Call for inquiry on baby bonus abortion loophole

[DeanoT]

Just one more reason to get rid of this insidious policy

A LEGAL loophole means that up to 90 South Australian women who had late-term abortions in 2008 were eligible for the baby bonus.

The statistics have sparked new calls for an investigation into who can claim the $5000 payment.

In 2008, SA Senator Cory Bernardi revealed that women who had an abortion after 20 weeks gestation were still eligible for the payment because it was not distinguished from a stillbirth. He said he was not convinced the loophole had since been closed.

Women who have stillborn children can receive the bonus on compassionate grounds.

According to the Parliamentary Library, the definition of a stillborn child in the Family Assistance Act is one who weighs at least 400g at delivery or whose period of gestation was at least 20 weeks; who has not breathed since delivery; and whose heart has not beaten since delivery.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cal...bortion-loophole/story-e6frfkvr-1225854887365

 

[kimp]

Just one more reason to get rid of this insidious policy



http://www.news.com.au/national/cal...bortion-loophole/story-e6frfkvr-1225854887365

Can't believe this is even being investigated. They have shown that all those late term abortions were for medical reasons. if you haven't been through it you have no idea what is involved. This is petty politics and extremely disgusting, the lowest of the low.

If you odn't like the policy go after the policy. Do not go after parents who have been through hell.

 

[Dry Rot]

Can't believe this is even being investigated. They have shown that all those late term abortions were for medical reasons. if you haven't been through it you have no idea what is involved. This is petty politics and extremely disgusting, the lowest of the low.

If you odn't like the policy go after the policy. Do not go after parents who have been through hell.

You're surely not supporting the payment in these circumstances?

 

[kimp]

You're surely not supporting the payment in these circumstances?

Stillborn babies have to have a funeral. The money gets used for that. Parents who are forced into late term abortions go through similar trauma to those who experience stillborn births.

Once again if you have no experience in this area keep well out of it. Politics does not belong here.

 

[Dry Rot]

Stillborn babies have to have a funeral. The money gets used for that. Parents who are forced into late term abortions go through similar trauma to those who experience stillborn births.

Once again if you have no experience in this area keep well out of it. Politics does not belong here.

What was the policy about? Encouraging population growth.

So...

Produce a live baby, get bonus.

Produce a dead foetus in a bucket, no bonus. Simple.

Yes, it's sad, yes it's bad s**t. But so is a whole lot of other bad stuff that happens to folk that doesn't generate a govt bonus/ex gratia payment. eg truck driving breadwinner dies in road smash. No govt sad bonus. Or the premature death of a kid which I've seen, which is a lot sadder when you've seen her grow up a bit.

 

[Dry Rot]

Politics does not belong here.

When it's spending taxpayers money it certainly does.

 

[kimp]

I started to reply but thought I'd leave you comments to stand for themselves. It's always so easy for people to talk about policy and try to separate them from real life.

I had a stillborn child. I've lived it. To write what you have you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

eta The money was to assist parents. Not every pregnancy is a 'success' so if you're going to provide funding you have to be prepared to provide for all 'outcomes'. The ignorance about pregnancy and childbirth is astonishing in the general population. Your comments just confirm that.

 

[Dry Rot]

I started to reply but thought I'd leave you comments to stand for themselves. It's always so easy for people to talk about policy and try to separate them from real life.

I had a stillborn child. I've lived it. To write what you have you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm sorry to hear that, but clearly you are unable to argue the issue.

Why should this get paid but the not the mother of the ten year old girl who died of an asthma attack? Or the breadwinner truck driver?

 

[kimp]

I'm sorry to hear that, but clearly you are unable to argue the issue.

Why should this get paid but the not the mother of the ten year old girl who died of an asthma attack? Or the breadwinner truck driver?

You're not sorry and I certainly don't need your pity. Read my eta above it will explain the very clear difference. A baby is considered 'born' as defined by the government. The baby bonus to provided for all babies.

Given that I actually have clear experience in this issue while you clearly do not I fail to see why I cannot argue the issue whereas some one as ignorant as you think you can.

eta And just to be clear I am not a supporter of the baby bonus.

 

[Dry Rot]

You're not sorry and I certainly don't need your pity. Read my eta above it will explain the very clear difference. A baby is considered 'born' as defined by the government. The baby bonus to provided for all babies.

Given that I actually have clear experience in this issue while you clearly do not I fail to see why I cannot argue the issue whereas some one as ignorant as you think you can.

eta And just to be clear I am not a supporter of the baby bonus.

You're not getting this. The objective of the policy was to increase our population by way of an incentive payment upon birth. However tragic, stillborns don't increase our population.

And we'd have no posts here if we all needed first hand experience of whatever we wanted to discuss eg I haven't fought in Iraq either.

 

[Clay Davis]

Somebody please think of the (dead) children.

 

[kimp]

You're not getting this. The objective of the policy was to increase our population by way of an incentive payment upon birth. However tragic, stillborns don't increase our population.

And we'd have no posts here if we all needed first hand experience of whatever we wanted to discuss eg I haven't fought in Iraq either.

No you don't get it. Stillborns are an outcome of birth. Just becuse you get pregnant doens't mean that you're going to get a healthy baby out of it. If the purpose of the policy is to increase the population be increasing the number of pregnancies (which i assume you realise is necessary) then you pay for all the outcomes. Even before the policy came in the government had a legal definition for a 'birth' which requires a funeral etc. My argument is that the payment has been defined as being eligible for parents who have a 'birth' therefore all 'births' should be eligible.



Also I'm not saying you need first hand experience however it's best not to be ignorant on the subject either. It was also you who claimed that I was unable to argue.

I'd also say that your claim that somehow the age of the child makes a death more or less traumatic is one of the most offensive things I've seen written on this site. I hope your ignorance continues in your life.

 

[Luvs2Slash]

You're not getting this. The objective of the policy was to increase our population by way of an incentive payment upon birth. However tragic, stillborns don't increase our population.

And we'd have no posts here if we all needed first hand experience of whatever we wanted to discuss eg I haven't fought in Iraq either.

It doesn't matter what the bonus is intended for. If a baby turns into a dole bludger, the govt can't say "Well, we had intended you to raise this kid into an upstanding tax paying citizen, but he's not so we'll be taking that baby bonus money back k thx". What if the kid dies a day later? "Sorry, your kid didn't live long enough to serve our purposes, give the money back"

If you're going to have a baby bonus policy the kid dying is the risk you take. Everyone who pops one out, dead or alive is entitled to it.

 

[Belnakor]

The bonus is to change people's decision making process, and think getting pregnant is a good idea, so surely the bonus needs to goto people who want to have kids.

 

[P.A.F.C]

Yep, it's an incentive to get pregnant. Honestly don't see the issue.

 

[fairdinkum]

Good grief, DR.

Where would you draw the line? If parents of still-births shouldn't get the payment, how about parents of newborns who die within, say, 24 hours of birth? After all, the payments weren't ostensibly designed to increase the number of dead babies in our cemetaries, so why should those parents get the payments?

They 'failed' too, right?

 

[Dry Rot]

Good grief, DR.

Where would you draw the line? If parents of still-births shouldn't get the payment, how about parents of newborns who die within, say, 24 hours of birth? After all, the payments weren't ostensibly designed to increase the number of dead babies in our cemetaries, so why should those parents get the payments?

They 'failed' too, right?

Agreed. Maybe we need some sort of one year rule.

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Terrible policy in the first place, should be thrown scrapped.

 

[Cynic]

Stupid policy single handedly boganising Australia.

 

[Suspense]

Saw a bit of Q & A (hilariously bad show) last night. A lot of hand-wringing, from both the politicians and "concerned citizens" alike, about estimated population levels in the future. Usual suspects were all made to blame [immagints etc.], but no mention of the hilariously bad baby bonus policy which aims to encourage even higher population levels.

Too funny...

 

[evo]

Taxing people to pay other people to have more babies so said babies will in turn one day pay tax.

The genius of big government.

 

[1jasonoz]

Taxing people to pay other people to have more babies so said babies will in turn one day pay tax.

The genius of big government.

Thats what occurs when you have people who are against means testing of family welfare payments-big government, increased number of Public Servants, increased taxes to pay for this non-means tested welfare, churn as the government less the 20-30% PS handling fees hands money back to taxpayers.

 

[fairdinkum]

Saw a bit of Q & A (hilariously bad show) last night.

One of the better posters on BF but christ you have gotten rather full of yourself lately.

Attacking Dawkins and the ABC. How progressive.

 

[BarneyBent]

Saw a bit of Q & A (hilariously bad show) last night. A lot of hand-wringing, from both the politicians and "concerned citizens" alike, about estimated population levels in the future. Usual suspects were all made to blame [immagints etc.], but no mention of the hilariously bad baby bonus policy which aims to encourage even higher population levels.

Too funny...

What's bad about Q&A? I love seeing w***ers making fools of themselves in their 15 minutes of fame. It's a great way of seeing some of the more extreme views of the public (on both sides) contrasted with the almost ludicrously non-committal Australian politicians (on both sides). And don't think the producers wouldn't realise that. It's all by design. Hilariously cynical viewing for those that see it that way.

In any case, I'd prefer the baby bonus be scrapped. I have absolutely no idea why we're encouraging childbirth and discouraging immigration. It should be the other way around. Actually, that's not true, I do understand why, encouraging childbirth and discouraging immigration is easier to sell to the public.

 

[Suspense]

One of the better posters on BF but christ you have gotten rather full of yourself lately.

Attacking Dawkins and the ABC. How progressive.

thinking that dawkins' philosophy overgeneralizes and misunderstands religion and believing q & a to be a partisan wankfest full of "intellectual" busybodies is being "full of yourself" now? gee, I'll be careful not to express any opinions whatsoever in the future.

i hope i don't drop out of the top posters because of this!!!!!!
i've worked so ****ing hard for this.

What's bad about Q&A? I love seeing w***ers making fools of themselves in their 15 minutes of fame. It's a great way of seeing some of the more extreme views of the public (on both sides) contrasted with the almost ludicrously non-committal Australian politicians (on both sides). And don't think the producers wouldn't realise that. It's all by design. Hilariously cynical viewing for those that see it that way.

it's hilariously bad in the same sense that JOFFA: THE MOVIE will be hilariously bad.