xmas Pageant! :p
 
Stanley_Park said:
Holden aren't leaving Australia because the workers are overpaid.

They are leaving because no one wants to buy their crap cars.

That's not the fault of the people working on the production lines.
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those things are arguably not as unrelated as you suggest

Look at the Germans. Do you think that the people who work on the Mercedes Benz, or BMW, or Volkswagen production lines get paid less then the Holden workers?
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Definitely a lot less
 
Ford Fairlane said:
The US Army is planning on upgrades to existing tanks from 2017 (may be pushed out to 2019). There's a convenient timeline. Fly the Abrams into Edinburgh and roll them out to Elizabeth Holden. People would pay to watch the procession, never mind the Xmas Pageant! :p
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Several years back I was chatting to a colleague that supplies the defence industry and he told me that the Holden plant was being used extensively for defence force contracts. There's supposedly a large underground tunnel system from the RAAF base to GMH to enable discrete transport of assets.

From memory, this was set up for those large, all-terrain vehicles we were building here.
 
bomberclifford said:
Several years back I was chatting to a colleague that supplies the defence industry and he told me that the Holden plant was being used extensively for defence force contracts. There's supposedly a large underground tunnel system from the RAAF base to GMH to enable discrete transport of assets.

From memory, this was set up for those large, all-terrain vehicles we were building here.
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I'm sure there are many graffiti taggers that than can confirm the existence of this tunnel! :p

Reminds me a day at high school in the northern suburbs where contractors were working on underground pipes and students were warned not to go into the tunnels. Sure enough three of my mates did and tagged their names on the wall. Sheer genius. We laughed as the announcement came over the PA system for students X, Y and Z to come to the Principal's office. :D
 
wharfie_1870 said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-25/nrn-dist-mining-subsidies/4778042
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I love mischievousness journalists who have no idea what the fuel tax was for.

It is to tax heavy vehicles for using public roads. The mining industry builds its own roads and maintains its own roads thus pays no tax when the fuel is used on these roads or for power generation.

When they use public roads they pay the tax.


So 1) there is no subsidy on fuel tax
2) mining companies pay 30% corporate tax. So the 21% quoted is misleading. Even a moron journalist understands timing difference and permanent difference which translates financial statements to tax.
3) they pay royalties to the state which are based on revenue but roughly translate to 10% of the mine head value. Then on top of that certain minerals are subject to the 22.5 MRRT less the royalty.
 
Power Raid said:
I love mischievousness journalists who have no idea what the fuel tax was for.

It is to tax heavy vehicles for using public roads. The mining industry builds its own roads and maintains its own roads thus pays no tax when the fuel is used on these roads or for power generation. .......
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Thanks for that explanation. :thumbsu:
 
WTF is the government doing about this? Car manufacturing is dead in Australia how about encouraging some viable alternative industries?

Source
Hanging up their labcoats: Australia's new brain drain


Last year, Professor Brendan Crabb of The Association of Australian Medical Research Institutes warned that "falling success rates on medical research grants will eventually reach breaking point and start seriously discouraging young researchers from sticking with their careers".
As a recent PhD graduate, it saddens me to inform Professor Crabb that this has been happening for some time now.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that Australian science now needs to recognise and address two distinct "brain-drain" phenomena: the original form whereby newly-minted scientists feel compelled to leave the country temporarily in order to kick-start their careers overseas; and a newer, more pernicious beast in which disenchanted young researchers are reluctantly giving up on careers in science altogether and are being lost permanently to other professions right here in Australia.
In my 10 years at the bench, I saw countless young PhDs leaving the lab shortly after graduating to retrain for careers in high-school teaching, engineering, medicine, sales, and the law. Indeed, I left after one year of post-doctoral work to pursue a career in business.
Of those who do remain in science, a large number still feel compelled to have a "plan B" just in case.
I know of no other profession with such a high attrition rate.
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http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/01/16/3926579.htm
More
 
Big Jay has come out with his rescue plan - hope the feds stump up 5 x what the state government does.

http://www.premier.sa.gov.au/images/news_releases/14_01Jan/holden.pdf

Premier Jay Weatherill has released the State Government’s response to the closure
of Holden’s Elizabeth plant and the challenges facing the community as a result of
Holden’s decision.
The response – Our Jobs Plan – includes a State Government commitment of $60
million over four years towards 14 initiatives to prepare South Australia for Holden’s
closure in 2017. The Federal Government is being asked to commit $330 million to
support South Australia in these efforts.

<snip>
Our Jobs Plan

Supporting displaced workers by:
- Introducing new programs that will re-skill and re-employ workers affected by GM
Holden’s closure

Supporting affected communities by:
- An employment strategy for northern Adelaide, attracting new growth industries and
maintaining public assets
- A Community Building Fund to invest in urban regeneration and local projects

Supporting restructuring of the automotive industry by:
- Expanding the Automotive Diversification Program to help automotive supply
businesses to find alternative markets and opportunities
- Helping about 200 companies providing up to 5500 jobs to diversify from the
automotive supply chain over the next four years
- Assisting the Industry Capability Network to manage the impact of firm closures
- Reviewing the future use of the GM Holden plant and site

Accelerating advanced manufacturing by:
- Developing industry roadmaps for new industries to support economic
diversification
- Supporting new smart specialisation clusters and precincts where future industries
can work together to innovate, create jobs and secure export growth
- Providing new Business Transformation Vouchers of up to $50,000 to support
about 200 small and medium enterprises to tap into expert advice that will help their
business to grow and diversify
- Expanding the Manufacturing Leaders Network to expose manufacturers to global
trends, expertise and knowledge about high performance manufacturing

Creating new jobs by:
- Establishing a new Jobs Acceleration Fund to assist businesses to invest in new
economic activity that creates jobs in South Australia
- Supporting local entrepreneurs to turn good ideas into successful ventures through
start-up initiatives

Accelerating infrastructure projects to create jobs by:
- Working with the Australian Government to bring forward high priority infrastructure
projects including: the Torrens to Torrens and South Road Darlington projects; the
northern connector; Eyre and Yorke Peninsula port infrastructure; sealing the
Strzelecki Track; reinstating funding to upgrade the main access road into the APY
Lands; upgrading Kingscote Airport; constructing the Mt Barker interchanges;
accelerating deployment of the National Broadband network.

http://www.premier.sa.gov.au/images/news_releases/14_01Jan/holden.pdf

and the libs have just laughed it off. They are probably half right because to attract new industries and entrepreneurs you have to do a bit more than talk and plan you actually have to have the right investment culture ie one that encourages investment and tells the NIMBY's to piss off not panic at every community whinge, but also don't oversell something as the be all and end all answer.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-holden-response/story-e6frgczx-1226806739980
THE Coalition has attacked South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill's proposed Holden response plan as "blatant made-for-TV politicking".
Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane this afternoon appeared to dismiss out-of-hand the state Labor government's response document, which calls for up to $2.8 billion in federal funding for infrastructure projects and transition funding for businesses affected by the carmaker's 2017 closure.
The figure includes $333m for retraining and diversification programs, and $2.6bn for infrastructure projects.
Releasing the state government's formal response document to the carmaker's exit earlier today, Mr Weatherill said the federal government contribution would be about one-third of the funding that would otherwise have been paid in auto industry assistance.
But Mr Macfarlane said the government would pursue its own process, which did not rely on short-term stimulus measures.
"The Australian government is taking a methodical, considered and informed approach to mapping the future of manufacturing in South Australia, in contrast to the blatant made-for-TV politicking and grandstanding by the South Australian Premier," he said.
"If it's a choice between substance and show - the Coalition chooses substance and consultation over glossy brochures and news sound bites.
"The Australian government is focused on laying the foundations for the long term future of South Australian manufacturing, not on applying short-term solutions or taxpayer-funded Band-Aids
"South Australia is currently sitting at a crossroads with a looming opportunity to develop a new approach to industry and manufacturing. We need to build on the sectors of the future according to our emerging strengths.''
The comments come ahead of a federal government-convened manufacturing and industry economic review forum for the state, which will take place in Adelaide next month.
This forum is aimed at providing the government with advice on how to direct the previously announced $100 million "growth fund" earmarked for responding to Holden's closure.
Instead, Mr Weatherill wants the Commonwealth to co-fund its response plan, which will include $60m from the state government. <snip>
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-holden-response/story-e6frgczx-1226806739980
 

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Real innovation would be to convince Elon Musk to open up the right hand drive vehicle production plant at Elizabeth when Holdens finish up, especially the Model S - mid range car but will probably cost closer to $70k in 2017. There are 24mil in Oz who potentially drive on the RHS, 30mil in Malaysia, 4mil in NZ, 240mil in Indonesia, 60mil in Thailand, 1,100mil in India, 300mil in Pakistan+Bangladesh, 130mil in Japan, 6mil in HK, 6 mil in Singapore and 45mil in South Africa. That's a big enough market to have a crack at.

Implement @Portia's idea that electric vehicles built in Oz are FBT free. That would encourage the top end of town to buy them and save $15,000 FBT over a $70k+ equivalent car. Oh yeah and piss off the Luxury Car Tax (LCT) from a poultry exemption of $60k for normal cars and $75k for fuel efficient cars. Make it no tax on electric cars built in Oz. Don't know what LCT is? Its a 33% tax on cars over the $60k or $75k thresholds.

http://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publica...?page=3#LCT_payable_on_supplying_a_luxury_car

If the Model S can do this in the snow and freezing rain of Norway it will be a breeze in Oz.

 
Dobie G said:
Goodbye car manufacturing. Hello recession :(
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Recession, you reckon things are that bad? I gotta say watching the world markets, it's not looking great for anyone right now. I don't think the Toyota announcement is too huge a news as it's pretty much expected.
 
StrappingTape said:
Recession, you reckon things are that bad? I gotta say watching the world markets, it's not looking great for anyone right now. I don't think the Toyota announcement is too huge a news as it's pretty much expected.
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Atm the world economy is looking ok, but locally for Australia the closure of all the car plants and support industries will cause shock waves in the economy and unless the government seriously helps car workers to find alternative jobs in the next few years, the unemployment rate has to increase.
 
the next twenty years could be tough in many parts of Australia

SA, Tassie and Victoria will probably feel the pinch the most and culturally they are the least likely to be able to cope with a down turn
 
Elon Musk is in town selling his batteries to SA government. I bloody hope that the government is talking to him about SpaceX and Woomera and Tesla and that soon to be vacant car plant in Elizabeth.

I have agitated as many government officials as I can, since about 2 weeks after I first posted in this thread back in December 2013, to get a delegation to go talk to Musk in Palo Alto, about Solar City and solar panels and renewable energy and batteries which since then was rolled into Tesla Inc, about Tesla building right hand drive vehicles for Oz and Asia in Elizabeth and bring his SpaceX reusable Falcon Rockets to Woomera to launch satellites even if they are those shoe box size ones known as dove satellites. I have hassled a few people but nobody seemed to get it enough to get that delegation over there to Palo Alto.

Musk was always coming to Adelaide in the week leading up to the AFL Grand Final. The 68th International Astronautical Congress will be in Adelaide between 25th and 29th September. About 4,000 people from the space industry from around the world will be attending, a few astronauts including Andy Thomas and maybe a couple of blokes who walked on the moon.

I know the last many man who took a step on the moon Eugene Cerman, had accepted an invite to Congress in Adelaide, but he unfortunately died in January. He and fellow Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmitt had a running debate, good natured, who was the last man on the moon, as Cerman as commander stepped onto the moon first out of Apollo 17's Lunar Module Challenger, followed by Schmitt. One says he was the last man onto the moon the other says he was the last man to take a step on the moon, so both claim they were the last man on the moon.

I know the guy who worked on it for over 3 years to get the IAC here to Adelaide, having to pull out of bidding for 2014 Congress because the Convention Centre was being redeveloped. He now is in charge of running the whole show. I want to go to the Congress but cant justify the $1,600 delegate fee. For any space nuts, you can read more at
http://www.iac2017.org/

I caught up with him, invited him to Club1870 event at Adelaide Oval in March - he is a Port Adelaide member. It was a a couple of weeks after Atlassian billionaire Mike Cannon-Brookes had tweeted Musk to come and help solve SA's power problem. I know my friend made suggestions to the Premier about it, but I got a bit pissed off when nothing happened. Hopefully in the next week or two, I will be pleasantly surprised that a full blown feasibility study will be announced by the Musk and the SA government to investigate the possibilities of Tesla and Elizabeth and SpaceX and Woomera. There could be some serendipity out of that big storm and power failure in September last year and load shedding event in February this year.
 
Yes let's get the worlds biggest grifter here to give him even more government money for more failed projects that he can just roll up into his huge gov cash Tesla empire when the trough runs out. Go read up on Solar City and Tesla is about to get found to have no clothes too. Fact is the one thing he's got looking a chance is spaceX which just happens to be running off proven things. I got no problem with innovation and people having a go but give me $5billion in US gov grants and I'll build you a sexy electric sports car and a bunch of other battery tech that never works as spruiked.
 
StrappingTape said:
Yes let's get the worlds biggest grifter here to give him even more government money for more failed projects that he can just roll up into his huge gov cash Tesla empire when the trough runs out. Go read up on Solar City and Tesla is about to get found to have no clothes too. Fact is the one thing he's got looking a chance is spaceX which just happens to be running off proven things. I got no problem with innovation and people having a go but give me $5billion in US gov grants and I'll build you a sexy electric sports car and a bunch of other battery tech that never works as spruiked.
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So why dont you give us some links to these $5 billion grants so we can see how different they are to other subsidies big mulitnationals get in one form or another from governments all around the world. I dont think any big mutinational is virginal white when they look to expand manufacturing from one area inside their country to another area, let alone move to another country.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
So why dont you give us some links to these $5 billion grants so we can see how different they are to other subsidies big mulitnationals get in one form or another from governments all around the world. I dont think any big mutinational is virginal white when they look to expand manufacturing from one area inside their country to another area, let alone move to another country.
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It is well documented easy to find. The guys a great salesman but he is literally the monorail guy from the simpsons
 
StrappingTape said:
It is well documented easy to find. The guys a great salesman but he is literally the monorail guy from the simpsons
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Well then give me some links
 
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