Scape Goat The Cam Guthrie Echo Chamber

[CatFan79]

Yep you never see it. It definitely didn't happen in the biggest centre clearance of the last quarter when the Hawks were back within 3 goals, the ball spilt to the wing and he put his head over the ball, took it cleanly and drew the high free kick. No that definitely didn't happen just yesterday...

You're right.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yep you never see it. It definitely didn't happen in the biggest centre clearance of the last quarter when the Hawks were back within 3 goals, the ball spilt to the wing and he put his head over the ball, took it cleanly and drew the high free kick. No that definitely didn't happen just yesterday...

In first, it was the only time, so he ought to, he's had 75 years of experience, he's played 80 gazillion games, he should provide more than that, look at Dangerwood.

 

[CatFan79]

which one of you wise-guys edited his 'playing career' section on wikipedia?

Bigger question is, which one of our Guthrie lover boys will reverse it...

 

[Footy Smarts]

He went to Henderson in the second and third quarter and quelled him somewhat. I saw it. Watch the replay, he's right on him.

Youre right about one thing... he barely went near Henderson.... he couldnt. He was his opponent for the majority of the game... no matter how much you dont want it to be true.

I've just watched the replay and I'm not sure where you guys got this idea from. He was on him for about 5 mins in the second quarter and about a minute in the 3rd and that was it.

Selwood was on Henderson for almost all the 1st quarter when he got 13 touches and then Menegola and Duncan were both on him for a fair bit from there with a little bit of Selwood and Guthrie. Most of the game Guthrie played in the centre square as the defensive sided player which meant he was up against O'Meara a lot and guys like Worpel a bit.

 

[Ray Donovan]

You Sir are 100% correct
Its hilarious to see others, on other threads, accrediting the work done on OMeara to Guthrie.
Guthrie spent the majority of the game on Henderson, and Henderson had a career best game.

Lol Henderson had nearly 10- 14 in the first quarter and a goal

 

[PatrickBateman]

which one of you wise-guys edited his 'playing career' section on wikipedia?

... hilarious

 

[Ray Donovan]

No he wasn't. Guthrie plays a key defensive role for the team and is one of the reasons our bad clearances early didn't turn into easy escapes for them because his pressure was excellent. Constable played as an inside accumulator and did well in the first 3 weeks but wasn't even in our couple of ball winning mids in any of those games. And let's be honest if Guthrie had played like Constable did in week 4 there would be calls to banish him from the country let alone the AFL team.

Guthrie is an important member of our midfield because his strengths make us vastly better balanced. Constable is an inside mid who's not in our best 4 or 5 in that area right now but deserves opportunities to develop and improve and may be best 22 depending on injuries, opponents, form and improvement. That's perfectly fine for a second year inside mid and he's progressing well but right now he's well behind Guthrie in value to the team. Frankly anyone even putting those two on the same level can only be doing it based on blindness to the excellent things Guthrie does while looking through massively rose tinted glasses at constable's games so far.

Lol you're so nervous I see through those rose tinted glasses so much clarity.

Constable

v coll

( 21 touches, 1 goal, 3 tackles, 3 clearances, 5 contested poss)

8th highest possession getter debut

V melbourne

31 touches, 1 goal, 4 tackles, 5 clearances, 13 contested possessions

2nd highest possession getter geelong behind danger. ( geelong )

Rising star nomination


V adelaide

23 touches, 1.1 goals, 1 tackle, 3 clearances, 11 contested poss.

Equal 3rd highest possession getter behind Kelly 24 ( geelong )

V gws

16 touches 7 contested poss, 2 clearances 7 tackles

On this day dangerfield had 17 touches selwood 18 and we are dragging on the 4th gamer lol.oh He stunk it up or are you so driven by your own bias that a simple role player is vital to the team you will try and drag the tiniest flaw of a 4 game player to use haha.


Guthrie has had 30 touches zero times 2017, 2018 and once in 2016. I can handle your love for Guthrie and your view he is vital for the team but the tripe you are spewing about constable is getting pretty rediculous.

140 gamer vs 4 gamer and it's close we did not miss a beat with constable. They even played Guthrie in the VFL for a week. And he played JLT only missed 2 weeks. So as much as you want Guthrie to be vital to geelong just a role player that does his job

Edit* Guthrie 22 touches and was the reason for our defensive edge around the stoppages.

 

[you pick one]

I've only replayed the first quarter so far,Guthrie started at center bounces and stoppages on a variety of players Omeara,Worple Smith Poppy maybe Henderson once,then played as a loose man,he didn't tag anyone in the first 30 minutes.
Side note anyone with kids should get them to watch Rohans first kick at goal, the replay shows clearly the hand position on the ball,the ball drop,the watching it right on to the boot and follow through,text book.Would like him to spend an hour a week with Dangerfield and one or two others.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

I've only replayed the first quarter so far,Guthrie started at center bounces and stoppages on a variety of players Omeara,Worple Smith Poppy maybe Henderson once,then played as a loose man,he didn't tag anyone in the first 30 minutes.

And those players combined for 116 disposals, 19 clearances and 6 goals.

I guess that shows Guthrie's much vaunted defensive game is actually a myth.

 

[Max Milburn]

And those players combined for 116 disposals, 19 clearances and 6 goals.

I guess that shows Guthrie's much vaunted defensive game is actually a myth.

I guess that shows you aren't accounting for the time Guthrie WASN'T on those players.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Lol you're so nervous I see through those rose tinted glasses so much clarity.

Constable

v coll

( 21 touches, 1 goal, 3 tackles, 3 clearances, 5 contested poss)

8th highest possession getter debut

V melbourne

31 touches, 1 goal, 4 tackles, 5 clearances, 13 contested possessions

2nd highest possession getter geelong behind danger. ( geelong )

Rising star nomination


V adelaide

23 touches, 1.1 goals, 1 tackle, 3 clearances, 11 contested poss.

Equal 3rd highest possession getter behind Kelly 24 ( geelong )

V gws

16 touches 7 contested poss, 2 clearances 7 tackles

On this day dangerfield had 17 touches selwood 18 and we are dragging on the 4th gamer lol.oh He stunk it up or are you so driven by your own bias that a simple role player is vital to the team you will try and drag the tiniest flaw of a 4 game player to use haha.
View attachment 660853

Guthrie has had 30 touches zero times 2017, 2018 and once in 2016. I can handle your love for Guthrie and your view he is vital for the team but the tripe you are spewing about constable is getting pretty rediculous.

140 gamer vs 4 gamer and it's close we did not miss a beat with constable. They even played Guthrie in the VFL for a week. And he played JLT only missed 2 weeks. So as much as you want Guthrie to be vital to geelong just a role player that does his job

Edit* Guthrie 22 touches and was the reason for our defensive edge around the stoppages.

This really is an impressive melt. You're really all over the place here. Guthrie produces one solid performace, people comment that it was a solid performance and the anti-Guthrie brigade lose their collective minds.

So far we've had Guthrie blamed for Henderson's dominant first quarter despite him not playing on him at all. Then apparently it was Guthrie's fault that hawthorn came back at us despite us winning most of the center clearances when he was in there in that time including him having a big role in 2 of them. Then apparently he's responsible for the total possession and goals from every Hawk midfielder. Just a hint guys, you're sounding utterly insane!

You're right in one thing you wrote. Guthrie is a "role player that does his job". That's all we need from him and all he did on the weekend. He wasn't in our best 6 but he wasn't in our worst 6 and was among a whole group of contributors. If people would prefer to pot him because a player he wasn't playing on got a lot of the ball well then so be it because they're saying a lot more about themselves than about Guthrie.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I guess that shows you aren't accounting for the time Guthrie WASN'T on those players.

So Guthrie can't tag 5 guys at once while winning us the game off his own boot? What's the point of the soft**** then? Delist!

 

[Spazz Cat]

This really is an impressive melt. You're really all over the place here. Guthrie produces one solid performace, people comment that it was a solid performance and the anti-Guthrie brigade lose their collective minds.

So far we've had Guthrie blamed for Henderson's dominant first quarter despite him not playing on him at all. Then apparently it was Guthrie's fault that hawthorn came back at us despite us winning most of the center clearances when he was in there in that time including him having a big role in 2 of them. Then apparently he's responsible for the total possession and goals from every Hawk midfielder. Just a hint guys, you're sounding utterly insane!

You're right in one thing you wrote. Guthrie is a "role player that does his job". That's all we need from him and all he did on the weekend. He wasn't in our best 6 but he wasn't in our worst 6 and was among a whole group of contributors. If people would prefer to pot him because a player he wasn't playing on got a lot of the ball well then so be it because they're saying a lot more about themselves than about Guthrie.

Preety sure RD is a Pro Guther.
He was just pointing out the comparison to Constable. Nothing else.

 

[cats_09]

And those players combined for 116 disposals, 19 clearances and 6 goals.

I guess that shows Guthrie's much vaunted defensive game is actually a myth.

If it was one vs 5 players then I'd say Guthrie didn't actually do too badly in that situation and want to know where his teammates were to help him

 

[PatrickBateman]

This really is an impressive melt.

How is an analysis using statistical information a 'melt'?

This word is being misused now by people (like yourself) who are unable to keep up or don't like where a discussion goes. If anything, you're the one melting here.

The Constable V Guthrie point is clearly legitimate, which was the purpose of the post.

 

[Footy Smarts]

How is an analysis using statistical information a 'melt'?

This word is being misused now by people (like yourself) who are unable to keep up or don't like where a discussion goes. If anything, you're the one melting here.

The Constable V Guthrie point is clearly legitimate, which was the purpose of the post.

Yeah it was purely a statistical comparison:

Lol you're so nervous I see through those rose tinted glasses so much clarity.

I can handle your love for Guthrie and your view he is vital for the team but the tripe you are spewing about constable is getting pretty rediculous.

They even played Guthrie in the VFL for a week. And he played JLT only missed 2 weeks.

This sort of language is nonsense. I didn't spew any tripe about Constable. I simply think Guthrie's more important to the team and if Guthrie had played like Constable against GWS he'd have been hung, drawn and quartered. Is that spewing tripe? Is that "dragging on a 4th gamer"? No it's just pointing out the obvious that after 3 really solid performances in the first 3 weeks Constable had a bit of a stinker against GWS.

You're right though my references to Guthrie haters are more apt for you PatrickBateman than Ray Donovan.

 

[PatrickBateman]

if Guthrie had played like Constable against GWS he'd have been hung, drawn and quartered.

Guthrie has done, consistently for years now, even as a senior player with a LOT of games under his belt.

Hence the warranted criticism.

Constable played his other 3 (first AFL games) at a level beyond what Guthrie has probably been able to produce in succession in the last 2 years, if ever. Contstable's game against GWS wasn't that bad anyway, in fact it was good considering it came from a 19yr old playing his 4th AFL game. The other three were exceptional.

There should be no slowing players like Constable down at the expense of a 'never gonna be anything but average' softy like Guthrie coming in. It's detrimental to developing the best side possible. Guthrie has had more opportunity than most to show what he can can't do.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Constable played his other 3 (first AFL games) at a level beyond what Guthrie has probably been able to produce in succession in the last 2 years, if ever.

See this is where you just look ridiculous. Guthrie finished 4th in our B&F in 2016 only 9 votes off Selwood who had an exceptional AA year despite playing a game less. Yet you suggest he may never have played as well as Constable's first 3 games? Really?

 

[PatrickBateman]

See this is where you just look ridiculous. Guthrie finished 4th in our B&F in 2016 only 9 votes off Selwood who had an exceptional AA year despite playing a game less. Yet you suggest he may never have played as well as Constable's first 3 games? Really?

Yes, really. Note I said successive games.

2016 was a greatly over exaggerated year for Guthrie, I've posted his underwhelming stats many times. He played a handful of decent games early in the season including his only ever BOG V Adelaide, which attracted a lot of attention from everywhere. His future as a star midfielder seemed a given. Before the end of the year he was playing poorly enough in the midfield that Menegola replaced him, and has subsequently outperformed him since. You don't put a performing midfielder in defense. In fact you don't move any performing player from their position, they're too valuable (star players can be an exception).

Early 2016 has been proven by Guthrie himself to be the exception rather than the rule. It probably just went his way a few more times than usual, and he ran with the additional confidence... till it ran out.

Nothing else statistically backs up what Guthrie polled in the B&F that year, including the Brownlow. Selwood was a leader in all the key midfielder stats though, Dangerfield destroyed 2016! Guthrie should have been nowhere near them in any poll. Interestingly enough, Guthrie, statistically, wasn't a lot different in 2017, when he finished 18th in the B&F (from memory). Why the discrepancy?

I truly believe the club tried to pump him up, trying to see what just wasn't there.. even putting him in the leadership group, which was clearly a failure. A leader he's not. This idea has credibility for confidence build, sure. The talent might be there, there's just so much missing though at AFL level.

 

[Ray Donovan]

This really is an impressive melt. You're really all over the place here. Guthrie produces one solid performace, people comment that it was a solid performance and the anti-Guthrie brigade lose their collective minds.

So far we've had Guthrie blamed for Henderson's dominant first quarter despite him not playing on him at all. Then apparently it was Guthrie's fault that hawthorn came back at us despite us winning most of the center clearances when he was in there in that time including him having a big role in 2 of them. Then apparently he's responsible for the total possession and goals from every Hawk midfielder. Just a hint guys, you're sounding utterly insane!

You're right in one thing you wrote. Guthrie is a "role player that does his job". That's all we need from him and all he did on the weekend. He wasn't in our best 6 but he wasn't in our worst 6 and was among a whole group of contributors. If people would prefer to pot him because a player he wasn't playing on got a lot of the ball well then so be it because they're saying a lot more about themselves than about Guthrie.

Lol what comments about hawthorn did i make or what comments about guthries game did I make. Aside from laughing at mr blicavs who is clearly winding you up

I'm not anti Guthrie I'm happy for him to be in the best 22 so you failed there. If he is in the best 22 so be it.

You were saying rose tinted glasses if we can't see constables performances for what you do.

That's why I posted his stats he wasn't in the 3 or 4 biggest ball winners in the club. Neither is Guthrie lol both are role players and I see them on the same level except one guy has 4 games the other has 140. One could be A grade mid the other is a mid-tier player and has been for the last 4 years.

So really we are firing back at your jabs about constables performance. Where did I say anything about guthries performance ? I posted his ball winning of the back off your comments.

Anti Guthrie brigade is what I am now the leader off it haha lol

 

[Footy Smarts]

Lol what comments about hawthorn did i make or what comments about guthries game did I make. Aside from laughing at mr blicavs who is clearly winding you up

I'm not anti Guthrie I'm happy for him to be in the best 22 so you failed there. If he is in the best 22 so be it.

I clearly misconstrued part of your post and some of your other sarcasm wasn't clear. So my bad there.

But I don't really see why you said I was "spewing tripe" about Constable when all I said was that he had 3 good games, although not in our best few mids (not really a criticism on him being behind Danger, Kelly, Duncan, etc) and then had a bit of a stinker against GWS (not alone there). He's doing really well for a 4-gamer and should keep being played.

I also don't really get why you started with "Lol you're so nervous I see through those rose tinted glasses so much". What does that even mean? I couldn't care less who plays for the club I just want to watch a winning team. Constable helped with that in the first 3 rounds and Guthrie helped with that on Monday. What's to be nervous about?

 

[Ray Donovan]

Game high 8 tackles, 22 touches, 4 clearances and 0 clangers. He gives us a defensive toughness in midfield we seriously lack without him. He's clearly best 22 on performance and it's not close. He can be a key player for us this year.


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This is understand where your coming from he has some leg speed I think he can do a job on another player when the times comes. Versatile enough to play wing and half back. I don't necessarily agree he will be key or vital but I do know ala gary Rohan many including myself have been critical off for some aspects of his career. He only needs to do it once or twice at the right time. Thats what role players do they arent paid to be stars and when the games on the line we know who we want the ball with.


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No he wasn't. Guthrie plays a key defensive role for the team and is one of the reasons our bad clearances early didn't turn into easy escapes for them because his pressure was excellent. Constable played as an inside accumulator and did well in the first 3 weeks but wasn't even in our couple of ball winning mids in any of those games. And let's be honest if Guthrie had played like Constable did in week 4 there would be calls to banish him from the country let alone the AFL team.

Guthrie is an important member of our midfield because his strengths make us vastly better balanced. Constable is an inside mid who's not in our best 4 or 5 in that area right now but deserves opportunities to develop and improve and may be best 22 depending on injuries, opponents, form and improvement. That's perfectly fine for a second year inside mid and he's progressing well but right now he's well behind Guthrie in value to the team. Frankly anyone even putting those two on the same level can only be doing it based on blindness to the excellent things Guthrie does while looking through massively rose tinted glasses at constable's games so far.

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This is what I was pointing
- Guthrie plays a key defensive role for us
- Our bad clearances didnt turn into easy escapes?
- because of his excellent pressure
-

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- constable wasn't even in our ball winning mids ( the point of the stats was he clearly was)

- if Guthrie had played like constable there would be calls to banish him from the country. ( I posted what happened to some of the premier mids in the comp that day) Seems your throwing some kind of heavy criticism and blame towards a player in a very comparable position to Guthrie because you like him as a player and value him highly clearly over constable only reason possible this comparison exists because its competition for your man to beat out. Why I also brought up 4 games vs 140. The impact of this particular individual is honestly incredible the developing and fastracking. This youth in the side is one of the KEY elements in geelongs early season revival.


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- He's well behind guthries value to the team. ( honestly no problem with your viewpoint but I disagree 100%) we were winning when Guthrie was in the sheds look at the ladder everyones lost last years grand finalists are battling with in consistency geelong had a bad week.

- Anyone putting these on the same level can only be doing so on blindness or looking through rose tinted glasses looking at constables games so far.

( just fully biased statement it fits your theory and thread post and your saying constables games are underwhelming compared to the might and return of guthries 22 disposals 8 tackle defensive monster fest)

That led me to post the stats of guthries numbers last two seasons. Considering the two are unparrarelled and you think Guthrie is an inside defensive beast. Constable isn't in the top 4 or 5 inside mids at the club. Well it seems he was picked and identified as it during the pre-season and his numbers back it. Never seen a person just throw shade and dismiss on a rising star nomination in 4 games.

 

[Landgraft]

.

https://www.bbcode.org/

 

[Drunkcat]

I've only replayed the first quarter so far,Guthrie started at center bounces and stoppages on a variety of players Omeara,Worple Smith Poppy maybe Henderson once,then played as a loose man,he didn't tag anyone in the first 30 minutes.
Side note anyone with kids should get them to watch Rohans first kick at goal, the replay shows clearly the hand position on the ball,the ball drop,the watching it right on to the boot and follow through,text book.Would like him to spend an hour a week with Dangerfield and one or two others.

I blame junior coaches for this should be 2 coaches with one just working on skills kicking should be so easy

 

[PatrickBateman]

Constable outperforming Guthrie. Comfortably. As has Miers.

In fact at this stage, Champion has only Atkins performing worse in the Geelong team. Unproductive.