Cam Rayner

[Elixuh]

no they can't. it's all relative to the game that's being played. if rayner ever features in the top half a dozen players then he'll get a coaches vote. simple.

Posting in a cam rayner thread at 1.30am

 

[Righteo]

Slowly but surely becoming the player he was meant to be.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

haha, lol. at least confess that you got ahead of yourself? you posted just at the time that he was finding the ball. nek mennit, no influence on the game. Let me know when your own coach actually values him in his votes. 9 disposals in the 2nd half with PLENTY of CBA's. that's what you call average.

No idea why you're mentioning Frisch. 12 goals in his last 4.

It is not me ahead of myself Dan it is you behind. Rayner is making massive plays that very few AFL players can do.

Rayner 20 disposals, 5 clearances, 2 goal assists, 12 contested disposals, 5 score involvements, 428 metres gained is a very solid game for a young centre forward, against a top opponent interstate away. He is getting a lot of attention from the commentators because he is pulling off some stunning plays.

You need to get with the gram Dan. Pick 30

Please don’t admit defeat though, a very decent thread will die. You are the last one standing on your side of the argument. You will notice all the others have….well they have vanished Dan.

 

[scoman]

Slowly but surely becoming the player he was meant to be.

Its a slow burn all right. At this rate he might still become the next Petracca/ Dusty in ten years time. Just as he retires

In all seriousness though it has been exciting watching him the last few weeks. Becoming a fairly handy player. We desperately need him to continue to improve though as the rest of our inside mid brigade are undersized.

 

[PTizzle]

Jeez, starting to show some super exciting signs. Wasn't the only one who fell away in the second half but was one of the best players on the ground in the first. His strength bursting out of packs is what I'd always hoped he'd develop. I think I'll cope if he doesn't get coaches votes.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Remember reading pre draft reports of Rayner tearing teams a new one almost single handed and now we're starting to see this in the seniors.

Will be a mid field monster when he peaks

 

[danster168]

It is not me ahead of myself Dan it is you behind. Rayner is making massive plays that very few AFL players can do.

Rayner 20 disposals, 5 clearances, 2 goal assists, 12 contested disposals, 5 score involvements, 428 metres gained is a very solid game for a young centre forward, against a top opponent interstate away. He is getting a lot of attention from the commentators because he is pulling off some stunning plays.

You need to get with the gram Dan. Pick 30

Please don’t admit defeat though, a very decent thread will die. You are the last one standing on your side of the argument. You will notice all the others have….well they have vanished Dan.

just listing a lot of stats doesnt make them impressive. He had 16 cba's. 20 touches is underwhelming. it's not terrible, but its definitely not good. Rayner had 5 clearances. Cool. Hayden Young had 4 from a back flank. lol.

As you already know, its a rolling ranking. I'm happy to bump him up a few spots.

But you lost all credit when you compared Rayner to a guy that kicked 6 in a granny lol. no coming back from that.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

just listing a lot of stats doesnt make them impressive. He had 16 cba's. 20 touches is underwhelming. it's not terrible, but its definitely not good. Rayner had 5 clearances. Cool. Hayden Young had 4 from a back flank. lol.

As you already know, its a rolling ranking. I'm happy to bump him up a few spots.

But you lost all credit when you compared Rayner to a guy that kicked 6 in a granny lol. no coming back from that.

It wasn’t a rolling ranking dan, it was you nailing your colours to the mast stating how good Rayner is going to be versus his draft class.

But ffs, don’t bump him up too many places, you will kill the thread.

Rayner is forcing his way into the strong Brisbane midfield and you are salty about it.

Spargo cannot even get a run in a weakened Melbourne midfield. It is so bad that Neal-Bullan and Dungstan have been sent in there ahead of him when they have starting mids unavailable. You are struggling very badly here dan, but please, keep struggling.

 

[danster168]

It wasn’t a rolling ranking dan, it was you nailing your colours to the mast stating how good Rayner is going to be versus his draft class.

But ffs, don’t bump him up too many places, you will kill the thread.

Rayner is forcing his way into the strong Brisbane midfield and you are salty about it.

Spargo cannot even get a run in a weakened Melbourne midfield. It is so bad that Neal-Bullan and Dungstan have been sent in there ahead of him when they have starting mids unavailable. You are struggling very badly here dan, but please, keep struggling.

what on earth are you talking about? Spargo is a forward pocket not a midfielder...? Please address this oversight in your next reply. Also, weakened midfield? We're fully stocked in there. No injuries. No idea what you're on about.

Also, of course it's a rolling ranking. How could it possibly not be? My ranking of Rayner hasn't changed greatly.

 

[danster168]

- The fact that Rayner was highly rated by Brisbane is irrelevant though. Paddy Dow was rated as the 3rd best kid in the draft. but now, it means nothing. The AFL community has written off Dow as a player and I don't think Rayner should be excused from this level of criticism either. not until he puts together a string of good games and consistency.

- Like other people have said. Guys like Rachele, Horne Francis etc. have shown more in the first 4 games of their careers than Rayner has shown in any of his first 4 seasons so I'm not sure why you're so comfortable to give him so much time to prove something? Good players just get things done regardless of whatever systems or team they play for. Rachele and Horne Francis are good examples of this.

- I hear what you're saying regarding the age of a recruit and their trade value. I do agree with this. I think he's got 7 years left. He's a skinny bloke, rangey type who tend to play for a long time. I think his trade value would be high, especially for a team in their premiership window. Imagine, if the dogs had Fritsch in the same forward line as Naughton.

- I do rate Prestia as a player but I think I rate him below Fritsch because midfielders grow on trees but forwards don't. Nothing on Prestia. I don't think Prestia has been in an AA squad before (?) and I also think that Fritsch's finals performance can't be glossed over. 6 in the grand final which hasn't been done in 24 years. I'll repeat that, 24 years. He also, kicked 4 in qualifying final.

- Regarding Ziebell, could? but hasn't. He's 31 and never has shown to have what Fritsch has. He's not as mobile, and not as dominant aerially, and not as good at ground level. Ziebell's a good overhead mark and a good kick but he doesn't have the zippiness of Fritsch. Fritsch isn't a midfielder so not sure why it matters that he can't play midfield. Either could most forwards.

- You mention Arimtage/Will Brodie/ Mitch Clark/ Tomlinson/Coffield/Logue/ Moore etc. but I'm not sure why? We're talking about one of the best forwards in the league, it's safe to say that these players never were or will never be one of the best in their position in the AFL.

- I don't think you can say Serong and Tarryn Thomas are tracking 'well ahead' of Fritsch. I think this comment means you're completely disrespecting how good of a player Fritsch is. At this stage, neither of these 2 players are near Fritch's level. Nor should they be, they're young. Tarryn Thomas has had a horrific start to the year and Serong has just been going average. If Fritsch had of been playing forward his whole career and not spent the first few years in the backline then I'm sure he would've had a couple of the 40 goal seasons next to his name before last years 59.

- To capture Fritsch's whole career, he would've been worth a top 5 pick. He's only in his 5th year because he was a mature aged recruit. He's been great from day 1, he's never missed a game basically, highly durable, and he's now our most dangerous forward. Interestingly, he was taken in the same draft as Rayner lol.

If the 2017 draft was done again:
In my opinion. And I think Rayner has no business being in the top 21 conversation. 22-30 he can be in that mix but the top 21 have all done much more and have all carved out extremely important roles and have shown to be good AFL players.

1. Naughton
2. Brayshaw
3. Tim Kelly
4. Fritsch
5. Zac Bailey
6. Oscar Allen
7. Cerra
8. Davies-Uniacke
9. Liam Ryan
10. Balta
11. Wil Powell
12. Starcevich
13. Sam Taylor
14. Dylan Moore
15. Liam Baker
16. Tom McCartin
17. Mihocek
18. Spargo
19. Worpel
20. Brent Daniels
21. Petty
-------------------------------------
22. Miers
23. Switkowski
24. Ben Paton
25. Xerrie
26. Ainsworth
27. Paton
28. Jack Higgins
29. Roarke Smith
30. Rayner
31. Nick Holman

I wouldn't mind seeing you rank the top 30.

For reference, he knocks out Worpel, but solely based on recency bias. He's still miles behind on total value.
He knocks out Miers, Roarke Smith and arguably Will Powell. So that brings him up to 27.

You're kidding yourself if you think Rayner, a guy who has 'broken out' for a career high avg of 15.7 possessions belongs anywhere near that top 21.

But like I said in previous posts, he's coming from a long way back, so he needs to produced for 1 or 2 seasons before making any great strides.

 

[largebus]

Was one of their best today. He was great in the 2 other Lions games I've watched this year, all since this thread was posted.
Lions fans probably owe OP a beer.

 

[JasRulz63]

For reference, he knocks out Worpel, but solely based on recency bias. He's still miles behind on total value.
He knocks out Miers, Roarke Smith and arguably Will Powell. So that brings him up to 27.

You're kidding yourself if you think Rayner, a guy who has 'broken out' for a career high avg of 15.7 possessions belongs anywhere near that top 21.

But like I said in previous posts, he's coming from a long way back, so he needs to produced for 1 or 2 seasons before making any great strides.

I have no idea how Spargo made that top 21. Averaging 13 disposals, 0.4 goals and 2 tackles (1 tackle inside 50) this year.

 

[danster168]

I have no idea how Spargo made that top 21. Averaging 13 disposals, 0.4 goals and 2 tackles (1 tackle inside 50) this year.

it's not based on this year...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

what on earth are you talking about? Spargo is a forward pocket not a midfielder...? Please address this oversight in your next reply. Also, weakened midfield? We're fully stocked in there. No injuries. No idea what you're on about.

Also, of course it's a rolling ranking. How could it possibly not be? My ranking of Rayner hasn't changed greatly.

Wait, wot? Spargo you rate higher than Raynor still when Rayner has put together this comparative season off an ACL injury with a very sharp looking improvement curve beginning to kick right in. You would seriously take Spargo before Rayner right now? Fmd Dan, I didn’t realise you were that far off track with things. Based on exactly what lack of reason do you believe Spargo, an average bit part forward, is a better player than rising mid-forward star Rayner?

Rayner is a contested beast who is showing huge promise in the midfield while at the same time substantially outstripping Spargo for impact on the scoreboard through goals, behinds, and goal assists. And you have Spargo worth pick 18 and Rayner worth pick 27….get back to that drawing board dan, get some advice from people who know what the f*ck they are doing, and get back here with something a lot more sensible than that or you will destroy what remains of your deplorable reputation as a judge of football talent.

 

[danster168]

Wait, wot? Spargo you rate higher than Raynor still when Rayner has put together this comparative season off an ACL injury with a very sharp looking improvement curve beginning to kick right in. You would seriously take Spargo before Rayner right now? Fmd Dan, I didn’t realise you were that far off track with things. Based on exactly what lack of reason do you believe Spargo, an average bit part forward, is a better player than rising mid-forward star Rayner?

Rayner is a contested beast who is showing huge promise in the midfield while at the same time hugely outstripping Spargo for impact on the scoreboard through goals, behinds, and goal assists. And you have Spargo worth pick 18 and Rayner worth pick 27….get back to that drawing board dan, get some advice from people who know what the f*ck they are doing, and get back here with something a lot more sensible than that or you will destroy what remains of your deplorable reputation as a judge of football talent.

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Rayners 8 semi decent games don't trump spargo's 60 games. You focus too much on this season. Total value so far spargo has him covered. Like I've said many times, Rayner needs 1-2 seasons of good football to shoot up my rankings due to his very slow start. You don't make that up ground with 12 games of 15.7 touches a game.lol.

And for someone who spends so much time in the middle and gets prime CBA's, his ability to find the football is not good. a big weakness of his game. 15.7 touches with probably 15 cba's a game. gross.

Don't use the 'competitive beast' term on Rayner. Because if we apply it to him, we apply it to everyone. Tom Sparrow gets less opportunities than Rayner and even Sparrow gets 17.4 touches per game. And that's with Oliver and Petracca in there. So yeah, let me know when he actually polls a single coaches vote.

Note sure why you used the Mark Neeld reference. I'd back any afl coach over anyone on Bigfooty.

On another note, do you remember when you tried to claim that 6 goals in a grand final was easy? lol. those were the days.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Rayners 8 semi decent games don't trump spargo's 60 games. You focus too much on this season. Total value so far spargo has him covered. Like I've said many times, Rayner needs 1-2 seasons of good football to shoot up my rankings due to his very slow start. You don't make that up ground with 12 games of 15.7 touches a game.lol.

And for someone who spends so much time in the middle and gets prime CBA's, his ability to find the football is not good. a big weakness of his game. 15.7 touches with probably 15 cba's a game. gross.

Don't use the 'competitive beast' term on Rayner. Because if we apply it to him, we apply it to everyone. Tom Sparrow gets less opportunities than Rayner and even Sparrow gets 17.4 touches per game. And that's with Oliver and Petracca in there. So yeah, let me know when he actually polls a single coaches vote.

Note sure why you used the Mark Neeld reference. I'd back any afl coach over anyone on Bigfooty.

On another note, do you remember when you tried to claim that 6 goals in a grand final was easy? lol. those were the days.

There you go again Dan, misquoting things you don’t understand….

I have never believed 6 goals in a Grand Final is easy. I have always believed 6 easy goals in a Grand Final is easy though, that is why they are called easy goals….

Rayner "15 CBA’s per game” as you put it….given Rayner has attended less than 27% of Brisbane’s centre bounces this season, that would mean Brisbane games average 56 centre bounces. Which would require at least 52 goals per game. After an exhaustive search, I could not find any Brisbane game with 52 goals. What he actually attends is 8 centre bounces average per match in 2022. With, you know, 7 other dudes deemed by their respective clubs to be the best available to extract the ball from this most important contest…..so for a novice his 0.8 centre clearances per match is very decent. And when one considers the actual quality of his centre clearances which has commentators falling over themselves to praise him….but of course you wouldn’t consider such things dan.

Tom Sparrow. . The 0.3 goals + goal assists per match Tom Sparrow who has less contested possessions than Rayner, you mean that Tom Sparrow? If so, . Jesus f*cking wept for you dan.

 

[JasRulz63]

it's not based on this year...

Their averages for their respective careers are either close to the same or slightly in Rayner's favour. Rayner was playing almost exclusively forward before this year too.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Rayners 8 semi decent games don't trump spargo's 60 games. You focus too much on this season. Total value so far spargo has him covered. Like I've said many times, Rayner needs 1-2 seasons of good football to shoot up my rankings due to his very slow start. You don't make that up ground with 12 games of 15.7 touches a game.lol.

And for someone who spends so much time in the middle and gets prime CBA's, his ability to find the football is not good. a big weakness of his game. 15.7 touches with probably 15 cba's a game. gross.

Don't use the 'competitive beast' term on Rayner. Because if we apply it to him, we apply it to everyone. Tom Sparrow gets less opportunities than Rayner and even Sparrow gets 17.4 touches per game. And that's with Oliver and Petracca in there. So yeah, let me know when he actually polls a single coaches vote.

Note sure why you used the Mark Neeld reference. I'd back any afl coach over anyone on Bigfooty.

On another note, do you remember when you tried to claim that 6 goals in a grand final was easy? lol. those were the days.

 

[danster168]

Their averages for their respective careers are either close to the same or slightly in Rayner's favour. Rayner was playing almost exclusively forward before this year too.

Yeah, statistic wise. Spargo is a pressure forward in a premiership team. Rayner is an unfit plodder. This is what happens when you get caught up in stats.

 

[Elixuh]

Yeah, statistic wise. Spargo is a pressure forward in a premiership team. Rayner is an unfit plodder. This is what happens when you get caught up in stats.

I know you’re probably tired after posting in this thread until 3.46am, but no need for name calling.

 

[danster168]

I know you’re probably tired after posting in this thread until 3.46am, but no need for name calling.

Where do you think Rayner finishes in your BnF this year? Honest question.

 

[Elixuh]

Where do you think Rayner finishes in your BnF this year? Honest question.

Not sure I would have to think about it. I’ll meet you back here at 3am tomorrow morning to discuss.

 

[danster168]

Not sure I would have to think about it. I’ll meet you back here at 3am tomorrow morning to discuss.

No need to get personal

 

[KissKiss]

Where do you think Rayner finishes in your BnF this year? Honest question.

While probably no where near accurate I looked at the Brisbane board player of year voting (top 5 polled players get votes each week) to get a guide. He started slow but last few weeks has been in the votes a fair bit (often picking up 3rd best or there abouts). No real shame in being behind someone like Neale most weeks when he is in Brownlow contention form.

At the moment I'd say Rayner would be somewhere top 5-10. If he keeps going like he has last few weeks I think he could challenge top 5. Playing consistent games is I think important for our BnF but he is probably not going to push out Neale and McCluggage

 

[Elixuh]

No need to get personal

Is posting on bigfooty at 3am very personal to you is it.