Cam Rayner

[danster168]

Schultz was traded for a pick that ended up at 38 in the 2023 draft + Collingwood's first round pick in the 2024 draft, which given they are the Premiers and there are again loads of high end father-sons etc, will be expected to land in the early 20's. So you are probably talking about pick 38 and pick 22 or something like that. If traded for a single pick those picks would have a marketable value of around pick 18, and Collingwood paid a premium because they think they are in the window and they really needed that type of player. Teams would offer that or more for Rayner if they needed a player with his profile.

If Rayner had no work ethic, how does he finish genuine 5th in the B & F for a Grand Final team? That point does not make any sense at all. No way the coaches would be recognising him like that if he had no work ethic.

In terms of goal impact there is barely any difference between Schultz and Rayner so I don't know why that should be such a focus.

Saying crashing packs means nothing is just displaying a lack of understanding about how football works Danster.

Put Rayner vs Schultz to the football public and see what the results are. You've lost the plot mate! You need to start comparing Rayner to fringe players I'm the 17-23 range. You've let the BnF finish distort your view. It's like me saying Neal-Bullen is better than Charlie Cameron.
The fact that you couldn't even say that Fritsch was better than Rayner was embarassing.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Rayner is much stronger than Treacy in a contest at this point at least. This is probably why Treacy runs at about 4 contested possessions per game and Rayner has spent the last 2 whole season and this season going at 6-7 contested possessions per game.

Rayner is a pick 1
Treacy is pick 7 in the rookie draft

 

[danster168]

Rayner is much stronger than Treacy in a contest at this point at least. This is probably why Treacy runs at about 4 contested possessions per game and Rayner has spent the last 2 whole season and this season going at 6-7 contested possessions per game.

yeah because Treacy is a guy that gets midfield time...what a ridiculous comparison. I'd take Treacy comfortably. At least he's a forward threat.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Rayner is a pick 1
Treacy is pick 7 in the rookie draft

Sure, Treacy is looking better relative to the position he was taken in the draft. But you introduced him saying he has Rayner's ability to crash packs. I am not sure he does but I will take your word for it. The rest of their games at this point it is a no contest, and for your point to be valid Treacy would need to be matching Rayner overall. He isn't close to doing so up to this point in proceedings, like not within the same hemisphere.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

yeah because Treacy is a guy that gets midfield time...what a ridiculous comparison. I'd take Treacy comfortably. At least he's a forward threat.

Right so Rayner plays some midfield time AND has a significantly higher scoreboard impact than Treacy.

But apparently Treacy can crash packs with the best of them.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Right so Rayner plays some midfield time AND has a significantly higher scoreboard impact than Treacy.

But apparently Treacy can crash packs with the best of them.

I’d rather hit a contest with cam coming the other way than Tracey.
That’s all I was comparing.
That seems to be Cams 1 wood by your eyes

 

[Andyy]

Rayner stinks for a pick 1.

There's not a single Lions fan who honestly wouldn't go back in time and change that pick to at least another dozen options.

Doesn't matter how good or bad he is, just that he's ordinary for a P1, and interestingly a lot of P1's end up ordinary. Maybe the pressure is too much...

 

[augie]

Rayner a lot more talented, but far lazier.

Shows hard work will always beat natural talent

I've watched him first 2 games and I don't think work ethic is the issue. He looks a lot fitter and is working pretty hard across the ground. He just doesn't look like he knows how to find the ball.

 

[danster168]

Haha? Danster wouldn't waste his time in a thread, only to be proven wrong mate...

So I was wrong was I bz? Never! Literally predicted his stats accurately 6 months ahead of time 2 years in a row very accurately!

 

[bzparkes]

So I was wrong was I bz? Never! Literally predicted his stats accurately 6 months ahead of time 2 years in a row very accurately!

Thankfully he's still got an 8 or so year career ahead of him.

 

[danster168]

Thankfully he's still got an 8 or so year career ahead of him.

6 years waiting for the Cam Rayner breakout

 

[HairyO]

Rayner stinks for a pick 1.

There's not a single Lions fan who honestly wouldn't go back in time and change that pick to at least another dozen options.

Doesn't matter how good or bad he is, just that he's ordinary for a P1, and interestingly a lot of P1's end up ordinary. Maybe the pressure is too much...

If you'd said half a dozen, maybe. But a dozen?

If you include rucks, key forwards and key defenders who almost never go super high in a draft maybe 10 others.

You should check his draft year. It wasnt an overly strong one.

When he is on he has brilliant games, but he goes missing so often you do have to wonder what is going on.

 

[Andyy]

If you'd said half a dozen, maybe. But a dozen?

If you include rucks, key forwards and key defenders who almost never go super high in a draft maybe 10 others.

You should check his draft year. It wasnt an overly strong one.

When he is on he has brilliant games, but he goes missing so often you do have to wonder what is going on.

Each to their own, but looking at the draft I would prefer (for consistency or positional role) any of:
Andrew Brayshaw
LDU
Adam Cerra
Aaron Naughton
Zac Bailey
Oscar Allen
Tim Kelly
Noah Balta
Sam Taylor
Bayley Fritsch
Harrison Petty
Charlie Ballard

Liam Baker
Brody Mihocek

You might disagree on some of them but I think it's fair to say that all or the vast majority of those players have established themselves and performed better to date.

 

[adammania9]

Lol. No they aren't.

I think good handful of the key position players are ahead of Rayner.

Naughton Balta Taylor McCartin Allen without hesitation. Mihocek is simply not good enough to be ahead of many of these players. His top 10 Copeland Trophy finishes are 2019 9th, 2020 8th, 2023 8th. He is a budget KPP. Amartey has only just become a first choice best 22 player. Petty needs more runs on the board, you could argue him at his best but he hasn't shown it for long enough to be elevating him too far at this stage. DeKoning looks to be on the rise but on the whole has done absolutely nothing of note so far. Xerri is an honest ruck but has barely played. Nathan Murphy please.

The guys who are entrenched quality inside mids Brayshaw, Uniacke, Cerra are more valuable than Rayner and Kelly has been. You have listed a whole lot of other players who play lesser value roles like Rayner, and to be honest some of them are doing it better than Rayner right now but overall he is a clear level below hardly any of them. All these guys including Rayner will go in and out of vogue according to form, fitness etc over time. There aren't too many award winners amongst them.

Another day, another comically bad Meteoric Rise take.

 

[danster168]

If you'd said half a dozen, maybe. But a dozen?

If you include rucks, key forwards and key defenders who almost never go super high in a draft maybe 10 others.

You should check his draft year. It wasnt an overly strong one.

When he is on he has brilliant games, but he goes missing so often you do have to wonder what is going on.

Read the thread mate. There's about 26 players better than Rayner in this draft alone.

 

[Cyclops]

Hasnt delivered yet but I think he'll come good. More of a JDG than a Colin Sylvia

Colin Sylvia

Age

38

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

1.8

2star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.2

3star

.

 

[Lionheart182]

Rayner stinks for a pick 1.

There's not a single Lions fan who honestly wouldn't go back in time and change that pick to at least another dozen options.

Doesn't matter how good or bad he is, just that he's ordinary for a P1, and interestingly a lot of P1's end up ordinary. Maybe the pressure is too much...

You've also got to remember what shape the club was in when we had that #1 pick, Fagan had just come in and not coached a game yet, we were coming off the Leppa years of conceding 130 points per game (that is a real stat btw) and we were on AFL life support, interest in the sport was at an all time low.

The club needed an exciting #1 pick and whilst AB/LDU would be pretty handy right now, they weren't what we needed at the time. There were also significant go home risks with a number of players in the top handful so we couldn't really afford to take a risk on a Naughton for example. Rayner was seen as an exciting prospect who could get people through the gates and likely wouldn't be a flight risk.

 

[RonnieRaven]

You've also got to remember what shape the club was in when we had that #1 pick, Fagan had just come in and not coached a game yet, we were coming off the Leppa years of conceding 130 points per game (that is a real stat btw) and we were on AFL life support, interest in the sport was at an all time low.

The club needed an exciting #1 pick and whilst AB/LDU would be pretty handy right now, they weren't what we needed at the time. There were also significant go home risks with a number of players in the top handful so we couldn't really afford to take a risk on a Naughton for example. Rayner was seen as an exciting prospect who could get people through the gates and likely wouldn't be a flight risk.

AB is 100% professional I suspect if he was drafted to the suns he would have stayed loyal.
Dusty had a career year in 2017 the draft comes up and Rayner is compared to dusty.
Unfortunately the lure was to strong but in reality players like dusty and petracca aren’t in every draft their special for a reason.
AB would of been best for lions but the mirage of dusty was to vivid.

 

[Lionheart182]

AB is 100% professional I suspect if he was drafted to the suns he would have stayed loyal.
Dusty had a career year in 2017 the draft comes up and Rayner is compared to dusty.
Unfortunately the lure was to strong but in reality players like dusty and petracca aren’t in every draft their special for a reason.

AB is a very good player, no doubting his professionalism, more that using #1 on him when the club was in dire straights wasn't what was required, he is not a player who stands out very much and is more of a workhorse with good skills. Like I said, Rayner at the time was seen as someone who could be very exciting and bring people back to footy, so far he has shown glimpses of this so you can understand the logic at the time IMO.

 

[RonnieRaven]

AB is a very good player, no doubting his professionalism, more that using #1 on him when the club was in dire straights wasn't what was required, he is not a player who stands out very much and is more of a workhorse with good skills. Like I said, Rayner at the time was seen as someone who could be very exciting and bring people back to footy, so far he has shown glimpses of this so you can understand the logic at the time IMO.

like I said I can see the logic in lions mind but it was the wrong logic.
AB the player who does not stand out/ workhorse whos won an MVP a BNF
(top 3, 4 years in a row) and has a AA guernsey.
That top 5 bnf finish by cam last year was filled with highlights no doubt

 

[Lionheart182]

like I said I can see the logic in lions mind but it was the wrong logic.
AB the player who does not stand out/ workhorse whos won an MVP a BNF
(top 3, 4 years in a row) and has a AA guernsey.
That top 5 bnf finish by cam last year was filled with highlights no doubt

Don't be offended mate. AB is a gun but he is not a flashy player. That is in no way a sledge.

 

[Andyy]

Obviously hindsight is 20-20. Don't you wish your clubs recruiters had 5 years worth of it...

I certainly do at Richmond. We've had loads of busts.

 

[danster168]

Meteoric Rise Remember when you said Rayner was better than Fritsch. lol, the good old days. Another 5 today and no-one is even surprised. And when asked why Rayner doesn't kick goals 'because umm because umm, it's umm not his role'. LOL

 

[Daka]

Rayner stinks for a pick 1.

There's not a single Lions fan who honestly wouldn't go back in time and change that pick to at least another dozen options.

Doesn't matter how good or bad he is, just that he's ordinary for a P1, and interestingly a lot of P1's end up ordinary. Maybe the pressure is too much...

He also plays nothing like Dustin Martin too which who he was compared to as a junior.
Was never convinced about him.

 

[Nunez]

They really need to pick a role for Cam and stick with it. He got his fitness up to a point he can spend proper time in the midfield then proceeded to play Jarrod Lyons which limited Cams opportunities to play inside mid.

Further to that, we also played a third tall in round 0, meaning he couldn't play his forward role either.

Against Freo, we used him as a third tall in a game where the mids were getting dominated. In the fourth, we put him on the ball and ended up winning the quarter.

In both games - despite his limited minutes on the ball, he won team-high centre clearances.

The coaches need to decide how they want to use Cam and stick with it.

Ideally, we play Neale and Dunkley full time on the ball and give both Rayner and McCluggage the rest of the major on-ball minutes.

Rayner and Dunks are both good marks so makes sense to rotate the two on ball and FF.