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Cale Hooker

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If we offer him enough money, Essendon will let him walk. Essendon either take pick two as compo, trade with us for a pick outside the top ten and change or they risk losing him for nothing altogether if the trade doesn't get done.

I doubt Essendon players will exercise their rights to become delisted free agents unless they fail to get traded during trade period. Essendon however are more likely than not going to let players leave. A fresh start is what's needed even if means losing one or two guns. If a player doesn't want to be part of the club I very much doubt they will force them to stay or even make it hard for them.
 
Am I the only one who isn't that excited at the prospect of getting this guy? From what I've seen he is one of the better marks in the comp but his disposal is pretty suspect coming out of defence/kicking at goal (in the second half of last year). No disputing he's a good player but more concerned about the amount of salary cap it would take to get him to move over.
 
Docker82 said:
If we offer him enough money, Essendon will let him walk. Essendon either take pick two as compo, trade with us for a pick outside the top ten and change or they risk losing him for nothing altogether if the trade doesn't get done.

I doubt Essendon players will exercise their rights to become delisted free agents unless they fail to get traded during trade period. Essendon however are more likely than not going to let players leave. A fresh start is what's needed even if means losing one or two guns. If a player doesn't want to be part of the club I very much doubt they will force them to stay or even make it hard for them.
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Essendon wont get any compo if he came to us. He would be considered a delisted free agent according to AFL Players Association.
 

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yoong said:
Yes, but it's a little more complicated than that.
He'll need to nominate for PSD, and risk any team with a higher pick than us picking him up (I assumed there is a good chance if it comes to that).
So, the safer way is to work a trade with Essendon directly, especially if we end up top 4.
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No they are delisted free agents not delisted players, so are effectively unrestricted free agents. They can sign a contract with any club they want during the next trade period. Essendon would likely get compensation picks for him though - in fact the compensation picks may be more attractive to them than what they could get via trade.
 
wayToGo_ said:
No they are delisted free agents not delisted players, so are effectively unrestricted free agents. They can sign a contract with any club they want during the next trade period. Essendon would likely get compensation picks for him though - in fact the compensation picks may be more attractive to them than what they could get via trade.
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If they are unrestricted free agents there is zero compensation.
 
sherrif said:
If they are unrestricted free agents there is zero compensation.
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I thought compensation is based on their TPP worth? And restricted vs unrestricted is based on how many years served? So you still get compensation even if they are unrestricted if they are some of your top paid players? I'm not really sure TBH though as the formula the AFL uses for free agency doesn't seem to be public knowledge.
 
There is a stipulation in their contracts that allows the Essendon players to become unrestricted free agents if duty of care is breached. They (Essendon) don't receive anything in compensation.
 
sherrif said:
There is a stipulation in their contracts that allows the Essendon players to become unrestricted free agents if duty of care is breached. They (Essendon) don't receive anything in compensation.
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This is how I understand it too, but the AFL is likely to change the rules if they think that Essendon may lose too many players without compensation.

When would the players have to declare that they want to leave? Because my understanding is that if they leave the Essendonfc, they would not have anywhere to train in the three months before the suspension is up. But if they stay, or don't declare that duty of care has been breached, they would still be able to train at Essendon in the three months before the end of the suspension.
So my guess is that unless the players decide they really hate Essendon, they will go back there and the only ones who leave will be those who are out of contract anyway. Then Essendon will be allowed to recover and be compensated for lost players, which is what the AFL want to happen.

I'm still not sure if I want Hooker or any of the Essendon players. It's all well and good that they stuck together, but there must come a point when people need to own up for their mistakes. The players are not innocents in this saga.
 
At this stage he is a restricted free agent. He may possibly choose to become a delisted free agent in the future, but the state of affairs at the moment is that he is a restricted free agent coming out of contract. I think if he accepts a contract from us as a RFA, Essendon will choose not to match it because if he doesn't want to be there, he can just choose to delist himself and become a DFA. Essendon will also get some pretty nice compo for him if they finish last and he leaves as an RFA. Either way, there is a very real possibility that if he does not re-sign with Essendon, we can get him at no cost to us other than a dent in the salary cap.
 
groggm said:
Am I the only one who isn't that excited at the prospect of getting this guy? From what I've seen he is one of the better marks in the comp but his disposal is pretty suspect coming out of defence/kicking at goal (in the second half of last year). No disputing he's a good player but more concerned about the amount of salary cap it would take to get him to move over.
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Yes
 

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Nickos66 said:
If nothing else - this thread has shown that most people don't understand the concept of how delisted free agency works.
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Wrong. Most people expect the AFL to come up with some bs that makes these Essendon players not delisted free agents. Not to mention it hasn't actually come from an official AFL source that these players are eligible.

To add to that not a single one of the banned players has made noices about leaving and/or further legal proceedings bar one or two guys that are no longer there. Those still at Essendon actually seem like whilst they are disappointed in the club, they still want to stay. They don't automatically become delisted free agents, they have to choose to.
 
I can't see Hooker exercising his right to be a DFA considering he is already an RFA. It would just be a petty way of ensuring Essendon don't get compo, and players rarely, if ever, burn bridges like that out of pure spite when they're leaving a club, even if they hated their old club or club administration.

The only way I can see Hooker choosing to become a DFA is if Essendon match our offer for him as an RFA.
 
Eski3 said:
I can't see Hooker exercising his right to be a DFA considering he is already an RFA. It would just be a petty way of ensuring Essendon don't get compo, and players rarely, if ever, burn bridges like that out of pure spite when they're leaving a club, even if they hated their old club or club administration.

The only way I can see Hooker choosing to become a DFA is if Essendon match our offer for him as an RFA.
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Josh Carr did it to the Dockers and left us with nothing. I think he was a vice-captain of ours when he did go back to Port so why not do the same in in Hooker's case and have him take up the option of unrestricted fee agent status. Players would be angry and seeking to blame others so they wouldn't be worrying about Essendon. Essendon didn't worry about the players when they were treated as pincushions and were stuck with any number (un-documented) of needles. Can they get back to their 2015 form and will Essendon have given them adequate compensation for loss of playing fees and endorsements etc.these are the doubts that can fire up players to be in a position to want to leave as unrestricted free agents.
 
DannyTheDoorman said:
Josh Carr did it to the Dockers and left us with nothing. I think he was a vice-captain of ours when he did go back to Port so why not do the same in in Hooker's case and have him take up the option of unrestricted fee agent status. Players would be angry and seeking to blame others so they wouldn't be worrying about Essendon. Essendon didn't worry about the players when they were treated as pincushions and were stuck with any number (un-documented) of needles. Can they get back to their 2015 form and will Essendon have given them adequate compensation for loss of playing fees and endorsements etc.these are the doubts that can fire up players to be in a position to want to leave as unrestricted free agents.
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This is a very different set of circumstances. Carr asked to be traded to Port Adelaide and they didn't offer us anything and basically wanted him for free. Didn't make much of a difference when his contract expired and he went through the PSD. Hooker would cost a top 10 pick, a pick we won't have, if he was available. Thing is he will get to us for nothing, whilst Essendon get a top 4-5 pick. If Essendon be difficult he may exercise his right but it's not in their best interest to risk losing him for nothing.
 
Docker82 said:
This is a very different set of circumstances. Carr asked to be traded to Port Adelaide and they didn't offer us anything and basically wanted him for free. Didn't make much of a difference when his contract expired and he went through the PSD. Hooker would cost a top 10 pick, a pick we won't have, if he was available. Thing is he will get to us for nothing, whilst Essendon get a top 4-5 pick. If Essendon be difficult he may exercise his right but it's not in their best interest to risk losing him for nothing.
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An interesting point guys. Initially, I also thought that the two were very different, and in many respects they are as far as the circumstances are concerned. However, Josh Carr was 29 and wanted to go 'home' when he went back to Port; Cale Hooker will turn 29 in 2017 and is from WA. No point giving up anything for a 29 yr old with a year out of footy. Would rather just get all my eggs in the Jesse Hogan basket and develop Pearce/Collins/Smith.
 

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WilloTree said:
An interesting point guys. Initially, I also thought that the two were very different, and in many respects they are as far as the circumstances are concerned. However, Josh Carr was 29 and wanted to go 'home' when he went back to Port; Cale Hooker will turn 29 in 2017 and is from WA. No point giving up anything for a 29 yr old with a year out of footy. Would rather just get all my eggs in the Jesse Hogan basket and develop Pearce/Collins/Smith.
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He's a free agent. We won't give up anything. Essendon would be dumb to force a trade. Pick 2 vs pick 11-20. Hmmmm... Tough. Only reason Adelaide matched Geelong last year was because they got a better pick out of doing so plus got a player as well. Essendon know that if don't match they either get an inferior deal or they lose him for absolutely nothing.

As for Hogan. I wouldn't throw all our eggs in one basket, in fact IMO it's extremely unlikely he'll ever play for our footy club.
 
Nickos66 said:
If nothing else - this thread has shown that most people don't understand the concept of how delisted free agency works.
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Very true. It's clear as mud though when you read this: http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/free-agency

Read it three times and still no wiser in regards to Essendon's mess. It doesn't even mention "delisted free agents". Anyway, doubt anybody will declare they are leaving until far closer to the end of their ban.
 
Docker82 said:
He's a free agent. We won't give up anything. Essendon would be dumb to force a trade. Pick 2 vs pick 11-20. Hmmmm... Tough. Only reason Adelaide matched Geelong last year was because they got a better pick out of doing so plus got a player as well. Essendon know that if don't match they either get an inferior deal or they lose him for absolutely nothing.

As for Hogan. I wouldn't throw all our eggs in one basket, in fact IMO it's extremely unlikely he'll ever play for our footy club.
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McCarthy, though. That guy's singing this song about the FFC:
 
wayToGo_ said:
Very true. It's clear as mud though when you read this: http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/free-agency

Read it three times and still no wiser in regards to Essendon's mess. It doesn't even mention "delisted free agents". Anyway, doubt anybody will declare they are leaving until far closer to the end of their ban.
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I'm taking it as a given that the rules will change when their ban is lifted. Can't imagine Essendon being given 12 comp picks if all of them decide to go.
 
yoong said:
I'm taking it as a given that the rules will change when their ban is lifted. Can't imagine Essendon being given 12 comp picks if all of them decide to go.
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Or likewise given no compensation picks at all if they all go. Only thing I am sure about is that it's a massive mess.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Or likewise given no compensation picks at all if they all go. Only thing I am sure about is that it's a massive mess.
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It'd almost be like setting up Gold Coast/GWS again except with far less talent and a fan base. It'd just be so so strange.

I think even if the players are delisted free agents, Essendon will receive compo, despite the rules saying they shouldn't. I think one or two may leave, another one or two may retire and Pears will probably be delisted but hopefully it's no more than that. I know the club stuffed up but there's only so much they deserve. It's one of two options other than just them not being free agents which would be near on impossible to get past the AFLPA. The decision made will be about minimising damage to all parties. (ie. Allowing players to move freely but not destroying Essendon for the next 10 years by doing so)
 

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