News Carlton parts ways with Cain Liddle - Post #400

[Brackets]

I hardly think my suggestion that Liddle had something to do with more is equivalent to a post deliberately full of poetic licence and embellishment. You probably didn't need to go there.

I'm responding to your comment of why there is narrative associating Liddle to Butler. I thought it naturally enticed further discussion.

Moore had no AFL form and average VFL form when he showed up at the club. I know he played with the junior club that Liddle has had plenty to do with. It's not as though my belief is far fetched.

I'm not suggesting it's a far fetched opinion, it may prove one day to be true. But the reasoning of there being a possible link with Moore holds true to Butler, so it just seems selective to connect him to the guy playing poorly yet ignore the one playing well.

 

[HARKER]

I think you’re purposely splitting hairs over irrelevant issues. I think the main issue is a breach of trust; and I believe its effect will eventually curb membership growth unless he departs.

We were going to hit 75K if not for covid and this was directly after the departure of SOS.
Record growth in the past two years, but somehow we now have to worry about a membership decline? How do you figure that?

Many people have been unhappy with our President for a number of years, but for a few, he's not the individual who supporters are going to point the finger at, for not signing on and neither will that be the case for Liddle.
If some had to 'protest' it would have been last year, but the uptake doesn't show a lot of damage done.

What happened, happened and our club is always open to in-fighting of one nature or another....even for all the talk of unity the past few years.
What a load of dribble that was. We are who we are and even the change of Presidency this year is unlikely to change that.

 

[Ricky Mott]

We were going to hit 75K if not for covid and this was directly after the departure of SOS.
Record growth in the past two years, but somehow we now have to worry about a membership decline? How do you figure that?

Many people have been unhappy with our President for a number of years, but for a few, he's not the individual who supporters are going to point the finger at, for not signing on and neither will that be the case for Liddle.
If some had to 'protest' it would have been last year, but the uptake doesn't show a lot of damage done.

What happened, happened and our club is always open to in-fighting of one nature or another....even for all the talk of unity the past few years.
What a load of dribble that was. We are who we are and even the change of Presidency this year is unlikely to change that.

Had nothing to do with the list!!
Not sure 5 years ago Liddle would have membership where it is today. Let’s be honest 65000 is just ok compared to the big four Melbourne clubs. Nothing special.

 

[HARKER]

Had nothing to do with the list!!
Not sure 5 years ago Liddle would have membership where it is today. Let’s be honest 65000 is just ok compared to the big four Melbourne clubs. Nothing special.

I don't want to do this all again, but look at the growth.
We can't help covid spoiling our plans (every teams plans) but we would have hit our stated target of 75K, by all indicators...maybe more.

Look at the rate of growth since Liddle arrived. That's all that needs to be said.

 

[Ricky Mott]

I don't want to do this all again, but look at the growth.
We can't help covid spoiling our plans (every teams plans) but we would have hit our stated target of 75K, by all indicators...maybe more.

Look at the rate of growth since Liddle arrived. That's all that needs to be said.

Let’s not use COVID as an excuse. If we don’t make finals blame COVID. Every club is dealing with COVID and some breaking records significantly. 65000 members is nothing more than just mediocre. If he was everything you say he is he would be bucking the trend.
Our club should have at least 85000 members.

 

[HARKER]

Let’s not use COVID as an excuse. If we don’t make finals blame COVID. Every club is dealing with COVID and some breaking records significantly. 65000 members is nothing more than just mediocre. If he was everything you say he is he would be bucking the trend.
Our club should have at least 85000 members.

Are you OK?

Take into account these facts -

1. We'd already surpassed our record membership numbers well before the start of the season and covid had an effect. Fact.
2. Liddle has only been at the club for two years and we've had record rates of increase...rates of increase. Look at the details and you'll find this fact.
3. Memberships don't jump normally exponentially on the back of winning wooden spoons....yet...

Let's use our growth rate of ~13% p.a. since Liddle joined and after 75K you get 85K. Presto....You have to look at facts, even if you don't want to.

 

[Opine]

We were going to hit 75K if not for covid and this was directly after the departure of SOS.
Record growth in the past two years, but somehow we now have to worry about a membership decline? How do you figure that?

Many people have been unhappy with our President for a number of years, but for a few, he's not the individual who supporters are going to point the finger at, for not signing on and neither will that be the case for Liddle.
If some had to 'protest' it would have been last year, but the uptake doesn't show a lot of damage done.

What happened, happened and our club is always open to in-fighting of one nature or another....even for all the talk of unity the past few years.
What a load of dribble that was. We are who we are and even the change of Presidency this year is unlikely to change that.

I think it’s a little late for you apply objectivity to your arguments regarding SOS; and, or our president for that matter. Perhaps you should just say you always disliked both.

I was about to respond by framing each of the arguments you raised, above, against arguments you’ve previously made. But then I realised it’s best to just admit I’ll likely never be satisfied with the Richmond bloke’s performance outside of membership sales; and, although I’d consider putting aside my obvious bias, by acceptIng the club keeping him on in a membership sales capacity, I‘d prefer it if he leaves.

 

[Ricky Mott]

Are you OK?

Take into account these facts -

1. We'd already surpassed our record membership numbers well before the start of the season and covid had an effect. Fact.
2. Liddle has only been at the club for two years and we've had record rates of increase...rates of increase. Look at the details and you'll find this fact.
3. Memberships don't jump normally exponentially on the back of winning wooden spoons....yet...

Let's use our growth rate of ~13% p.a. since Liddle joined and after 75K you get 85K. Presto....You have to look at facts, even if you don't want to.

Facts !! 75000 members please confirm. I think you need to look at the Facts!! 65000 members last time I looked. He’s on big money and producing an average result. He is the guru of membership and you are making excuses. I think even you could produce record membership with a successful team. Nothing special about our membership numbers. Lots of self promotion.

 

[Opine]

Are you OK?

Take into account these facts -

1. We'd already surpassed our record membership numbers well before the start of the season and covid had an effect. Fact.
2. Liddle has only been at the club for two years and we've had record rates of increase...rates of increase. Look at the details and you'll find this fact.
3. Memberships don't jump normally exponentially on the back of winning wooden spoons....yet...

Let's use our growth rate of ~13% p.a. since Liddle joined and after 75K you get 85K. Presto....You have to look at facts, even if you don't want to.

Oh please. H, I like you much better when you‘re honest. When you don’t try cloaking you’re obvious disdain with objectivity.

 

[Opine]

He‘s our CEO, and yet, a significant portion of the discussion in this thread has concerned LM and membership sales. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[Brackets]

Let’s not use COVID as an excuse. If we don’t make finals blame COVID. Every club is dealing with COVID and some breaking records significantly. 65000 members is nothing more than just mediocre. If he was everything you say he is he would be bucking the trend.
Our club should have at least 85000 members.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/scre...s-stunning-covid-membership-numbers-c-1223348

Five clubs have surpassed their memberships number from last year despite COVID-19 wreaking havoc on the AFL season.

The clubs currently down on numbers from last year include:

- Essendon (84,237 to 68,197)

- Fremantle (51,431 to 47,069)

- Geelong (65,063 to 59,011)

- GWS Giants (30,109 to 27,316)

- Hawthorn (81,211 to 70,675)

- Melbourne (52,421 to 39,774)

- North Melbourne (42,419 to 38,396)

- Port Adelaide (51,951 to 46,062)

- Richmond (103,358 to 98,614)

- Sydney (61,912 to 46,935)

- Western Bulldogs (44,373 to 38,401)

 

[HARKER]

I think it’s a little late for you apply objectivity to your arguments regarding SOS; and, or our president for that matter. Perhaps you should just say you always disliked both.

I was about to respond by framing each of the arguments you raised, above, against arguments you’ve previously made. But then I realised it’s best to just admit I’ll likely never be satisfied with the Richmond bloke’s performance outside of membership sales; and, although I’d consider putting aside my obvious bias, by acceptIng the club keeping him on in a membership sales capacity, I‘d prefer it if he leaves.

Which 'objectivity' exactly is that?

I said I didn't want SOS gone.
I said we handled his departure appallingly.
I said that a stronger club may have been able to reconcile the situation.

You can't conflate the issues surrounding SOS with membership numbers....I mean you can, but it's a little bit....wrong.

It seems to me that maybe you have the issue as you want Liddle gone, because somehow you don't like him.
Do you see yourself as being objective here

 

[Ricky Mott]

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/scre...s-stunning-covid-membership-numbers-c-1223348

Lots of 3 game membership and pet membership which the club never allowed before. I’m not overly impressed with our membership numbers. Remember we have the guru and we are at mid 60000.

 

[Bokan]

St Kilda CEO has also done an interview with cal Twomey now. Shame on him right?

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DangerousD]

I’m assuming you’ve been a CFC supporter for at least some period prior to his appointment: on that basis were you sold on the club’s messaging and direction regarding its rebuild?

I thought it was pretty clear, it had to happen, did we get it perfect, I don’t think so. Are you leading somewhere with this question, is it relevant to what’s being discussed?
The 66 game rebuild line, seems a bit silly now, lots of lines regarding that we are a club in a hurry though, a slow hurry obviously.

 

[DangerousD]

How many good additions have we missed out on though in prioritising the best quality on offer, only to fail and end up with the lowest quality left over as DFA etc.

In the wash up it was rather apparent how unlikely Papley was, and while it is commendable we got him to request us publicly, both are AA level for opposition while we continue to play Cuningham and Gibbons in the role.

Butler in isolation doesn't bother me. But we've wasted a lot of resources on failed attempts, and in turn the chance to add incremental improvement across the park that may have added up to that top quality and more.

Good points, I think you need to ask why we missed out and see if a pattern emerges. We seem to be missing out on players for a whole variety of reasons, my only concern with missing out on players early on was are we offering enough $$$$ and early on I think we could have pushed harder.

 

[DangerousD]

Lots of 3 game membership and pet membership which the club never allowed before. I’m not overly impressed with our membership numbers. Remember we have the guru and we are at mid 60000.

You link an article that states we are 1 of only 5 clubs to have an increase in memberships compared to 2019 despite COVID and you still complain? Did you miss the part that said we broke our all time membership record? We broke the record but it’s crap, we should have broken it by more, I sometimes wonder if you actually believe the stuff you post.

Mid 60,000? You mean 67,000 according the article, its a bloody good effort. Good in everyone involved.

 

[DangerousD]

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/scre...s-stunning-covid-membership-numbers-c-1223348

Yep we are horrible,

 

[Opine]

I thought it was pretty clear, it had to happen, did we get it perfect, I don’t think so. Are you leading somewhere with this question, is it relevant to what’s being discussed?
The 66 game rebuild line, seems a bit silly now, lots of lines regarding that we are a club in a hurry though, a slow hurry obviously.

Yeah, I’m trying to understand whether you’re generally happy with the structure of our list. We may get to other questions later; depending on how evasive you are in your responses

So, leaving aside usual qualifiers, are you happy with where our list is at now?

 

[DangerousD]

Yeah, I’m trying to understand whether you’re generally happy with the structure of our list. We may get to other questions later; depending on how evasive you are in your responses

So, leaving aside usual qualifiers, are you happy with where our list is at now?

Im very happy with the key position players on our list, Weitering, Cripps, Harry and Charlie make a fantastic spine, I’m hot and cold on Jones for the other, he played great yesterday but regularly costs goals. Apart from a few others I think our list is still very much in transition, we have definitely drafted a lot of midfielders, hopefully more come on than don’t, I think it’s clear we have a hole in the small forward and small defender department.

I still have concerns with a few of our players, the recruitment of and their output and the balance of our side (mostly too tall)

I did expect to be ahead Of where we are currently, that was provided on securing a big signing though, overall I’m happy with this season so far, but it could easily slip.

 

[Ricky Mott]

You link an article that states we are 1 of only 5 clubs to have an increase in memberships compared to 2019 despite COVID and you still complain? Did you miss the part that said we broke our all time membership record? We broke the record but it’s crap, we should have broken it by more, I sometimes wonder if you actually believe the stuff you post.

Mid 60,000? You mean 67,000 according the article, its a bloody good effort. Good in everyone involved.

The guru increases membership by 2000
Wow!!!

 

[DangerousD]

The guru increases membership by 2000
Wow!!!

Do you purposely underquote figures to help your argument? I hope others point out when I do it.

Yep a 2731 INCREASE in members during a world wide pandemic, whilst in the bottom third of the ladder is great.

We can have another look in a month or two, who knows the number might be even higher.

 

[HARKER]

The guru increases membership by 2000
Wow!!!

No. You are being very disingenuous to the discussion -

March 2 2019 - 53,136
March 2 2020 - 64,270

The difference = 11,134. Read that number out aloud and do yourself a service and try objectivity.
What do you see?...Or what don't you want to see? Either way the truth will come out...so what is it to be?

 

[Ricky Mott]

No. You are being very disingenuous to the discussion -

March 2 2019 - 53,136
March 2 2020 - 64,270

The difference = 11,134. Read that number out aloud and do yourself a service and try objectivity.
What do you see?...Or what don't you want to see? Either way the truth will come out...so what is it to be?

Your facts are wrong
65000 last year!!!
Please do some homework

 

[Ricky Mott]

No. You are being very disingenuous to the discussion -

March 2 2019 - 53,136
March 2 2020 - 64,270

The difference = 11,134. Read that number out aloud and do yourself a service and try objectivity.
What do you see?...Or what don't you want to see? Either way the truth will come out...so what is it to be?

We are up by 2000 members