saved his career.
Cam Mooney: Don't rely on Cloke to kick goals
- Thread starter Cousin of Daicos
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saved his career.
good call re sidey. I've got no doubt he is the cleverest small forward we've got but he rarely plays there. maybe with the extra mids this year he can play more forward. he has a great nose for goals.
Or kick it over the goal umpire's hat.
PicaBoo
Soldaat van Oranje
Fasolo and Swan looked good. Swan just knows where to stand for the footy to find him, Fasolo loves being the one running around with the ball looking for options.
As for mids, I bank on Greenwood & Treloar to hit the scoreboard too on a regular basis.
To think we are missing Elliott and Howe and yet I am already optimistic!
PTpie
Team Captain
None of us, including Mooney, are saying he shouldn't be kicking goals. We are simply stating that Clokes' strength lies in his ability to roam and present. When he opens up space behind him in the forward line, especially to damn good players like Fasolo, Elliott and Howe we become so much more dangerous and harder to match up on.
By the same token if we have the ball 70 meters out I want Cloke at the top of the square presenting for a contested grab - because we all know he can take them. I just don't want him to be the sole focus of our forward 50 entries. Use him as the decoy and take advantage of the threat he provides. He is capable of so much more if he gets the opportunity. It has been disgusting watching him in the last 2 - 3 years being mobbed 2 - 1 and sometimes even 3 - 1. The big bloke deserves a break and our current list looks like providing him the chance to be the player he was in his best years - a roaming CHF that overruns his opponents and crushes them 1 on 1 while kicking a steady stream of goals.
Another sub 40 goal year from Cloke would be hugely disappointing. I expect him to be kicking 50+ with his ability and the chances he is provided from the team.
jackcass
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Too true, but I always come back to the tried and true adage that assumption is the mother of all f*^# ups!
Buckley doesn't have the balls to drop Cloke that's part of the problem and has been for years.
jmac70
On the porch
Almost nobody agrees with you on this topic TG. Maybe time to give it a rest?
Cousin of Daicos
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Look, I GET why Cloke will never be dropped. I do, but my issue is that Buckley doesn't seem (at least on the surface) to be trying to do ANYTHING to fix the situation.
There are options if Buckley is willing to try them:
- Put him in the backline
- Drop him until he finds form
- Dock him pay for every sitter he misses
- Don't allow him inside 50
I mean try SOMETHING. Because at the moment, it seems that Buckley and most Collingwood supporters are still holding on to this idea of the 2011 Cloke that dominated the game and would have won the Coleman were it not for inaccurate kicking (he came second with 69 behind Roughead). In the end, Cloke is no longer that player and never will be. Cloke is one of those rarer cases of a big man who peaks young. He won our best and fairest in 2007 as a 20 year old.
Buckley either needs to turn him into something else or be done with him, because persisting in hoping he winds back the clock to become 2011 Cloke again isn't going to happen.
That's of course ignoring the fact that he's now about to turn 30 and we need to look to the future.
Gone Critical
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I agree 100% with what you have written here. Exactly the role for Cloke.
There were a few arguing that Cloke wouldn't need to kick many goals. That's the only thing I am contending
Gone Critical
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- #112
Think you will find 2013 was the season he just missed the Coleman to Roughy. Was 2nd in 2011 long way behind Buddy. Point probably is that 2011 and 13 were his 2 great seasons. 2014 he carried injury and he missed a significant part of 2015 with injury.
If he is fit all year he can have another very good year. I agree he may not reach 2011/13 levels but still 50+ should be the minimum we expect and 60+ the hope. If he is injury free there doesn't seem to be anything in his athletic and physical prowess that suggests he isn't a guy who can't play well late in his career. On the contrary the opposite appears the case
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
I'm genuinely salivating at the prospect of Cloke playing a more roaming role. We haven't had a player crack 200 marks in a season since Taz in 03 and in the role he played on Saturday Cloke is capable of that.
With that sort of season we'll see him contribute 60+ goals comfortably (30 of his own and 30 goal assists), plus the score involvements he'll contribute and the space he'll create in behind.
For those focused on his goal output to rate him take note of how we're moving the ball this season and how much of an emphasis we're putting on hitting the spot 30 metres from goal. Having a guy like Cloke who can take a grab 80 out and put it to within 30 with ease will be tremendous asset if we use him correctly.
FWIW Gault keeping his form up is the key to it because it relieves the pressure of holding Cloke deep.
With that sort of season we'll see him contribute 60+ goals comfortably (30 of his own and 30 goal assists), plus the score involvements he'll contribute and the space he'll create in behind.
For those focused on his goal output to rate him take note of how we're moving the ball this season and how much of an emphasis we're putting on hitting the spot 30 metres from goal. Having a guy like Cloke who can take a grab 80 out and put it to within 30 with ease will be tremendous asset if we use him correctly.
FWIW Gault keeping his form up is the key to it because it relieves the pressure of holding Cloke deep.
NT.Thunder
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Has there been any indication that Buckley is grooming Cloke for this role? Has he slimmed down a little, been working more aerobic capacity etc?
jmac70
On the porch
The AFLPA might have something to say about docking his salary for missed goals. Also wouldn't make us too attractive to other players.
My two cents worth, keep the opposition guessing.
Cloke plays some parts of the game roaming further up the ground.
Cloke plays some part of the game closer to goal.
If we can get him one on one more often, he doesn't lose many.
Cloke plays some parts of the game roaming further up the ground.
Cloke plays some part of the game closer to goal.
If we can get him one on one more often, he doesn't lose many.
NT.Thunder
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Although it would be very interesting to know what his "special Clauses" are in his contract for next year
Dynamics
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This would be invaluable. Gault doesn't have to be a superstar, he just has to hold down the position, hit the scoreboard a couple of times and make regular marking contests. If he can even pulls in some contested grabs, suddenly we have have Cloke at CHF, Gault causing headaches due to his size and Moore the young 201cm wildcard who suddenly isn't under so much pressure. Cox has also shown signs he can do a similar job to Gault. Will one stand up this year is the million dollar question.
Where it gets interesting is that we have Howe and Elliott who can take grabs and kick goals, so an effective Gault creates opportunities for them too. Sounds like Howe will be coming up the wings too, and I think a fit Elliott could do this also, which leaves holes for the others to lead into. Swan, Rusty and co rotating through... There are a lot more options than we may have thought we had 12 months ago.
So I am confused about what the structure will be over the next two seasons but I'm not really worried about it. Our KPDs are what concern me most.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
This is the second element to it. The midfield and defensive half need to switch on to the out-number.
For instance Cloke moves up-field and Fasolo's man feeds off to attempt to intercept. The player with ball in hand needs to identify this and look for Fasolo rather than just going to Cloke anyway.
The worst culprits for this are Langdon and Marsh because there's often no care in who they deliver it to. You only have to look at how often they feed the ball to Frost and Toovey (there's a reason they're always free) and whenever either has the kick in duties.
Cousin of Daicos
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Ah yeah, got my years mixed up. Thanks.
didaksrightfoot
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I am not expecting him to be a superstar again... there are clearly a group of KPF's who have surpassed him at this stage... and he isn't catching them.
But there is no doubting the role that he can still play for this team.
None of your options make sense.
He is still by far our best KPF option - by a country mile.
Reid has had trouble staying healthy, and is more valuable to the team in the backline.
White is the only other one who has shown to be even average AFL level... and so far this pre-season he looks well below that. Can't see him providing much at this stage.
Moore is still young, and though his body looks bigger, I can't see him making too much of an impact on the scoreboard just yet. (ie. nothing in the Jesse Hogan realms for 2nd year)... let him play his role this year and hopefully starts to show more soon - maybe even later this year.
And Gault has had a very good pre-season, but the few games we saw of him at AFL level showed that was just not up to standard. He has clearly done the right things and deserves another shot - but I'm not overly optimistic that this form will continue into the season proper. (but good luck to him).
And Cox has made huge improvements - but isn't ready just yet.
If you move Cloke outside the 50, to the backline, or drop him - who of the above do you think can honestly be a consistent target for inside 50 entries?
Yes Cloke should roam more. Yes we need to get him using his tank against opposition and have him regularly up the wings (which Bucks also had him doing plenty of last year). Yes it is bad for the team when he gets stuck in 1-2 wrestles in the goal square.
But he is still our best option going forward, and as long as he's doing the above things, should still be a target for many of our forward 50 entries (as long as its a 1-1 on the lead)
If they are focusing on Cloke and double/triple teaming him then there can only be better options, Fasolo for one starting to live up to the hype (mostly his own!) Cloke is either one on one or we have other options in better position.
Tarrants career was never in doubt, talent wise, forwrad or back.
What really saved his career was the foot up the bum he got when Collingwood sacked him.
