Player Watch Callum Brown

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The problem is people are stuck in the 80s/90s nostalgia to see Abletts greatness. If being the record holder in all of the games greatest individual awards isn't an indicator to his greatness then nothing will change the mind of people who grew up with football in another era.
If people are stuck in the 80s/90s nostalgia then in theory one can be stuck in present day individual awards / preset day hype that everything must be better today.

That said, to suggest Gary senior and his record is nostalgia, I’m sorry it is far more than nostalgia. Senior dominated with such a dynamic that few have ever possessed. His freakish acts, GAJ just has never ever done.

Not one person is saying GAJ isn’t a gun, elite, a great player but there is a counter argument that there are better players.

I respect your opinion.
 

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jackcass

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The problem is people are stuck in the 80s/90s nostalgia to see Abletts greatness. If being the record holder in all of the games greatest individual awards isn't an indicator to his greatness then nothing will change the mind of people who grew up with football in another era.
Flip side is that people don't rate what they didn't see or appreciate that it has little to do with nostalgia. GAJ has no doubt had a great career but I don't rate much of the quantum of his possession because of his predilection for give and go doubling up and his general lack of impact. Don't even think he's as good as Judd, Voss, Buckley or several other midfielder types of more recent times, or as good as players like Josh Kelly or Tom Mitchell will become. And that's without looking outside the midfielders. But we're all entitled to our views.
 

sr36

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The problem is people are stuck in the 80s/90s nostalgia to see Abletts greatness. If being the record holder in all of the games greatest individual awards isn't an indicator to his greatness then nothing will change the mind of people who grew up with football in another era.
Forwards by their very nature aren't as consistent as midfielders, aren't as involved in as many contests and thus don't win as many awards.

If Dusty Martin was as good a forward as Ablett Senior was, his "GOAT Season" wouldn't have had him playing 50/50 mid and forward. He would have been a full time forward and not won the Brownlow. Same goes with Ablett Jnrs awards.
 

Kappa

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Flip side is that people don't rate what they didn't see or appreciate that it has little to do with nostalgia. GAJ has no doubt had a great career but I don't rate much of the quantum of his possession because of his predilection for give and go doubling up and his general lack of impact. Don't even think he's as good as Judd, Voss, Buckley or several other midfielder types of more recent times, or as good as players like Josh Kelly or Tom Mitchell will become. And that's without looking outside the midfielders. But we're all entitled to our views.
With all due respect, if you don't think Jnr has impact with his possessions then you CLEARLY do not watch much of him. Yes, in some of his 45 possession games he got a few cheap 1-2s, so? Everyone who gets super high possessions has to get some cheap ones. Even if you don't have him as the best player of all time (and a lot of people do) then you simply must put him in the top 5.

Also, it does have a lot to do with nostalgia, nostalgia is an incredibly powerful force and you see it in many topics. Everyone thinks the Football they grew up with was the best and the most skillful, it's too hard to people to accept that their era wasn't as great as they think and that things improve over time (they do)
 

sr36

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With all due respect, if you don't think Jnr has impact with his possessions then you CLEARLY do not watch much of him. Yes, in some of his 45 possession games he got a few cheap 1-2s, so? Everyone who gets super high possessions has to get some cheap ones. Even if you don't have him as the best player of all time (and a lot of people do) then you simply must put him in the top 5.

Also, it does have a lot to do with nostalgia, nostalgia is an incredibly powerful force and you see it in many topics. Everyone thinks the Football they grew up with was the best and the most skillful, it's too hard to people to accept that their era wasn't as great as they think and that things improve over time (they do)
Junior is an all time great, anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

Senior when on song had a bigger influence, simply turning games on their ear in a way I've never seen since.

Junior has been infinitely more consistent, but has played most of his footy in a position that helps with consistency. This consistency has helped him be more decorated with awards.

Ultimately, when comparing the two, it's a matter of whether you value consistency over heights scaled.

FWIW, I think they both belong in any discussion of all time greats.
 

jackcass

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With all due respect, if you don't think Jnr has impact with his possessions then you CLEARLY do not watch much of him.
God I love that.... With all due respect and then you tell me that I clearly don't watch enough footy or by extension that I haven't a clue...
Even if you don't have him as the best player of all time (and a lot of people do)
Well you and 1 other poster here apparently.
then you simply must put him in the top 5.
Well clearly not.
Also, it does have a lot to do with nostalgia, nostalgia is an incredibly powerful force and you see it in many topics. Everyone thinks the Football they grew up with was the best and the most skillful, it's too hard to people to accept that their era wasn't as great as they think and that things improve over time (they do)
With all due respect, it has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia but happy for you to believe that purely because you haven't seen these players live.
 

Kappa

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God I love that.... With all due respect and then you tell me that I clearly don't watch enough footy or by extension that I haven't a clue...


Well you and 1 other poster here apparently.


Well clearly not.


With all due respect, it has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia but happy for you to believe that purely because you haven't seen these players live.

If you don't rate Ablett Jnr as an all time great then YES, you are clueless. Lots of people have Jnr as the GOAT, even a simple google search will show you how wrong you are.

"nothing" to do with nostalgia... literally nothing? Rating VFL players from the 80s over the elite skillful athletes of 2019 has NOTHING with do with nostalgia? are you... certain of that...?
 

Jen2310

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Had a chat with Callum at yesterday's VFL game. He was with Tyler, whom I got mixed up from behind until Callum turned around. Nice boy. Talked about the game for a bit. Congradulated him on his performance and talked about the terrible first half. Probably talked about 5 mins and then he went back and sat with his brother to watch the game.
 

jackcass

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If you don't rate Ablett Jnr as an all time great then YES, you are clueless. Lots of people have Jnr as the GOAT, even a simple google search will show you how wrong you are.

"nothing" to do with nostalgia... literally nothing? Rating VFL players from the 80s over the elite skillful athletes of 2019 has NOTHING with do with nostalgia? are you... certain of that...?
Where have I said he hasn't had a great career. Get over yourself, certainly won't accept some internet keyboard warrior telling me I'm wrong just because I hold a different opinion. There may well be a few who rate GAJ as the GOAT but I'm more than happy with my view that he's not even the best midfielder. Happy for you to maintain any delusions you like on both GAJ and nostalgia.
 
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sr36

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"nothing" to do with nostalgia... literally nothing? Rating VFL players from the 80s over the elite skillful athletes of 2019 has NOTHING with do with nostalgia? are you... certain of that...?
Whilst there may be a fair bit of truth in that argument if you're just comparing the individuals out of their context, these discussions are about how dominant you were in your era.

If you put a current day test batsman into Bradman's era, had them face the same bowlers with the same standard of fielding, and the same level of benefit of the doubt that was given to batsmen, I suspect a heap of them would average as much as Bradman did, but no-one in their right mind is going to compare Shaun Marsh to Bradman.

Ablett Junior can make a claim to being as dominant in his era as his dad was or Matthews, maybe even Coleman. But to claim that he's greater simply because you have to be a much better athlete with more skills in the modern era than in earlier eras, makes a comparison between Shaun Marsh and Bradman justified, when clearly it isn't justified.
 

JB1975

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I reckon Callum is going fabulously, but not sure he deserves to be in a 'greatest of all time' discussion...

To the mods, would a separate thread work for this? I think the GOAT discussion (and associated thoughts about how we rank past and present players etc.) is interesting, and it seems to pop up from time to time, so maybe we could have a dedicated place for it. Maybe something with a title such as, 'The Greatest: Comparing Past and Present Champions'.

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Maggie5

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I reckon Callum is going fabulously, but not sure he deserves to be in a 'greatest of all time' discussion...

To the mods, would a separate thread work for this? I think the GOAT discussion (and associated thoughts about how we rank past and present players etc.) is interesting, and it seems to pop up from time to time, so maybe we could have a dedicated place for it. Maybe something with a title such as, 'The Greatest: Comparing Past and Present Champions'.

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Def. not in the greatest of all time category, I certainly don't see him in that. Reserved for players like Bucks and maybe Pendlebury but for their time.

Not sure it is possible to compare players in different eras.
 

Kappa

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Had a chat with Callum at yesterday's VFL game. He was with Tyler, whom I got mixed up from behind until Callum turned around. Nice boy. Talked about the game for a bit. Congradulated him on his performance and talked about the terrible first half. Probably talked about 5 mins and then he went back and sat with his brother to watch the game.
Whats the size difference between the two now?
 

Jen2310

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Whats the size difference between the two now?
Height wise? Tyler is still a bit taller, which should have given me the idea on who was who. lol But didn't think too much of it at the time.
 

sr36

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I reckon Callum is going fabulously, but not sure he deserves to be in a 'greatest of all time' discussion...
Def. not in the greatest of all time category, I certainly don't see him in that. Reserved for players like Bucks and maybe Pendlebury but for their time.
I've always suspected you two lacked imagination. He doesn't deserve to be in the discussion on form to date or on likely future form, but if you imagine him developing the capacity to spontaneously levitate, why couldn't he become the best ever?
 

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If you put a current day test batsman into Bradman's era, had them face the same bowlers with the same standard of fielding, and the same level of benefit of the doubt that was given to batsmen, I suspect a heap of them would average as much as Bradman did, but no-one in their right mind is going to compare Shaun Marsh to Bradman.


At best Shaun Marsh might bump his average up a bit but no:way he gets close to 100 as an average even though f he returned to that era as he is now. That canyon between Bradman and the rest was between the ears, and Bradman being on a different plane talent wise.

But I take your point.
 

Maggie5

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I've always suspected you two lacked imagination. He doesn't deserve to be in the discussion on form to date or on likely future form, but if you imagine him developing the capacity to spontaneously levitate, why couldn't he become the best ever?
Imagination I have, a seer I am not.;)

On a serious note, I am not sure that I see him amongst the best.

For example, Pendlebury you could see early on he had something special, Buckley for different reasons - application, prepartion, single mindness.

Much too early for young Brown and still not sure he will be. But happy to be proved wrong.
 

sr36

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Imagination I have, a seer I am not.;)

On a serious note, I am not sure that I see him amongst the best.

For example, Pendlebury you could see early on he had something special, Buckley for different reasons - application, prepartion, single mindness.

Much too early for young Brown and still not sure he will be. But happy to be proved wrong.
Yeah. The Pendlebury and Buckley bars are almost certainly way too high for Callum. But I do think his bar is higher than what many have it at, becasue most of us incorrectly pegged him as being a bit vanilla and didn't realise he had the dash that he does have.
 

Maggie5

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Yeah. The Pendlebury and Buckley bars are almost certainly way too high for Callum. But I do think his bar is higher than what many have it at, becasue most of us incorrectly pegged him as being a bit vanilla and didn't realise he had the dash that he does have.
I like Brown and have always been a fan and advocate to keep playing him. Why are you picking on me?:'(
 

sr36

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Yep. Shaun Marsh was an intentionally stupid stretch, but I have little doubt about Ricky Ponting, Steve Waugh,Steve Smith etc getting the type of numbers that The Don did. But there's no way we will ever find out and there is no way they should be favourably compared to Bradman.
 

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Brown had another goo game without being outstanding.
Kicked one of those clutch goals he going to be famous for.

Building very nicely.
 

sr36

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I like Brown and have always been a fan and advocate to keep playing him. Why are you picking on me?:'(
I wasn't trying to pick on you. I just like him too and want him to be a part of any GOAT discussion.
 

JB1975

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I've always suspected you two lacked imagination. He doesn't deserve to be in the discussion on form to date or on likely future form, but if you imagine him developing the capacity to spontaneously levitate, why couldn't he become the best ever?
I gave up footy before under 16s. I was a plucky midfielder with a handy knack of finding the ball, but my disposal tended towards the unpredictable. I never won a B&F in my 8 years of junior football, and yet I still imagine that if I'd only applied myself to the game and stuck with it for a few more years, I would have cracked the AFL.

Sav, I have an imagination that would rival Tolkien.
 

Gaben

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Brown had another goo game without being outstanding.
Kicked one of those clutch goals he going to be famous for.

Building very nicely.
Features in the coaches votes for the round which is a good effort.

Funny though, we've somehow ended up with 31 votes allocated in our game instead of the typical 30 :think:
 
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