Cam Rayner

[danster168]

Out of interest where would you rate Zac Bailey now? he was originally pick 15 in the 2017 AFL Draft. Obviously going a lot better than Rayner.

I rate Bailey highly. top 5 pick for me.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I rate Bailey highly. top 5 pick for me.

danster168 isn’t a Brisbane Lions hater after all, it’s a miracle on Earth

 

[iBeng]

danster168 isn’t a Brisbane Lions hater after all, it’s a miracle on Earth

Only because he wants him at the Dee's!

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Only because he wants him at the Dee's!

In that case, you complete user danster168

 

[danster168]

danster168 isn’t a Brisbane Lions hater after all, it’s a miracle on Earth

lol. I never have been. I'm impartial ahaha

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Edit - By the end of his fifth AFL season, Jack Watts had 7 Brownlow votes, Raynor heading into this season on 5.......

How many brownlow votes did Petracca have at the end of his fifth season?

 

[My Tilly]

Probably the worst game of any player I have seen for many years last weekend for Rayner. Even when moved into the center, he barely chased and looked completely disinterested.
It was great to see Cameron give him a cheapie in the goal square as he knew he was struggling.

Those games happen. Been good so far and I would expect him to bounce back with a very solid performance on Sunday.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Ah he's come out of the woods like the unabomber checking his weekly mail.

I can sense in the tone of your post that you're a little deflated. And rightly so. You've deflected to 2023, wise move. I'm sure you'll come back whenever it suits you Rayner plays a serviceable game though

Your reference to Rayner's hypothetical ceiling is irrelevant. When we started this whole draft position discussion, we were talking about total value, not who reaches the highest heights. And at this stage Spargo is still very much ahead of Rayner in total value. When Spargo has a quiet game, it's no big deal he's a pressure forward with limited opportunities. But when Rayner plays a juicy inside mid role with plenty of centre bounce attendances and has a trash game like he did on the weekend he is taking away the opportunity for someone else to actually go in there and impact the game.
i'm not sure your obsession with the definition of marquee. Fritsch was 2nd in norm smith voting after kicking the most goals in a granny for 20 years and is top 10 in the afl for goals for 2 years straight. I'm more than happy with where he is at, marquee or not.

So we can sum out and say that Rayner is poor defensively. Vision was shown of him last week when our midfield pantsed your midfield. And we can sum up that he struggled to find the ball. At least consistently. 15 touches is gross with the amount of opportunities he gets.

It's good that you now at least acknowledge that brisbane stuffed the pick up. Pick 1, now pick 10. Next minute it'll be 24 (where i have him).

Spargo ahead of Rayner? On what basis? We have previously compared their careers and Rayner is clearly ahead despite missing a whole season with an ACL.

Nobody can say at this stage Brisbane stuffed up taking Rayner at pick 1 any more than any team does by not getting the best player in the draft with the first pick. Which happens exactly how often?

It is all to be told with Rayner, he is short of his prime, and if he starts tearing finals apart over the next 7-8 years nothing he has done to this point will count against his overall value as a draft selection.

Just because you like to keep a running score of what players have done over the first third of their AFL careers does not make this a sound way to judge the value of a player. Plenty of posters on this thread have said it is too early to reliably judge, and moreso because Rayner is off an ACL injury. The last two weeks would only be a real concern if they were typical of Rayner’s performances this season. But they are not, he has clearly shown enough to impress a lot of observers in a good run of performances over a couple of months. You and I would have no idea why his last two weeks have been down on previous form. So it is a bit early for you to be deliriously celebrating Rayner’s demise yet Dan my foolish friend.

 

[danster168]

Spargo ahead of Rayner? On what basis? We have previously compared their careers and Rayner is clearly ahead despite missing a whole season with an ACL.

Nobody can say at this stage Brisbane stuffed up taking Rayner at pick 1 any more than any team does by not getting the best player in the draft with the first pick. Which happens exactly how often?

It is all to be told with Rayner, he is short of his prime, and if he starts tearing finals apart over the next 7-8 years nothing he has done to this point will count against his overall value as a draft selection.

Just because you like to keep a running score of what players have done over the first third of their AFL careers does not make this a sound way to judge the value of a player. Plenty of posters on this thread have said it is too early to reliably judge, and moreso because Rayner is off an ACL injury. The last two weeks would only be a real concern if they were typical of Rayner’s performances this season. But they are not, he has clearly shown enough to impress a lot of observers in a good run of performances over a couple of months. You and I would have no idea why his last two weeks have been down on previous form. So it is a bit early for you to be deliriously celebrating Rayner’s demise yet Dan my foolish friend.

Spargo ahead of Rayner? On what basis? We have previously compared their careers and Rayner is clearly ahead despite missing a whole season with an ACL.

Nobody can say at this stage Brisbane stuffed up taking Rayner at pick 1 any more than any team does by not getting the best player in the draft with the first pick. Which happens exactly how often?

It is all to be told with Rayner, he is short of his prime, and if he starts tearing finals apart over the next 7-8 years nothing he has done to this point will count against his overall value as a draft selection.

Just because you like to keep a running score of what players have done over the first third of their AFL careers does not make this a sound way to judge the value of a player. Plenty of posters on this thread have said it is too early to reliably judge, and moreso because Rayner is off an ACL injury. The last two weeks would only be a real concern if they were typical of Rayner’s performances this season. But they are not, he has clearly shown enough to impress a lot of observers in a good run of performances over a couple of months. You and I would have no idea why his last two weeks have been down on previous form. So it is a bit early for you to be deliriously celebrating Rayner’s demise yet Dan my foolish friend.

Yes Spargo is ahead. He is a pressure fwd that plays his role every week. He doesn't play for stats. its to tackle and harrass. He came 13th in our best and fairest in our premiership year. That means he is rated highly internally for his work. That was ahead of Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes etc. We had 5 All-Australians so to come 13th is a good effort. Theres no way Rayner sniffs our top 25. Number 1- he wouldn't even make our midfield and 2- he applies no defensive pressure if played up forward.

Spargo has produced on the big stage. He had a quiet grand final but still kicked our opening goal and set up a few goals and in the prelim he had 18 touches, 8 marks and 2 goals. All whilst rayner was doing diddly squat.

Every week that Rayner gets given midfield time and gets 8 possessions or 12 or 14 etc. he is failing at his role. if spargo was given the juicy midfield role then he could average 20 touches in his sleep. As could most players that are given his midfield opportunities. But spargo plays his fwd pressure role, allowing guns like Oliver and Petracca to go and do their thing.

Rayner isn't down on form. This is just who he is. He's inconsistent and unreliable and his ACL excuse is wearing thin. When he was playing better you weren't using it as an excuse but now you are.
Your said Rayner is pick 10 in this draft, i've said 24. And each week its looking more and more likely that my number is the far more accurate one. Think about how far behind Rayner is than Fritsch. lol.

 

[JasRulz63]

Yes Spargo is ahead. He is a pressure fwd that plays his role every week. He doesn't play for stats. its to tackle and harrass. He came 13th in our best and fairest in our premiership year. That means he is rated highly internally for his work. That was ahead of Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes etc. We had 5 All-Australians so to come 13th is a good effort. Theres no way Rayner sniffs our top 25. Number 1- he wouldn't even make our midfield and 2- he applies no defensive pressure if played up forward.

Charlie Spargo
Tackles - 2.5
Tackles inside 50 - 1.1
Pressure acts - 11.2

Cam Rayner
Tackles - 2.1
Tackles inside 50 - 0.3
Pressure acts - 13.5

Both players are below average in pressure acts for their respective positions. Except your saying pressure forward is Spargo's role...

Spargo has produced on the big stage. He had a quiet grand final but still kicked our opening goal and set up a few goals and in the prelim he had 18 touches, 8 marks and 2 goals. All whilst rayner was doing diddly squat.

Pretty hard to do more than diddly squat when you're recovering from an ACL and therefore not playing.

Every week that Rayner gets given midfield time and gets 8 possessions or 12 or 14 etc. he is failing at his role. if spargo was given the juicy midfield role then he could average 20 touches in his sleep. As could most players that are given his midfield opportunities. But spargo plays his fwd pressure role, allowing guns like Oliver and Petracca to go and do their thing.

The forward pressure role where he's below average in pressure acts for a forward.

Didn't Spargo spend most of the game on a wing against Fremantle and racked up a total 13 disposals? Someone must've forgotten to wake him up for this game.

 

[danster168]

Charlie Spargo
Tackles - 2.5
Tackles inside 50 - 1.1
Pressure acts - 11.2

Cam Rayner
Tackles - 2.1
Tackles inside 50 - 0.3
Pressure acts - 13.5

Both players are below average in pressure acts for their respective positions. Except your saying pressure forward is Spargo's role...



Pretty hard to do more than diddly squat when you're recovering from an ACL and therefore not playing.




The forward pressure role where he's below average in pressure acts for a forward.

Didn't Spargo spend most of the game on a wing against Fremantle and racked up a total 13 disposals? Someone must've forgotten to wake him up for this game.

He came 13th in our best and fairest. That speaks for itself.

And no, spargo doesn't play wing. And why on earth would you even enter in that debate when Rayner had midfield time and 9 cba's yet only 9 possessions for the game. LOL.

 

[JasRulz63]

He came 13th in our best and fairest. That speaks for itself.

And no, spargo doesn't play wing. And why on earth would you even enter in that debate when Rayner had midfield time and 9 cba's yet only 9 possessions for the game. LOL.

I feel like you're struggling with proving a point when you're bringing up who finishes 13th in a best and fairest count, regardless of the club.

 

[M Malice]

Wake me in 2025.

 

[Coops93]

I feel like you're struggling with proving a point when you're bringing up who finishes 13th in a best and fairest count, regardless of the club.

I think he proved the point that Spargo is bang average which is not the point he was trying to make I don't think.

 

[danster168]

I feel like you're struggling with proving a point when you're bringing up who finishes 13th in a best and fairest count, regardless of the club.

why? 13th in a bnf isn't bad in a premiership team. Where is Rayner with Brisbane atm? Neale, Mccluggage, C.Cameron, Zorko, Bailey, Starcevich, Rich, Mcinerney, Coleman, Lyons, Berry, H.Andrews, Mccarthy, Marcus Adams, Mcstay, Answerth. So AT BEST, Rayner is 16th in a side that is nowhere near the level of Melbourne from last year. So Spargo to finish 13th last season is a much higher level that Rayner has yet to reach.

 

[danster168]

I think he proved the point that Spargo is bang average which is not the point he was trying to make I don't think.

It is the point. Spargo is just a serviceable role player. Which just goes to show that Rayner hasn't even got to average level yet. 13th in a premiership team is about 8th in a normal run of the mill team though.

 

[HBFlanker]

Essendon threw the kitchen sink at him at the end of 2019. His family are all huge Essendon and hes a local Calder lad. Thats from the family themselves.

I understand it got very close but obviously decided against the move in the end.

Would have had to offer a top 10 pick at that stage.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He came 13th in our best and fairest. That speaks for itself.

And no, spargo doesn't play wing. And why on earth would you even enter in that debate when Rayner had midfield time and 9 cba's yet only 9 possessions for the game. LOL.

Spargo came 13th of 10 players to have played every game in an award that gives players a mark out of 10 for each game and simply adds all their marks together. 13th out of 10 takes some doing danster.

Spargo was the 5th highest rated forward in the 2021 Truscott Medal behind Neal-Bullen, McDonald, Pickett and Fritsch, not exactly superstars. And we must note that the other Premiership forward in Brown played just 13 games meaning he had no chance of beating Spargo. So it is ridiculous to laud Spargo’s 13th placed finish in this award as anything better than a competent player fulfilling his role and playing in every game.

You are all over the place danster. Compose yourself friend. Rayner has had 2 quiet games. For all we know he could be carrying a knock or a niggle. Or he could just be tiring. You don’t need to splooge every time he has a quiet game. Even the best players have those.

 

[danster168]

Spargo came 13th of 10 players to have played every game in an award that gives players a mark out of 10 for each game and simply adds all their marks together. 13th out of 10 takes some doing danster.

Spargo was the 5th highest rated forward in the 2021 Truscott Medal behind Neal-Bullen, McDonald, Pickett and Fritsch, not exactly superstars. And we must note that the other Premiership forward in Brown played just 13 games meaning he had no chance of beating Spargo. So it is ridiculous to laud Spargo’s 13th placed finish in this award as anything better than a competent player fulfilling his role and playing in every game.

You are all over the place danster. Compose yourself friend. Rayner has had 2 quiet games. For all we know he could be carrying a knock or a niggle. Or he could just be tiring. You don’t need to splooge every time he has a quiet game. Even the best players have those.

dude, you're consistent underrating of fritsch is tiring. 59 goals last year and in the top 10 this year. one of the first non key forwards too. When you're kicking 6 in a granny, you're a good player mate.

Pickett and ANB are some of the highest pressure players in the AFL. thats why theyre rated highly internally. Since when does a player have to be a superstar?

Do you ever wonder everytime you play us we embarrass you? its because we actually have decent players in our team. And spargo, pickett, fritsch and ANB walk comfortably into your starting 18.

Rayner has been a poor player for 4 years. he doesnt have the credits in the bank to deserve this 'he could be injured' nonsense.

 

[danster168]

lol. ANB and Pickett number 1 and 2 in the entire AFL for tackles inside 50m last year. Man, do some research before posting.

Maybe Rayner will come good when he's 28 or something and he'll have about 10 years of total value to catch up on which he won't be able to do in a few seasons.

Also, if Rayner kicks 6 in a grand final am i then able to try and trivialise his performance the way you did with fritsch? laughable.

 

[iameviljez]

To be fair to the Lions, that entire draft has a very 2003-y smell about it - Freo made out like bandits with Cerra and Brayshaw, everyone else got very very little.

 

[danster168]

To be fair to the Lions, that entire draft has a very 2003-y smell about it - Freo made out like bandits with Cerra and Brayshaw, everyone else got very very little.

Nah they got Rayner. The next petracca lol.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

dude, you're consistent underrating of fritsch is tiring. 59 goals last year and in the top 10 this year. one of the first non key forwards too. When you're kicking 6 in a granny, you're a good player mate.

Pickett and ANB are some of the highest pressure players in the AFL. thats why theyre rated highly internally. Since when does a player have to be a superstar?

Do you ever wonder everytime you play us we embarrass you? its because we actually have decent players in our team. And spargo, pickett, fritsch and ANB walk comfortably into your starting 18.

Rayner has been a poor player for 4 years. he doesnt have the credits in the bank to deserve this 'he could be injured' nonsense.

Lol you have beaten us the last two times you played us by a total of 56 points, averaging 28 points. We beat you 4 times running before that by a minimum of 27 points. But Melbourne being a good team now or Neal-Bullen and Pickett accumulating the most and second most inside 50 tackles in at least 3 extra games than most players got to play does not somehow make Spargo more valuable than Cam Rayner. Take your throbbing Melbourne sex toy out of your ginger and stop making a fool of yourself Dan.

Rayner cannot have been a poor player for 4 years, he is only half way through his 4th season now. He is averaging almost as many contested possessions this season as your two arch receivers Fritsch and Spargo do between them.

 

[Toump Ass]

Charlie Spargo

13

Charlie Spargo

Age

26

Ht

172cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.7

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.3

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.6

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

's consistent standard over Cam Rayner's maybe-i'll-show-up-maybe-I-wont flakeyness, even if he occasionally plays to a higher level, every single day of the week.

 

[Elixuh]

I think he proved the point that Spargo is bang average which is not the point he was trying to make I don't think.

He is the ultimate low altitude flyer.