Player Watch Callum Brown

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sr36

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I gave up footy before under 16s. I was a plucky midfielder with a handy knack of finding the ball, but my disposal tended towards the unpredictable. I never won a B&F in my 8 years of junior football, and yet I still imagine that if I'd only applied myself to the game and stuck with it for a few more years, I would have cracked the AFL.

Sav, I have an imagination that would rival Tolkien.
That's what I'm talking - can only imagine the impact of trying harder. Imagine what you could have achieved with X-Men type powers.

That's what Callum needs to belong in this part of the discussion about him.
 
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If you don't rate Ablett Jnr as an all time great then YES, you are clueless. Lots of people have Jnr as the GOAT, even a simple google search will show you how wrong you are.

"nothing" to do with nostalgia... literally nothing? Rating VFL players from the 80s over the elite skillful athletes of 2019 has NOTHING with do with nostalgia? are you... certain of that...?
Been resisting this, but... the older posters that you're so certain are wrong about GAJ have had the benefit of seeing several generations of footballers, and are thus in the position of comparing them from personal observation. You apparently haven't, and thus can't. So your cast-iron assertions on the inferiority of players you haven't seen and the eras they played in come across as arrogant and uninformed. You could acquire some humility and it might even assist your judgement.
For what it's worth (probably not much) here is a small sample list of players I would think were either 'certainly' or 'probably' better than GAJ -- no reflection on him as a very, very good footballer... just that I think these were better in their own eras and social settings:
Not in any particular order... Bunton, Skilton, Barassi, Coleman, Hudson, Thompson, Daicos, Whitten, Stewart, Baldock, GA Senior, Hart, Matthews, Buckley, Rose, Farmer, Jesaulenko. I'll stop at this point, but I reckon a panel of experienced and knowledgeable footy watchers would come up with quite a few more.
 
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Completely different, the "AFL" was an amtuerish suburban competition in the 80s.
The only distinction between "professional" and "amateur" is $$$, not athletic ability.

It may surprise you that a lot of athletes that compete at a higher level than todays AFL footballers take pride in their amateur status.
 

Horaceg

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Been resisting this, but... the older posters that you're so certain are wrong about GAJ have had the benefit of seeing several generations of footballers, and are thus in the position of comparing them from personal observation. You apparently haven't, and thus can't. So your cast-iron assertions on the inferiority of players you haven't seen and the eras they played in come across as arrogant and uninformed. You could acquire some humility and it might even assist your judgement.
For what it's worth (probably not much) here is a small sample list of players I would think were either 'certainly' or 'probably' better than GAJ -- no reflection on him as a very, very good footballer... just that I think these were better in their own eras and social settings:
Not in any particular order... Bunton, Skilton, Barassi, Coleman, Hudson, Thompson, Daicos, Whitten, Stewart, Baldock, GA Senior, Hart, Matthews, Buckley, Rose, Farmer, Jesaulenko. I'll stop at this point, but I reckon a panel of experienced and knowledgeable footy watchers would come up with quite a few more.
Warrick Capper, just ask him
 

Kappa

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The only distinction between "professional" and "amateur" is $$$, not athletic ability.

It may surprise you that a lot of athletes that compete at a higher level than todays AFL footballers take pride in their amateur status.
So.. you don't think athletes in 2019 are better than amateur athletes from the 80s who had smokes at half time and didn't do recovery or even train that much?
 

Kappa

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Been resisting this, but... the older posters that you're so certain are wrong about GAJ have had the benefit of seeing several generations of footballers, and are thus in the position of comparing them from personal observation. You apparently haven't, and thus can't. So your cast-iron assertions on the inferiority of players you haven't seen and the eras they played in come across as arrogant and uninformed. You could acquire some humility and it might even assist your judgement.
For what it's worth (probably not much) here is a small sample list of players I would think were either 'certainly' or 'probably' better than GAJ -- no reflection on him as a very, very good footballer... just that I think these were better in their own eras and social settings:
Not in any particular order... Bunton, Skilton, Barassi, Coleman, Hudson, Thompson, Daicos, Whitten, Stewart, Baldock, GA Senior, Hart, Matthews, Buckley, Rose, Farmer, Jesaulenko. I'll stop at this point, but I reckon a panel of experienced and knowledgeable footy watchers would come up with quite a few more.
Too bad I have logic and common sense on my side, the best players get better over time as training improves, player pool gets bigger, players improved athletically and their opponents get better.

Let me ask you this, who was a better sprint, the best sprinter from the 70s or the best sprinter from now? And why do you think that is?

"Yea well... okay... Footballers now are SIGNIFICANTLY better athletes but... Football is about more than just being an athlete!"

True, however being a better athlete is a massive advantage, you put any team from 2019 against the best team from the 80s and it would be a humiliation. Strength, speed, agility, skills... it's no contest.

So if the question is, "who are the best players relative to their eras", then yes you have a point and those names you mentioned may be the one. However when the question is, who is the BEST player of all time, there's no "yea but IF this player had today's training..." because they didn't. Players are getting better every year, the standard goes up. If you're looking for the best of all time you simply must look at recent players first and foremost.

You also must do some research on nostalgia and how much it corrupts peoples opinion's, it is incredibly persuasive and very common.

I'm not trying to say past players weren't champions, merely that today's players have gotten better, and deserve better recognition... That is not a controversial statement.
 
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So.. you don't think athletes in 2019 are better than amateur athletes from the 80s who had smokes at half time and didn't do recovery or even train that much?
Oh, well, gee... you've got me there.
Firstly, your characterisation of the players from the 80s (don't know why it has to be the 80s, but anyway) is absurd.
Secondly, and most importantly, I'm talking about footballers, not athletes. I take it I don't need to explain the difference?
 
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Too bad I have logic and common sense on my side, the best players get better over time as training improves, player pool gets bigger, players improved athletically and their opponents get better.
Then here is some logic and common sense for you to ponder... spin it around... if GAJ didn't have today's superior training techniques, nutrition, coaching etc., would he struggle to compete with Bobby Skilton? Or Bobby Rose? Or GAJ senior? I think so.
 

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Kappa

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Then here is some logic and common sense for you to ponder... spin it around... if GAJ didn't have today's superior training techniques, nutrition, coaching etc., would he struggle to compete with Bobby Skilton? Or Bobby Rose? Or GAJ senior? I think so.
Yes, but he DOES have all those superior things.. which is why he's better, that's my point. If they had it maybe they would be? But they didn't.

Anyway, back on topic.
 

Robroy22

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Stop it "60" you're flogging a dead horse mate...
When a young lad has "logic AND common sense" on their side, they've won any argument.
Who's the best sprinter??? Bolt set the record 10 years ago???? (So stop being nostalgic about Poor old Usain)
GAJ is better than his dad because he won Brownlow's and AA's and MVP's (Brian Wilson won a Brownlow! So did Shane Woewodin) and MVP's weren't around for GAS to win (and anyway like Lockett, Matthews, Rose and others GAS had some mongrel in him and umpires never liked that in their Brownlow Medallists back then)

Some folk believe that what they see on the screen or from the internet is true. Surely stats couldn't lie?

How privileged were we to have seen these no hopers so that we could better understand the greatness of GAJ....;)
 

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Ok for the posters who remember Gavin Brown.

What are your recollections of young Gavin to Callum?

On my recollection, Gavin started quite thin.
Gavin on the eye was taller than Callum. Giving being 6 foot or so with Callum say 5’9” or so?

Gavin I also recall much more of a battering ram, even from early days.
Callum a bit more slippery but courage too.

What do others think?

NB: Gavin was one of my all time favourites.

Trivia: Gavin also is a twin, with a twin sister.
 

jonbe54

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Whilst there may be a fair bit of truth in that argument if you're just comparing the individuals out of their context, these discussions are about how dominant you were in your era.

If you put a current day test batsman into Bradman's era, had them face the same bowlers with the same standard of fielding, and the same level of benefit of the doubt that was given to batsmen, I suspect a heap of them would average as much as Bradman did, but no-one in their right mind is going to compare Shaun Marsh to Bradman.

Ablett Junior can make a claim to being as dominant in his era as his dad was or Matthews, maybe even Coleman. But to claim that he's greater simply because you have to be a much better athlete with more skills in the modern era than in earlier eras, makes a comparison between Shaun Marsh and Bradman justified, when clearly it isn't justified.
Yeah ??

Lets see how they handle legside theory with no helmet protection.

Let's see them dominate the the opposition on rain affected uncovered pitches.

Most of them would fail, it took more than skill in those days - it took courage and the ability to outlast the opposition.
 

Black_White

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Gavin was a lot harder at the man than Callum.
But that may be more a result of the way the game is played today.
Callum looks to have more skill., or maybe the potential to have more skill.
Gavin was hard at the ball, hard at the man, and a decent skill set. Callum has a way to go, but he has to carve his own name in the game.
I think he can.
 

Robroy22

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Gavin was a lot harder at the man than Callum.
But that may be more a result of the way the game is played today.
Callum looks to have more skill., or maybe the potential to have more skill.
Gavin was hard at the ball, hard at the man, and a decent skill set. Callum has a way to go, but he has to carve his own name in the game.
I think he can.

Spot on...Rowdy was bigger, faster and played a far more physical skillset than Callum. But based on how they play today I reckon Callum can be a very effective "Good ordinary player"
Gav was a much better mark too.
 

grayza2018

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Loving what Browny is doing, just growth week on week. Look at continuity of selection and the confidence it breeds

I've been on board with Browny from the start, great to see him producing

I think Daics would be similar if he could work his way into the team

Keep it up Browny!
 

Finnishpie

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Gavin was a lot harder at the man than Callum.
But that may be more a result of the way the game is played today.
Callum looks to have more skill., or maybe the potential to have more skill.
Gavin was hard at the ball, hard at the man, and a decent skill set. Callum has a way to go, but he has to carve his own name in the game.
I think he can.
Different players. Gavin Brown was bigger, harder, a better mark, more explosive physicality and less evasiveness, and a longer kick until his hammies started packing up. He could play key forward. Callan has a better side step, might be a touch faster.
 

sr36

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Yeah ??

Lets see how they handle legside theory with no helmet protection.

Let's see them dominate the the opposition on rain affected uncovered pitches.

Most of them would fail, it took more than skill in those days - it took courage and the ability to outlast the opposition.

What I'm going to say is a hiding to nothing because ive been here before and its similar sentiment to what Kappa gets criticised for, but here goes.

Leg theory was one series. Those fields, they had to bowl down leg, modern batsmen would easily duck it. If they strayed onto off, they'd be put over slips for four.

Uncovered pitches did sometimes make the pitch deadly, but more often it made the ball stop, sit up and beg to be hit. Plus a good track back then, would be considered a road today and would receive an ICC warning.

I grew up in an era where Greg Chappel and Viv Richards were regularly thrown the ball and took wickets. Bowling like they did, they wouldn't get close to the ball now and there's no way they would get wickets. Extrapolate that standard of bowling back to Bradmans era and imagine some of the puddings he was served.

Bradman is an immortal for how dominant he was in his era, but that does not mean that he would be as dominant in this era, unless he improved at the same rate as the general standard has.
 
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