C. Sylvia v F. Ray

Ray or Sylvia

  • Colin Sylvia

    Votes: 37 35.6%
  • Farren Ray

    Votes: 67 64.4%

  • Total voters
    104

blues4flag

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#51
Come to think of it, any kid with an inkling of talent, Carlton Fans overrate. Can't blame 'em, though.

But seriously.

Simpson & Walker are pumped up by their Fans way too much. They've improved, and aren't half bad players, but they aren't great players and still are behind a number of other young midfielders from other Clubs.
Simpson vs Ray:
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=103&pid1=2003012&tid2=115&pid2=2004098
Simpson averaged more disposals, marks (and contested marks), tackles, goals, less frees against (and more frees for, though really a useless stat), hitouts, first possessions, clearances, inside AND rebound 50s, contested and uncontested possessions, one percenters, less errors and more bounces.

In other words, every stat apart from long kicks and handballs. I think it's you who's overrating your player:) .
 

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#52
Simpson vs Ray:
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=103&pid1=2003012&tid2=115&pid2=2004098
Simpson averaged more disposals, marks (and contested marks), tackles, goals, less frees against (and more frees for, though really a useless stat), hitouts, first possessions, clearances, inside AND rebound 50s, contested and uncontested possessions, one percenters, less errors and more bounces.

In other words, every stat apart from long kicks and handballs. I think it's you who's overrating your player:) .
No; it's you, because you're another one who depends on stats. Stats - generally - mean nothing. Particuarly when comparing kids.

I've seen Simpson stuff up several kicks and not to mention, make some stupid decisions with the ball. I've been to a few Carlton games (My gf is a Blues fan) and have seen a few on TV, so I'm not making it up on the spot.

I agree Simpson made inroads, played well, but Ray is more composed, a better decision maker & in a much better team fighting for the ball with the likes of West, Cross, Boyd, Cooney, Griffen, Gilbee, McMahon etc.

Who has Simpson got in mutal competition? Stevens - Had a crap year. Murphy - injured.

My point is Ray is a better footballer in a better team - stats aside, they're meaningless - and he's influenced more games and had more of an effect on the competition as a whole, than Simpson.

Not to mention, Ray's 2 years younger.
 

blues4flag

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#53
No; it's you, because you're another one who depends on stats. Stats - generally - mean nothing. Particuarly when comparing kids.

I've seen Simpson stuff up several kicks and not to mention, make some stupid decisions with the ball. I've been to a few Carlton games (My gf is a Blues fan) and have seen a few on TV, so I'm not making it up on the spot.

I agree Simpson made inroads, played well, but Ray is more composed, a better decision maker & in a much better team fighting for the ball with the likes of West, Cross, Boyd, Cooney, Griffen, Gilbee, McMahon etc.

Who has Simpson got in mutal competition? Stevens - Had a crap year. Murphy - injured.

My point is Ray is a better footballer in a better team - stats aside, they're meaningless - and he's influenced more games and had more of an effect on the competition as a whole, than Simpson.

Not to mention, Ray's 2 years younger.
Numbers don't lie. Although I agree some stats are useless, others such as tackles, clearances, contested possessions, etc. do matter. It must tell you something when Simpson has Ray beat in basically every area. Simpson, although I agree, sometimes makes mistakes, it happens very rarely and generally he is very accurate. I'd much rather him take on the opposition and go for long runs than be conservative and not - risk vs return, and more often than not he does something. Simpson's 2006 was clearly better than Ray's, most neutral supporters would agree. And I'm not basing that on stats alone, Simpson had a fantastic season, but, as with a few of our players, playing in a wooden spoon side has resulted in him being underrated, by some at least.

On Ray being two years younger, that would help, but Simpson wasn't ready for AFL football and was always going to take long. Had Carlton not been stripped of our first two picks in 2002, I firmly believe the club would have opted for someone other than Simpson. But, having missed those picks, they took someone with a heap of potential, although always going to take long to mature and be ready for AFL football. He was a bit of a project player and he paid off, 2006 was practically his second season.
 
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#55
On Ray being two years younger, that would help, but Simpson wasn't ready for AFL football and was always going to take long. Had Carlton not been stripped of our first two picks in 2002, I firmly believe the club would have opted for someone other than Simpson. But, having missed those picks, they took someone with a heap of potential, although always going to take long to mature and be ready for AFL football. He was a bit of a project player and he paid off, 2006 was practically his second season.
Ray plays a different game than Simpson though. He doesn't play in the middle, he plays on the wing - hence he won't be scoring too many clearances. He's your classical wingman in that he's able to find space and really hurt the opposition. Ray is more of an outside player, although I definitely don't question his endeavour. Ray is not in as many contests as Simpson for this reason. He's prepared to sit back in the space. Thus, disposals, clearances, tackles will all be in favour of Simpson. I'm not taking anything away from Simpson, he impressed me, but I think Ray has done more to date.

Ray wasn't ready for AFL Football prior to 2006 either. He was drafted with Cooney, but was always going to take 2 or 3 years to develop. Only now has Ray (according to some) put on some weight and has been in the Top 5 for all the running drills. Ray didn't put in a full pre-season last year, he was in the rehab group for the most of it. So the fact that Simpson wasn't ready, or hasn't been ready until this year gives him no advantage as Ray has basically been in the same position. 2006 was their second season.

At 22 I think Ray will be a better Footballer then Simpson is now - although I think he already is - but I think it'll be more evident in 2 years time to others.

Nevertheless, both Clubs would be happy with their players.
 

Astro_

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#56
As a Melbourne supporter Ray has shown alot more. I would still take Sylvia though simply because he has been hampered by injuries. But...Sylvia is bloody frustrating to watch...he doesnt try and get the ball. He turns his back on the ball..runs in the opposite directions. It looks like he is trying to miss out on the play to avoid stuffing it up. I just feel like giving him a smack on the chops and tell him the start having a bloody crack. He has shown as many bad signs as Brock Mclean has shown good. And Sylvia is in a sling at the moment and doesnt even look like getting better.
...and based on your analysis above of Sylvia, you would still take him?

You have basically said Sylvia runs around like a headless chook.

Tell me your not bias.
 

The_Flying_Egg

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#57
On Ray being two years younger, that would help, but Simpson wasn't ready for AFL football and was always going to take long. .
And Farren was ready? Farren could get carried away by a strong wind when he was drafted, he was all skin and bones. Give Farren 2 years and see who's better
 

Silvagnis

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#58
If Ray was playing for the blues he would be in their top 3 midfielders. If Walker was playing with the dogs he would be in werribee.
After tonight's performance that is one of the funniest things I can recall reading on BigFooty and Ray isn't in Simpson's class as a footballer. Walker would have blossomed more than Ray and Hargrave playing on hacks with Griffen, Giansiracusa, Cross, Gilbee, Murphy, Hahn, West, Eagleton, Johnson, Grant, Darcy, Cooney and Smith taking the opposition's best. ;)

Ray was pretty quiet when they had nine stars out tonight. ;)

The Dogs running game plan would suit Walker to a T if he played on a wing on smaller opponents and he kicked long to the hotspot at every opportunity.

[YOUTUBE]8gJOqQtOjRs[/YOUTUBE]

Walker has so much talent compared to Hargrave who kicked out on the full of one step it's not funny. :D

I think Stevie Wonder has better vision than Ray after he handballed to a teammate who wasn't expecting it. :eek:
 
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