Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Is this what keeps you up at night? Is that why you post in this thread at 2 and 3 in the morning?
See you in the morning Danny!
Cam Rayner
- Thread starter La Dispute
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Is this what keeps you up at night? Is that why you post in this thread at 2 and 3 in the morning?
See you in the morning Danny!
- Apr 29, 2016
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I want to see Meteoric try and justify the game somehow. Maybe he'll mention his 3 score involvements or his 1 inside 50m or 3 clearances or his 0 tackles was because he was applying perceived pressure
I can bet you my bottom dollar that if Spargo played as much time as Rayner in the midfield, he'd average more disposals per game.
ImissFrosty
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Think he probably makes it as a good B to B+ mid, maybe a top 3 bnf once or something like that but * me you'd want to at least see something. He's so average, just average at everything and super inconsistent. And you don't use pick 1 on a role player lol
Think it was mentioned before but would watch last week's first crack, really highlighted how poor he was defending at stoppage. Just didn't wanna go with our mids at all.
Think it was mentioned before but would watch last week's first crack, really highlighted how poor he was defending at stoppage. Just didn't wanna go with our mids at all.
scott_the_man
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We get it, you like Bailey Fritsch. You should start a Bailey Fritsch thread because no one here is even comparing the two.
00Stinger
100 - 7
Piss poor number 1 pick
He will be an ok player long term but is a bust as far as top 10 picks go
He will be an ok player long term but is a bust as far as top 10 picks go
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
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Take the kid out back and shoot him.
I’ll still give him till the end of the season.
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What is his position exactly?
From what ive seen, he simply doesnt get enough of the ball in his current spot.
From what ive seen, he simply doesnt get enough of the ball in his current spot.
scott_the_man
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From what I gathered he played about 80% forward last night. Some weeks he spends more time on ball. Seems he himself is a little confused at his role.
I reckon he's disappointing for a pick 1. He's been solid to good at times, but that's what you're content with from a pick 35, there's higher expectations of pick 1.
He might come good, but he doesn't really look like a future star at all.
He might come good, but he doesn't really look like a future star at all.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
I would encourage people to be a bit more patient, especially with Cam coming off an ACL.
At an equivalent age Dusty was known around these parts as dustinbin Martin and petracca was fatracca (he hadn’t progressed to the flatracca nickname he had prior to his rise as a top player).
The only satisfying part about this thread is the real estate being occupied in some teams posters heads.
At an equivalent age Dusty was known around these parts as dustinbin Martin and petracca was fatracca (he hadn’t progressed to the flatracca nickname he had prior to his rise as a top player).
The only satisfying part about this thread is the real estate being occupied in some teams posters heads.
Lol, dude. No. That understanding couldn't be further from the reality. Dusty was widely praised from year 1, and was putting senior players on their ass and getting widespread excitement. He became elite years later, but was a very good performer from a very early age.
His first 5 years looked like this:
Debut season: 21 games, 20.2 disposals a game, 11 goals
2nd Year: 22 games, 22.1 disposals, 33 goals
3rd Year: 20 games, 22.4 disposals, 23 goals
4th Year: 23 games, 24.2 disposals, 23 goals
5th Year: 23 games, 25.4 disposals, 27goals
Dusty was arguably playing better footy in his first year than Rayner ever has, and from Dusty's second season it's no contest, that's better than Rayner has ever played in his career.
Elmer_Judd
Everyone's favourite grouch
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Dusty is a once in a generation (25 or longer) player, bit unfair of anyone (not talking about you at all specifically, to compare Rayner or anyone else to that
No one before or since can compare to Dusty and it's pointless to debate that otherwise friend
- Apr 29, 2016
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I'm sorry but you can't have your fellow Brisbane fans hyping him up saying he's better than Fritsch, his ceiling is petracca-esque, and still a top 3 player in his draft only to demand for more patience when he falls flat on his face.
p.s. this whole 'living rent free in peoples heads' is one of the most overused phrases on Bigfooty. Can we be original?
I still maintain that Spargo has produced much more than Rayner so far in their careers. Much more. Maybe Rayner pegs him back with a higher ceiling and with a few good seasons but he is a loooonngg way back.
Meteoric, where art thou?
Agreed, was responding to the Brisbane poster who said at the same age Dusty was trash, which isn't true.Dusty is a once in a generation (25 or longer) player, bit unfair of anyone (not talking about you at all specifically, to compare Rayner or anyone else to that
No one before or since can compare to Dusty and it's pointless to debate that otherwise friend
Elmer_Judd
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Beats me what he/she were talking about , Dusty was pretty much a gun from day one , it's the extraordinary leap and rise he dispayed since now and then which is unprecedented.
Rayner will be a good player, but not close to Dusty tier levels (and that is no shame , not sure anyone else in the league will ever reach it)
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Brisbane Lions: every top 10 draft pick ever.
1996... pick 3... Rory Hilton
1997... pick 5... Luke Power
1998... pick 1... Des Headland
1999... pick 6... Damian Cupido
2002... pick 3... Jared Brennan
2005... pick 9... Mitch Clark
2006... pick 4... Matthew Leuenberger
2007... pick 8... Lachie Henderson
2008... pick 7... Daniel Rich
2010... pick 5... Jared Polec
2011... pick 8... Billy Longer
2012... pick 8... Sam Mayes
2013... pick 7... James Aish
2015... pick 2... Josh Schache
2016... pick 3... Hugh McCluggage
2017... pick 1... Cam Rayner
Luke Power, Daniel Rich and Hugh McCluggage are the only ones Lions fans would be happy with.
Many of the others moved on to other clubs and played 100+ games, but they've all been disappointing and failed to live up to their pre-draft billing
1996... pick 3... Rory Hilton
1997... pick 5... Luke Power
1998... pick 1... Des Headland
1999... pick 6... Damian Cupido
2002... pick 3... Jared Brennan
2005... pick 9... Mitch Clark
2006... pick 4... Matthew Leuenberger
2007... pick 8... Lachie Henderson
2008... pick 7... Daniel Rich
2010... pick 5... Jared Polec
2011... pick 8... Billy Longer
2012... pick 8... Sam Mayes
2013... pick 7... James Aish
2015... pick 2... Josh Schache
2016... pick 3... Hugh McCluggage
2017... pick 1... Cam Rayner
Luke Power, Daniel Rich and Hugh McCluggage are the only ones Lions fans would be happy with.
Many of the others moved on to other clubs and played 100+ games, but they've all been disappointing and failed to live up to their pre-draft billing
Toffee Lion
BigFooty Rising Star
It's amazing where we got to considering we never stuck our top picks during the lean years.
Polec/Longer/Mayes/Aish/Schache. What a crap heap but fortunately we picked well with our 2nd & 3rd picks. I don't have the time to go back and look but we hit some pretty decent gems in the 10's/20's/30's.
Truthfully though, the Lions are where we are now because of good list management through trading & free agency. Taking gambles on players like Marcus Adams and Linc McCarthy. Poaching Charlie Cameron for only Pick 12 (lmao) etc.
As for Rayner though, it's a shame he got taken pick 1 because I think had he got taken around Pick 20, he'd be a servicable player with some upside still left in him after an ACL. Would take him over Aish/Mayes/Longer/Polec/Schache every day as well.
Snuffaluphagus
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I'd like to say that's a crazy bad record but could be putting my foot in it without checking ours, I feel Pav, Serong, Hasleby and Brayshaw alone should save us from total embarrassment.
On Rayner, there's not really any way you can say he's at the level you expect from a number 1 pick, before or after ACL. The odd signs he's shown this year should be the bare minimum, not the best ofs. Games like last night shouldnt be happening, ACL or not.
Still, the saving grace is that generally an ACL takes a year of playing to recover from. I think at best he turns into a reasonable player at the level, would be stunned if he lived up to pick 1 potential/hype.
Snuffaluphagus
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During this contending stint, your trading and injury management has been unreal. Your S&C guys have been nothing short of miracle workers
I am here Dan.
Two weaker games from Rayner on the bounce. He may be starting to flag a bit or maybe just couldn’t get into those games for whatever reason. Nothing changes about Rayner for me, he is still worth a pick around pick 10 in a typical strength draft. If he was a racehorse his trainer would be tempted to give him a spell in the paddock and produce a much stronger colt next autumn. But he has definitely shown enough in this campaign to show he has a high ceiling, unlike some of the players you are spouting that will peak at decent and that is it.
I have said from the start on this thread, next year will give a better opportunity to judge Rayner. He is an exciting prospect though, imo.
For all these guys the real test comes when they are in their prime aged 23-29. Rayner does not turn 23 until after this season and of course we must remember he entered the season off an ACL rehab. But there will come a point where we get the answer to the two crucial questions:
- what role can Rayner play? Mid, mid-forward, hybrid forward, or some other role? If he is to be a marquee player he needs to be able to cut it in the midsection, or as a mid-forward. Unlike Joe the Goose goal scab Bayley Fritsch or midget bum chaser Chuck Spargo, who can never be marquee level players. And the second question will be….
- how can he perform in whatever role he is assigned in the biggest games against the best opposition? If he makes it to marquee level, is he a Martin/Petracca, or a Dangerfield/Fyfe? Or if he remains in a lesser role, is he a Fritsch/Houli or a Darling/Rohan? Or somewhere in between?
We are not likely to start getting reliable answers to these questions until next season. Regardless, I am not writing off Rayner’s chances of producing something emphatic in the biggest games this season.
For now, we can note Rayner averages 7.4 contested possessions per match this season off an ACL rehab. Uncontested beasts Fritsch and Spargo average 7.8 between them.
Nunez
Premium Platinum
It's almost like development isn't linear and players can have good and bad games?
- Apr 29, 2016
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Ah he's come out of the woods like the unabomber checking his weekly mail.I am here Dan.
Two weaker games from Rayner on the bounce. He may be starting to flag a bit or maybe just couldn’t get into those games for whatever reason. Nothing changes about Rayner for me, he is still worth a pick around pick 10 in a typical strength draft. If he was a racehorse his trainer would be tempted to give him a spell in the paddock and produce a much stronger colt next autumn. But he has definitely shown enough in this campaign to show he has a high ceiling, unlike some of the players you are spouting that will peak at decent and that is it.
I have said from the start on this thread, next year will give a better opportunity to judge Rayner. He is an exciting prospect though, imo.
For all these guys the real test comes when they are in their prime aged 23-29. Rayner does not turn 23 until after this season and of course we must remember he entered the season off an ACL rehab. But there will come a point where we get the answer to the two crucial questions:
- what role can Rayner play? Mid, mid-forward, hybrid forward, or some other role? If he is to be a marquee player he needs to be able to cut it in the midsection, or as a mid-forward. Unlike Joe the Goose goal scab Bayley Fritsch or midget bum chaser Chuck Spargo, who can never be marquee level players. And the second question will be….
- how can he perform in whatever role he is assigned in the biggest games against the best opposition? If he makes it to marquee level, is he a Martin/Petracca, or a Dangerfield/Fyfe? Or if he remains in a lesser role, is he a Fritsch/Houli or a Darling/Rohan? Or somewhere in between?
We are not likely to start getting reliable answers to these questions until next season. Regardless, I am not writing off Rayner’s chances of producing something emphatic in the biggest games this season.
For now, we can note Rayner averages 7.4 contested possessions per match this season off an ACL rehab. Uncontested beasts Fritsch and Spargo average 7.8 between them.
I can sense in the tone of your post that you're a little deflated. And rightly so. You've deflected to 2023, wise move. I'm sure you'll come back whenever it suits you Rayner plays a serviceable game though
Your reference to Rayner's hypothetical ceiling is irrelevant. When we started this whole draft position discussion, we were talking about total value, not who reaches the highest heights. And at this stage Spargo is still very much ahead of Rayner in total value. When Spargo has a quiet game, it's no big deal he's a pressure forward with limited opportunities. But when Rayner plays a juicy inside mid role with plenty of centre bounce attendances and has a trash game like he did on the weekend he is taking away the opportunity for someone else to actually go in there and impact the game.
i'm not sure your obsession with the definition of marquee. Fritsch was 2nd in norm smith voting after kicking the most goals in a granny for 20 years and is top 10 in the afl for goals for 2 years straight. I'm more than happy with where he is at, marquee or not.
So we can sum out and say that Rayner is poor defensively. Vision was shown of him last week when our midfield pantsed your midfield. And we can sum up that he struggled to find the ball. At least consistently. 15 touches is gross with the amount of opportunities he gets.
It's good that you now at least acknowledge that brisbane stuffed the pick up. Pick 1, now pick 10. Next minute it'll be 24 (where i have him).
Absolute rubbish.
Dusty would have won the rising star if he didn't get suspended.
Cam Raynor is in his fifth season on an AFL list. In his fifth season Martin came thrid in the Richmond B&F and made the All Australian 40 shortlist. We was an absolute gun at the same age.
The following is from the Melbourne B&F in 2019 where Christian Petracca was in his fifth year on an AFL list (like Raynor he also missed one with a knee reco - the following year he won the B&F and was all Australia):
Christian Petracca has come fifth in Melbourne’s Best and Fairest for 2019, receiving 293 votes.
The 23-year-old had a career-best year, booting 22 goals from his 22 games.
Later in the season, Petracca pushed into the midfield and showed some good signs, with a season-high 25 disposals in Round 23 to finish on a high.
Petracca was thoroughly deserving of his first top-five placing and will be able to build into a big 2020 pre-season.
Edit - By the end of his fifth AFL season, Jack Watts had 7 Brownlow votes, Raynor heading into this season on 5.......
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Ah he's come out of the woods like the unabomber checking his weekly mail.
I can sense in the tone of your post that you're a little deflated. And rightly so. You've deflected to 2023, wise move. I'm sure you'll come back whenever it suits you Rayner plays a serviceable game though
Your reference to Rayner's hypothetical ceiling is irrelevant. When we started this whole draft position discussion, we were talking about total value, not who reaches the highest heights. And at this stage Spargo is still very much ahead of Rayner in total value. When Spargo has a quiet game, it's no big deal he's a pressure forward with limited opportunities. But when Rayner plays a juicy inside mid role with plenty of centre bounce attendances and has a trash game like he did on the weekend he is taking away the opportunity for someone else to actually go in there and impact the game.
i'm not sure your obsession with the definition of marquee. Fritsch was 2nd in norm smith voting after kicking the most goals in a granny for 20 years and is top 10 in the afl for goals for 2 years straight. I'm more than happy with where he is at, marquee or not.
So we can sum out and say that Rayner is poor defensively. Vision was shown of him last week when our midfield pantsed your midfield. And we can sum up that he struggled to find the ball. At least consistently. 15 touches is gross with the amount of opportunities he gets.
It's good that you now at least acknowledge that brisbane stuffed the pick up. Pick 1, now pick 10. Next minute it'll be 24 (where i have him).
Out of interest where would you rate Zac Bailey now? he was originally pick 15 in the 2017 AFL Draft. Obviously going a lot better than Rayner.
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