List Mgmt. Cam and Zach Guthrie re-sign with Geelong

[Vdubs]

Cheap or dear they are taking up list spots.

As are all the players we contract.

 

[Vdubs]

Lack of confidence as a result of the inability to compete at the level required consistently.

Needs size, yep, but needs more time in the VFL to mature and feel better about his own game.

The games that Zac G, and Parsons etc are getting in their first 2 years are priceless for their future development. All MC's say the same thing. We are actually implementing that really well. At times they play above themselves, other times they look lost , but each game is creating value. Like slowly paying off a mortgage, but at times, paying off big chunks. It all adds up.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Lack of confidence as a result of the inability to compete at the level required consistently.

Needs size, yep, but needs more time in the VFL to mature and feel better about his own game.

Agreed.

The pre-season games last season and his first run of games he played not too bad.
Used his ability to read the ball and intercept to contribute.

Now clubs know he's not physically ready so test him and he's playing very cautiously.
Build that muscle mass, the core strength and hopefully he gets some belief to go with those couple of good attributes.

He was never getting delisted given we probably need more small defenders on the list.
He now has an additional two years to show us what growth he's capable of achieving.

 

[PatrickBateman]

The games that Zac G, and Parsons etcare getting in their first 2 years are priceless for their future development. All MC's say the same thing. We are actually implementing that really well. At times they play above themselves, other times they look lost , but each game is creating value. Like slowly paying off a mortgage, but at times, paying off big chunks. It all adds up.

How far do you want to go before compromising on standards though? I don't agree that playing the same players week after week who continually fail to do the fundamentals right (not talent but intent specific) is productive.

Pulling out of contests (Parsons especially is buttery soft) brings down team morale, creates frustration. You won't hear it from the players, but it does!

 

[year of the cat]

Cam is a coaster. Doesn’t have the mongrel or desire to be a consistent performer. Bit early to make judgement on Zac but I’m not convinced he has the athletic attributes to make it at AFL level.

 

[Sticksman]

Lack of confidence as a result of the inability to compete at the level required consistently.

Needs size, yep, but needs more time in the VFL to mature and feel better about his own game.

There's been a bit of speculation that the last few minutes of the Hawthorn game this year dented his confidence lasting beyond that game. I think he shouldn't play seniors again this year unless he's the last man standing.

I'm quite happy (not ecstatic mind you) to see him retained.

 

[Vdubs]

How far do you want to go before compromising on standards though? I don't agree that playing the same players week after week who continually fail to do the fundamentals right (not talent but intent specific) is productive.

Pulling out of contests (Parsons especially is buttery soft) brings down team morale, creates frustration. You won't hear it from the players, but it does!

Players respect both Parsons and ZG. I've heard and seen Danger for instance, speak highly of Parsons. And, They don't get games every week. Both have been dropped several times. But they are resilient enough to be available, despite their physical immaturity, whilst other players are persistently injured.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Cam is a coaster. Doesn’t have the mongrel or desire to be a consistent performer.

True.

Especially now the game is passing the elegant 'I'd rather wait out the back and not get hurt' player behind. It's all about competing, the pressure rating, intent, physicality. I heard Terry Wallace say exactly this on SEN last week.

 

[PatrickBateman]

I've heard and seen Danger for instance, speak highly of Parsons.

Yeah OK.

How often did you hear Chappy tearing shreds off of teammates in the media while playing (or any player for that matter)?. Now he's on KRock, he openly criticises them all. Listed players talking about other listed players? Grain of salt I'm afraid.

 

[Vdubs]

Yeah OK.

How often did you hear Chappy tearing shreds off of teammates in the media while playing (or any player for that matter)?. Now he's on KRock, he openly criticises them all. Listed players talking about other listed players? Grain of salt I'm afraid.

Chappy was the inspiration behind our resurgence in 07. He gave it to everybody, and they listened. He recognised we might have had wasted talent. That is not nearly our issue at present. We are evolving with juvenile talent, while hanging onto some champions and somehow, still in positions to contend.

 

[Vdubs]

True.

Especially now the game is passing the elegant 'I'd rather wait out the back and not get hurt' player behind. It's all about competing, the pressure rating, intent, physicality. I heard Terry Wallace say exactly this on SEN last week.

About which player(s)?

 

[Mahlepi]

Good post. Players who are adaptable are very useful in the modern game, for sure, but you don't get the best out of the player by using them as a 'permanent utility'. Blitz's best football has been in a set role - as second ruck (2015) and now as full back. I agree, C.Guthrie would also benefit from some stability.

its why bartel's career was not elite
he was too good at that mr fixit

 

[Vdubs]

its why bartel's career was not elite
he was too good at that mr fixit

Bartel's career was elite.

 

[Mahlepi]

Bartel's career was elite.

would you consider bartels career superior to selwoods?

 

[Cursed Cat]

I know Cam has his detractors on this board, but I for one am happy to see that he's re-signed with the club.
If his body allows him some continuity then he should really be maturing into his peak years as a player.
At his best he has some handy attributes; a good burst of speed, and I for one like his disposal by foot.
I recall him being pretty handy overhead earlier in his career but that aspect of his game never really kicked on; he's not too bad under the high ball in defense though when called upon.
Scott's thrown him into the midfield for extended periods throughout his career with mixed results; he has a fatal weakness through his core which renders him incapable of breaking a tackle, much like Zac Tuohy.
Regardless, I think when fit and firing he is a best 22 player and I'm happy to see him back on board.

I'm less convinced of his brother's extended tenure, but I'll cut him some slack given his inexperience. Andrew Mackie is the closest analogue I can compare with Zuthrie, both as rake-thin and oddly vulnerable on the field in their early days. Mackie took his time to establish himself but eventually found his niche - to me Zuthrie doesn't quite have the aerobic capacity that ultimately served Mackie so well, but he is not without footy smarts; I'd like to see him really find his feet at VFL level against other grown men and then come back and have a real crack at it. He's got a feel for the game, but to me he doesn't quite have the physical power to really influence a game one way or another.

 

[Vdubs]

would you consider bartels career superior to selwoods?

No. They can be and are both elite careers though? Would love to see Selwood get a NS in a winning premiership team as captain. That would complete him. I wasn't a massive Bartel fan, but can see he was elite.

 

[xtatik222k]

Neither is good enough to be an integral part of a premiership winning side IMO...

The more the game becomes about intent, physical pressure, etc, the less valuable players like the Guthries are. Refer to Richmond. Their players don't throw one arm out in an attempt to tackle like Cam and Parsons, they line the opposition up down the middle. Always go when it's their turn, etc.

We have other players I'd rather see the club invest in.

Can't remember the last time I agreed with an internet comment so much.

 

[dazbroncos]

Amazing how Zuthrie has gone from exciting prospect and board fav to whipping boy in the space of half a season. There's nothing like jumping online to piss on a 19 year old in his second season.

dont disagree here - but he's also been poor on return performance wise as opposed to his work early last year.

I have no issue - rather endorse - his re-signing as he will get bigger and stronger and that will help build his confidence IMO. Right now however, he's not best 22 - or best 26 IMO. Good enough to keep for sure.

GO Catters

 

[you pick one]

dont disagree here - but he's also been poor on return performance wise as opposed to his work early last year.

I have no issue - rather endorse - his re-signing as he will get bigger and stronger and that will help build his confidence IMO. Right now however, he's not best 22 - or best 26 IMO. Good enough to keep for sure.

GO Catters

I would have been happy for Cam to explore FA I can't see a spot for him in the mid field, and he leaks to many soft goals down back either getting caught holding the ball or the panic handball to someone under even more pressure than himself or worse still straight to the opposition.
Less upset about Zach's 2 years to be honest,as long as he's selected on performance.

 

[bulletproof]

I think Zach Guthrie reads the game well, gets himself into good positions and is composed. My concern with him is more his desperation level when the ball is in dispute. This may be partly size related. But what worries me is he doesn't seem to intervene to stop an opponent. He almost seems to run alongside them and shepherd them towards the goal. He doesn't seem to have a defenders instinct to really throw himself into the fray.

Happy for him to develop in the VFL on the minimum wage, no issue with his re-signing.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The one thing I hope with Cam is that 130 matches into his career that they now pick a role for him and let him develop in that role.

Until round 4 this year, the club was treating Blicavs as a tall utility who would fill in gaps where it was needed, but since round 4 he has been our #1 tall defender and we have all seen how having just one role has seen him grow in confidence and take ownership of that role, and many of us are questioning how he now gets pushed aside from it - note we dropped our ruck for round 3 & used Blitz in that role, hence why I'm not counting his defensive role in the earlier rounds.

The reason I mention Blicavs is because Cam seems to have been used as our mid-sized utility over recent seasons, filling in gaps & holes left by injuries - last year he played midfield, defender, was moved forward for a couple of games due to lack of small forwards cause of injury (a move that didn't suit him, pressure was good but goal sense lacking), and then back to tagger when Scooter is missing.

So like with Blicavs, we need to stick him in a role, tell him that it is his role to take ownership of and not move him a couple of weeks later to fill a gap due to injury, suspension or management etc

Quite a novel idea, but one the club needs to stick with

You can't teach desperation and desire.

 

[Grimoz]

its why bartel's career was not elite
he was too good at that mr fixit

Bartels career not elite, ah yeah ok.....Brownlow...Norm Smith...300 Games!!! Will go down as one of the greatest players in GFC and AFL history and will be a Hall of Famer, pretty much says elite to me.

 

[candiehappy]

would you consider bartels career superior to selwoods?

so unless you are equal or superior to Selwood you can't be elite?

give me a break ............

 

[cats_09]

Bartels career not elite, ah yeah ok.....Brownlow...Norm Smith...300 Games!!! Will go down as one of the greatest players in GFC and AFL history and will be a Hall of Famer, pretty much says elite to me.

But he never won a Carji, so surely that proves he was just overrated

 

[Mahlepi]

Bartels career not elite, ah yeah ok.....Brownlow...Norm Smith...300 Games!!! Will go down as one of the greatest players in GFC and AFL history and will be a Hall of Famer, pretty much says elite to me.

i am not saying i dont rate him
what i am saying is that if he was locked into a position he would be considered an even better player by the afl industry
I JUST THINK HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED ON AN EVEN HIGHER LEVEL